No-chill temp into keg?

[yarrr]

I plan to no chill in a corny for the 1st time this Sat. What clean up issues did you experience? I plan to transfer from my brew kettle to my corny as soon as the boil is complete, then transfer to fermenter the next day & pitch. Do you have any tips? Thanks

I've done exactly the same routine with no problems, and really no cleanup issues. I siphoned into primary though, so the corny dip tubes were never in use.

One of the main benefits of no chill for me is creating real wort starters. Just fill up the flask before filling the corny and pitch the starter a few days later.

 

[Bugaboo]

The clean up issue would be significant amounts of break material in the corny. More than if you chill and leave trub in BK.

Real wort starters are definitely a plus. Mainly because I hate decanting normal starters. Never think the yeast flocculates enough, so I'm concerned about skewing my yeast population towards cells that drop out of solution quicker.

I used to nochill and primary in same keg and then transfer under pressure to next keg which was for secondary and serving. I would cold crash and carbonate the 2nd keg after fermentation was complete and then simply pull off the trub left in the first pint of beer. My thinking with this was to only expose the wort/beer to air when I pitched otherwise everything was under pressure or airlocked. Looked had into closed pressure fermentation, but never really did it.

 

[Budzu]

Earlier in this thread there was discussion of sankey's. This is a great way to "no-chill", or rather, extended slow chill.

I love doing this, I do it for yeast starters for a 2 bbl batch. I make 4 gallon all-grain pilsner mash, hop it just a bit, boil for 20 minutes, and right at flame out I dump it all into one of these 1/6 bbl sankey kegs. The spear is removed and I seal it up tight as I can with a 2" tri-clamp endcap and oring. I flip it over while piping hot to test for leaks, then set it on the front porch for the night. The next day, I pop the lid (it is always under considerable vacuum, which makes me feel confident of its sanitary condition) pitch the yeast from a 2 liter starter or vial/smackpack and put it on a stir plate for a few days at room temp. This is how I culture all my yeast for my pub, McHale's Brewhouse.

It is pretty much a big-ass mason jar. I've never attempted making an actual hoppy beer this way, but I've brewed a high gravity belgian and it came out great.

I don't think anyone should worry about the keg being damaged in anyway. Its much better suited to no-chill than the corny keg as the corny cannot hold vacuum (without special adaption). After pitching yeast you can just fit a sankey fermenter kit from brewer's hardware or st pats of texas.

 

[yarrr]

I used to nochill and primary in same keg and then transfer under pressure to next keg which was for secondary and serving. I would cold crash and carbonate the 2nd keg after fermentation was complete and then simply pull off the trub left in the first pint of beer.

And why don't you do this anymore? Just the cleanup issues or something else?

 

[Bugaboo]

Basically I spent the money on a CFC and added the ability to whirlpool in my BK finally. Cleaning the primary keg is not something I miss. The diptube would clog a transfer sometimes. But if you siphon to a carboy like you do I don't see that being an issue. At the time I was seeing if I could do most things without exposing anything to air. Now I don't think I care about that. Just keep siphoning practices sanitary.

I wish I started with sankes. Just got my first one recently. A pony keg would be great for nochill 5 gal. I've fermented my last two 10 gal batches in a 13 gal rogue keg and just soaked it with PBW for a day with good results.

 

[Bugaboo]

Here's a queston. Since cornys don't hold vaccuum, couldn't you just turn them upside down while chilling and the weight of the wort would hold the lid shut and the air would just condense at the top?

 

[dukeredhair]

* Bump *

"Here's a queston. Since cornys don't hold vaccuum, couldn't you just turn them upside down while chilling and the weight of the wort would hold the lid shut and the air would just condense at the top?"

I just read through this whole thread and my experience will hing on this question above?
Anyone have an answer for this? or have tried it? I would think that it could work but it would bea ridiculous shame if it didn't and beer leaked out all over the floor.

 

[Bobby_M]

Just hook up your co2 at 2 psi.

 

[Bugaboo]

They wont leak upside down. I soak my upside down when I ferment in them because it takes less water to cover the krausen line that way.

Think boiling hot air/steam would do anything to a gas quick connect?

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm pretty sure they'll still pull air in as a vacuum gets created.

 

[Bugaboo]

Now we need someone to actually do it. I doubt any beer would be lost. Wonder if the time where the air is pulled in is while the beer would still be hot enough to kill off any contaminates.

 

[Lennie]

The liquid shrinks as it cools so its pulling in air the whole time its cooling, including the time its warm but not hot. I'd lay something over the lid like a clean dishtowel soaked in starsan.

And I'm with Bobby, I think a cornie upside down will still leak because the vacuum will pull the lid in. Just pressurize the keg with CO2 to counter most/all of the vacuum.

Two questions. First, when do you aerate/oxygenate with no-chill? And two what is FTW?

I bought a plastic bottle to try no-chill but haven't gotten around to it yet. My intent is to use this for low-hopped styles so the hopping schedule is a moot issue. I already do some pressurized ferments in cornies and a conical.

 

[wyzazz]

Two questions. First, when do you aerate/oxygenate with no-chill? And two what is FTW?

Aerate/Oxygenate right before you pitch your yeast.

For The Win!

 

[Bugaboo]

This is all in the fun of analysing because the sanitized towel and co2 would work, but I still don't think the cooling would happen at a constant rate. Fast at the beginning, then a lull, and then a steadier rate. It's not like a cfc were cold water is constantly be supplied. The ambient air will heat up within a certain radius from the corny and wont recover for a while after. There's got be a time where the strength of the lid and the weight of the wort is stronger than the vaccuum

Should just boil some water and throw it in corny and see if theres any loss. Would have to make sure everything is completely dry on the outside of the keg and put a towel down.

 

[CS223]

This is all in the fun of analysing because the sanitized towel and co2 would work, but I still don't think the cooling would happen at a constant rate. Fast at the beginning, then a lull, and then a steadier rate. It's not like a cfc were cold water is constantly be supplied. The ambient air will heat up within a certain radius from the corny and wont recover for a while after. There's got be a time where the strength of the lid and the weight of the wort is stronger than the vaccuum

Should just boil some water and throw it in corny and see if theres any loss. Would have to make sure everything is completely dry on the outside of the keg and put a towel down.

For some reason this comes to mind.....

http://youtu.be/Uy-SN5j1ogk

 

[CS223]

What if you modified a corny lid with a barb & hose for an aeration stone, on the outside barb you attach your filter. Fill your corny with hot wort, put the lid in place. As it cooled down, it would self aerate or would this cause hot side aeration?

Alternately if you could get a good lid seal, you could use a valve with the aeration stone and once the wort cooled, you could open the valve and use the vacuum to aerate the wort before pitching.

 

[Swifty]

I'm going to test no chilling right into a fermenting bucket and see if it's going to melt it down.. I never have paid much attention to the finishing boil point. Have any of you observed finished boil temps much higher than 100C/212F?

I would not be suprized to find that it was higher but, don't expect much higher.

 

[Budzu]

I'm going to test no chilling right into a fermenting bucket and see if it's going to melt it down.. I never have paid much attention to the finishing boil point. Have any of you observed finished boil temps much higher than 100C/212F?

I would not be suprized to find that it was higher but, don't expect much higher.

Uck, I wouldn't do that. Just because it doesn't melt outright doesn't mean flavors aren't coming out of the plastic.

 

[Swifty]

You raise a great point. I don't know either but I'll report back on both. I don't know if its a blessing or a curse but, my wife has a better pallet than I so ill trick her into the Pepsi challenge too.

 

[Lennie]

I don't think food grade HDPE has plasticizers in it and the polymer itself isn't going to de-polymerize. It'll just get real bendy and possibly lose shape. I'd use secondary containment just in case.

 

[Bugaboo]

Uck, I wouldn't do that. Just because it doesn't melt outright doesn't mean flavors aren't coming out of the plastic.

+1 on that. I believe HDPE is only rated to 180. I would let my wort cool to 180 before moving to my fermenter when I was using Winpacks, which are HDPE.

P.S. I store my grain in my winpaks now. Seals up nice. Hard to get the grain in them. Easy to get out tho.

 

[ghpeel]

Regarding No-Chilling with Cornies, whats the group's opinion of turning the keg over on its side and/or top a few times when the wort is first poured in? That step is necessary in a No Chill HDPE tank, so I'm assuming it's necessary for the Corny too, but I thought I'd ask those whom have done it before.

I just had a plastic tank or maybe it's cap go bad on me, resulting in two messed up batches. The second one made the tank swell like a tick 2 days after being sealed up. I've got a spare corny that can't fit into my serving fridge, and I've love to use metal instead of plastic for my No Chills.

 

[djt17]

I no chill in cornys; hit with a little gas to insure it is sealed & then roll a few times on the floor. So far, so good.

 

[Bugaboo]

I turned it upside down and left it while I finished cleaning everything, then put it rightside up for the rest of the cooling.

 

[Bugaboo]

Just got a brewhemoth and gonna no chill a kolsch for my first batch. Think I'll sanitize before filling this thing because it's so big. I'd just wash and rinse the cornys. Bought the spunding valve attachment.

You guys think I should leave the spunding valve on while it cools and set it to say 20 psi or just cap my top 1.5" hole and put the spunding valve on after every thing is cool?