no chill methods, Hedpak containers and plastic buckets.

[bernardsmith]

If the Australians are correct then non chill brewing is a possible route to take to avoid water wastage and to allow a single brew day bleed into two days... Looks like those who advocate non chill brewing also advocate the use of Hedpak plastic cases. I own plastic bucket fermenters (2 gallon and 6) . These food grade plastics seem to be heat resistant to well above the temperature of the boiling wort. Is there a greater likelihood of contamination using these buckets than using a Hedpak? As a wine maker I tend to use K-meta to sanitize my tools and equipment and the SO2 fumes (the fumes not just the liquid) are powerful enough to sanitize corks. Has anyone who uses a non chill approach used buckets with lids and airlocks to cool (not chill) their wort overnight with positive results? Thanks

 

[LovesIPA]

If I were going to do a no-chill brew, I would just leave it in the kettle and rack it to the fermenter the next day.

I wonder what effect the extended period of time the beer remains at near-boiling temps on late hop additions? Would you end up with less aroma and flavor?

 

[RM-MN]

The reason that the Aussies use the Hedpak containers is that sometimes they store the wort for extended periods and for that you need all the air out. You can't do that with a plastic bucket. You can do the no chill in your plastic bucket if you intend to pitch the yeast as soon as the wort cools to pitching temperature.

 

[bernardsmith]

Interesting thought. The question I have with leaving the wort in the kettle is that the kettle is not sealed and so can offer opportunities for bacterial and fungal contamination because as the wort cools the pressure inside the container will drop and the dropped pressure will tend to suck the outside in, I am guessing the bucket being airtight will deform and buckle (I have yet to try this with boiling water - but i believe the Hedpaks deform) but I suspect that even deformed, the bucket will not suck in air (note to self- that means that I need to block the hole grommetted hole that holds the airlock with some kind of cap).

As for the extended time that hops are in the boiling water, I am not sure they are. I remove the hop bag before I cool the kettle just now, and add aroma hops to the fermenting wort. There are no hops being cooled. The hop flavors are in the water not the hops...

 

[bernardsmith]

The reason that the Aussies use the Hedpak containers is that sometimes they store the wort for extended periods and for that you need all the air out. You can't do that with a plastic bucket. You can do the no chill in your plastic bucket if you intend to pitch the yeast as soon as the wort cools to pitching temperature.

My thought was to mash and boil in the evening and pitch the yeast the next morning. I was not planning on storing cooled wort in the bucket for more than a few hours - perhaps 8-12 hours at most.

 

[LovesIPA]

I would be worried about creasing the plastic buckets when they deform. I'd think that after a few cycles they might begin to weaken and possibly leak.

I don't think having some small amounts of contamination enter the kettle is a disaster. After all, a brewer's job isn't to sterilize, only to sanitize. As long as we keep the majority of contaminants out and give the yeast a reasonably clean slate to work with, we can make good beer. 100% sterilization isn't our goal.

You can remove the hop bag if you want, but the flavor, aroma, and bitterness is derived from the oils contained in the hop flowers. Once they sit in boiling water for a few minutes, those oils are extracted and dissolved in the wort. You can remove the hops after that but the oils remain behind.

 

[RM-MN]

I used a bucket with a 3 piece airlock. I put just enough starsan solution in it to make a seal but not enough to allow it to be sucked back in when the pressure drops. My thought was that I was going to get air in but any nasties would have to get through the starsan solution. I left the bucket outside to cool and I don't think the air there is especially contaminated.

 

[rekoob]

I used a bucket with a 3 piece airlock. I put just enough starsan solution in it to make a seal but not enough to allow it to be sucked back in when the pressure drops. My thought was that I was going to get air in but any nasties would have to get through the starsan solution. I left the bucket outside to cool and I don't think the air there is especially contaminated.

Not a bad idea, I think the "S" type airlock can hold a little more than the three piece airlock. Not positive on this but if I recall correctly or maybe it's just a smaller area and appears to be more star san. In any case I think the S-type airlock keeps more liquid in the airlock without it getting sucked back into the fermenter.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you use a bucket and lid, you could cover the grommet hole with a small clean rag well-soaked in Starsan. I squeeze it out so it's wet but not dripping. I think it makes for a decent temporary airlock. I've been using the "rag airlock" when cold crashing buckets.

Most bucket lids don't seal well along the rim so you may get some air infiltration from there. I always keep that area well sanitized and wrapped in Starsan'ed plastic wrap when cold crashing.

From what I understand many no-chill containers are flexible bladders (cubes), sealed with a gasketed screw lid, which can collapse a bit when being chilled. That's probably the best way to keep bugs out.

Letting hops sit in a hot kettle after flameout is technically a "hop stand" and is used intentionally to extract substantial aroma and flavor, until it drops to around 150-160°F or even below, also depending on time.

 

[boydster]

For no-chill, you have to account for extra utilization due to the extra time the wort spends above 170° (or is it 180°, I can't remember offhand) where the alpha acids can still be isomerized. You also need to account for late additions having more time at elevated temps and cooking away some of the oils you are trying to keep.

In both cases, you simply add the hops a little later than you would for a quick chill. You have to experiment a bit to find what works for you, but for me I add most of my hops 10-15 minutes later. I also don't add hopstand hops until the wort gets below 175°.

I usually chill overnight in my kettle. I put the sanitized lid on and wrap it with a few layers of plastic wrap. Then the next morning transfer to fermenter and pitch yeast. If you're the you're that likes to leave the cold break behind, you'll be able to do that pretty easily as it has plenty of time to form and settle.

 

[bernardsmith]

... If you're the you're that likes to leave the cold break behind, you'll be able to do that pretty easily as it has plenty of time to form and settle.

Boydster, Very useful post. Thanks. The cold break occurs only because of the temperature reached and not because of the speed in the drop of the temperature? So even a no chill approach will result in cold breaks?

 

[boydster]

Boydster, Very useful post. Thanks. The cold break occurs only because of the temperature reached and not because of the speed in the drop of the temperature? So even a no chill approach will result in cold breaks?

Correctomundo.

 

[dmar836]

Not to hijack but what is the benefit to doing this rather than getting it into the fermentor the same day?
Dave

 

[boydster]

For me, it makes my brew day a little shorter and easier. I use less water, less equipment, and once the flame goes out, I'm done for the day. I have glass carboys and plastic buckets. I can't transfer hot wort into the carboys, but sometimes I do transfer into a bucket for cooling. It just depends on what I need or have available. The only tradeoff is spending a few minutes the next day to aerate and pitch yeast, but that's really not a big deal.

 

[dmar836]

Makes sense. Thanks

 

[sladek]

From what I have read and heard from NO CHILL brewers...the hops in the NO CHILL bucket are equivalent to a 20 minute boil. So any hops additions at 20 minutes you add to the NO CHILL bucket and anything less than 20 minutes you add to FWH. Great article here...
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/06/06/australian-no-chill-brewing-technique-tested/

 

[jamina1]

This weekend we brewed an IPA and I poured it straight into the fermenter once it had gotten below 200 degrees. It sat there overnight until I could pitch the yeast.

I'm slightly worried about oxidation from the headspace, but honestly it seems to be going gangbusters now that I've added yeast and only time will tell.

If you have a CO2 tank, you can fill the headspace up until it cools as well. I might do that next time.

 

[jamina1]

From what I have read and heard from NO CHILL brewers...the hops in the NO CHILL bucket are equivalent to a 20 minute boil. So any hops additions at 20 minutes you add to the NO CHILL bucket and anything less than 20 minutes you add to FWH. Great article here...
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/06/06/australian-no-chill-brewing-technique-tested/

Can you elaborate more on the hop stuff here?

I'm a newb, but I understood FWH to be at the beginning of the boil? If that's the case, wouldn't that transfer all your aroma hops to become bittering hops and defeat the purpose of adding them late?

 

[bernardsmith]

From what I have read and heard from NO CHILL brewers...the hops in the NO CHILL bucket are equivalent to a 20 minute boil. So any hops additions at 20 minutes you add to the NO CHILL bucket and anything less than 20 minutes you add to FWH. Great article here...
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/06/06/australian-no-chill-brewing-technique-tested/

My ignorance here, but if no-chill methods increase the utilization of hops by 20 minutes and so would you not want to reduce the amount of time that they are in the boil - (your example of adding 20 minute additions to the no-chill bucket, rather than to the boil itself) , so why would you then add hops to the sparge ( isn't that what FWH means? http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/03/17/the-first-wort-hop-beer-brewing-techniques/ ) which would further add to the utilization of the hops- not reduce the amount of time in which they are boiled by 20 minutes? What am I missing?