No Carb IPA

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bratdmd

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Apparently, The Grand Ole' USA is without any credits associated with a zero-carb beer. Like we couldn't manage that! Especially we homebrewers. Low carb is easy, and hardly worth the effort. No-carb though, saddle up brewers. Tonight, I've brewed by first attempt at a no-carb IPA, heavy with hops, noble and peasant. Cause I brew what I like..Amen! Fermenter is bubbling like mad already, working off of a Corona Clone (for SWMBO) yeast cake and a starter(X2) of Nottingham. Of course, won't know the results for at least a month. And not willing to undergo laboratory testing to assure the no-carb status. Just hope it's drinkable. The point of this post, please submit recipes, or simply tips, that may accomplish this feat...(please read here a bow to the greats of this forum) ....the first USA-born no-carb beer. If any forum can do it, we can do it...like we did it yesterday and it's old news. I've made my effort, as a noob, only about 6 batches into this new religion, of yeast worship. So, I'm very much looking forward to your input. Just so you know, this request comes from real a sense of brewing Patriotism (from a country formed by a bunch of homebrewers), and appreciation, for all the knowledge this forum has imparted to me, a very grateful noob. :rockin:
 
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bratdmd

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Too simplistic. Not thinkin' hop tea. Thinkin' back-"sweetening", options. As much as SWMBO hates even the idea of artificial sweeteners, my diabetic friends love the idea of a no-carb beer that has some back-bone. This is a labor of love, not an effort to save a few pennies. Totally open to options. I admit, entirely guilty of nibbling hop pellets. Hop Junkie..that's why it's an IPA. I'm thinkin', ferment-out ALL the sugars, so drinking time isn't wasted, and trade Sugar for FIRE! (maybe with a bit of added enzymatic assistance). We all deserve our fun. But give it the mouthfeel of something real...how? BTW, love the sound of "No Neck IIPA" sounds AWESOME!!
 

electric_beer

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ahave

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electric_beer said:
PS - I don't think its going to taste very good at all. May as well just buy a case of Miller 64 and call it a day.
What he said
 

BeerLogic

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Not only does alcohol have carbs, it is a type of carb. We all know carb is short for carbohydrate, i.e. carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Ethanol, our beloved drinking alchol, is C2H6O, that is, two carbon atoms, 6 hydrogen atoms, and one oxygen atom per molecule. Definitely a carbohydrate.
 
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bratdmd

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I find your lack of faith disturbing. Almost as disturbing as your knowledge of chemistry.

I guess I should have been more specific in the phrasing of my original posting.

First of all, per Wiki - "Carbohydrates are simple organic compounds that are aldehydes or ketones with many hydroxyl groups added, usually one on each carbon atom that is not part of the aldehyde or ketone functional group. The basic carbohydrate units are called monosaccharides; examples are glucose, galactose, and fructose. The general stoichiometric formula of an unmodified monosaccharide is (C·H2O)n, where n is any number of three or greater; however, not all carbohydrates conform to this precise stoichiometric definition (e.g., uronic acids, deoxy-sugars such as fucose), nor are all chemicals that do conform to this definition automatically classified as carbohydrates."

Carbohydrates have 5 kcal per gram, Ethanol has 7 kcal per gram, fat has 9 kcal per gram. That's a distinction between Carbs and Ethanol that even Nutritionists make.

Secondly - http://www.burleighbrewing.com.au/uploads/media_releases/United_Nations_of_Beer.pdf

The more direct questions - If you could enzymatically convert every carbohydrate in your beer to an easily fermentable carb, could the yeast then ferment-out EVERY carb in your beer? How would you then regain the mouthfeel and body of a good beer (i.e. not one of the big 3)? Some combination of artificial (i.e. not fermentable) sweeteners? Has anyone had any success or experience with artificial sweeteners for back-sweetening a beer?

My interest is not just for the super fit and trim. I don't brew for supermodels. I hear they only drink Vodka anyway, because it is CARB-FREE. I have diabetic friends who are sick and tired of resorting to the "lite"s and the "64"s. They want a beer that tastes like beer should.
 

Yooper

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I'm pretty sure alcohol itself is a carb and has calories.

I'm going to step out now, before I get shivved.
Yeah. The reason alcohol is off-limits to diabetics is because of the carbs. NO alcohol is the best for diabetics, but in a pinch something like Micholob Ultra or MGD 64 (or whatever) would not be too terrible.
 

BeerLogic

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As far as body goes, I don't know about back sweetening, but you could add a small amount of salt.
 

electric_beer

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Well, you can argue all you want about carbs vs ethanol...but beer has calories no matter how low the alcohol content is. The higher the ABV, the higher the calories, simple as that. To get the most alcohol to fewest carbs can be accomplished by keeping the OG rather low, but getting the FG at or around 0. I think you can use enzymes to get it to ferment out really well, but I don't know if malto or sucrlose will give you enough body to fix it. Maybe use a pound of wheat or carapils?

But seriously, I think the big breweries aren't doing it for a reason...
 

Risingsun

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I'm pretty sure alcohol itself is a carb and has calories.

I'm going to step out now, before I get shivved.
Chemistry aside alcohol is fine on a ketogenic diet (for weight loss, doctors can argue about diabetics), as alcohol will not kick the body out of ketosis. Like a big pile of sugar water would.

The body will burn the alcohol first but when it is done it will go back to burning fat, instead of triggering hunger, hunger pains, carb cravings and all of the nasty stuff usually associated with beginning a diet of any significance.

Your millage may vary of course.
 

permo

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The liver does not metabolize alcohol into sugar. On the contrary, most people will experience a dip in their blood sugar (glucose) levels when consuming alcohol. Alcohol is eventually broken down by the liver into acetate, and finally into carbon dioxide and water---not sugar
 

TopherM

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No-Carb Beer Recipe:

Add 5 gallons of water to brew kettle.
Boil at 212 F.
Chill to 36 degrees.
Serve.

MMMmmmmmmmmmmmm.....!
 

beerandloathinginaustin

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Massively dry hopping a really light commercial beer might be your best bet here. I think we should develop a way to dry hop your beer right when you order it. Maybe tiny tea balls with 6 different hop varieties to choose from. I bet that could sell really well if you market it right!
 

O'Haggerty

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You should really watch your tone about "lack of chemistry knowledge"... because he was correct and you were not. There are many chemists on these boards such as myself... and being smug and copy/pasting a dictionary definition for carbohydrate doesn't make you look intelligent.

Carbohydrate = hydroxylcarbon = combination of hydrogen / oxygen / carbon backbone.

Alcohol = exactly the same thing. The bond energies in ethanol are equivilant to a similar size hydrocarbon. Play the semantics game if you want... but your body is under the impression alcohol = carbs.
 

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An old thread but it contains obvious flaws so it must be pointed out that alcohol(ethanol) is not a carbohydrate. Carbohydrates consist of mono- di- oligo- or poly-saccharides(sugars) whereas ethanol does not.

The main reason why alcohol consumption is bad in the more common type II diabetes is because long term alcohol consumption tends to cause obesity and visceral fat (especially the fat deposits in liver) and this is crucial for the development of type II diabetes. Something that is peaking in both US and Europe now that people get more obese. T2D has several long-term consequenses for vascular health etc. Alcohol also affects the health of the vascular system as does diabetes and 1+1 > 2. In this disease, the best cure (and especially prevention) is to start losing weight by eating healthy and exercise regularly. Often you don't need to drop carbohydrates permanently because this is not the underlying cause. Depending on the situation, additional medication may be needed.

Type I diabetes is another disease. In this disease, the use of essential medications increase the risk for low blood glucose levels and alcohol will inhibit the release of extra glucose from liver (that could compensate the low blood glucose levels) so ingesting alcohol increases the risk for dangerously low blood glucose in these patients.
 
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dsdrake219

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An old thread but it contains obvious flaws so it must be pointed out that alcohol(ethanol) is not a carbohydrate. Carbohydrates consist of mono- di- oligo- or poly-saccharides(sugars) whereas ethanol does not.

The main reason why alcohol consumption is bad in the more common type II diabetes is because long term alcohol consumption tends to cause obesity and visceral fat (especially the fat deposits in liver) and this is crucial for the development of type II diabetes. Something that is peaking in both US and Europe now that people get more obese. T2D has several long-term consequenses for vascular health etc. Alcohol also affects the health of the vascular system as does diabetes and 1+1 > 2. In this disease, the best cure (and especially prevention) is to start losing weight by eating healthy and exercise regularly. Often you don't need to drop carbohydrates permanently because this is not the underlying cause. Depending on the situation, additional medication may be needed.

Type I diabetes is another disease. In this disease, the use of essential medications increase the risk for low blood glucose levels and alcohol will inhibit the release of extra glucose from liver (that could compensate the low blood glucose levels) so ingesting alcohol increases the risk for dangerously low blood glucose in these patients.

All I want is a low carb good beer recipe, anyone have luck cloning slightly mighty yet? I guess I need some enzymes and some monk fruit... I wonder if it's that easy... I want to brew again, even if it means extracts and pressure cooker alpha acid extractions like when I was in a small apartment
 

Danny F

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I get the feeling this 'alcohol is/isn't a carb' is a common theme on these threads whenever the question of no-carb brewing comes up. Currently looking for examples of near 100% fermentation and no carb brews and this seems to happen a lot.

Really the only important thing in this context is that alcohol is not equivalent to dietary carbohydrates such as sugars. The whole point of these threads is usually to produce a brew that doesn't induce the same bodily response that comes from consuming the usual carbs in your diet (insulin response etc).

In this way, alcohol is not the same. It isn't broken down into sugars, it doesn't get stored, it is simply broken down by the liver. The left over residual carbs in a brew are though, and when consumed together the alcohol will be preferentially metabolised while the conventional carbs can contribute to weight gain, knock people out of ketosis, and so on.

I'm interested to hear if anyone has had much success using enzymes to convert non-fermentable sugars in the wort to fermentable ones and then use very high attenuation yeasts with good tolerance to push their brew to as close to 100% fermentation of sugars present as possible.
 

Gazza7208

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I know it has been a while but I also monitor these threads because I wanted to understand how to brew a good Low Carb / No Carb beer. There are a variety of reasons why people would want a low carb beer and that is their business. I struggled to get all the information in a single place and I am still researching this. For those that are interested, I do the following:

1. 3 + Hour mash at 60C (140F). I get strike to 63 and then it free fall over the 3 hours. In winter maybe stir and heat during mash to keep it between 55 and 62.
2. Add Alpha Amylase enzyme during mash.
3. Boil and Hop as you want.
4. I use "Dry Enzyme" - amyloglucosidase in the fermenter.

I hit between 0.997 and 1.000 almost every time. I am still tweaking the process so have not got to a "zero" carb beer yet but getting there. I get less than 1 gram of carbs per 100ml. I also make Saisons with some sugar additions but these I leave out the fermenter enzyme because the Saison yeast does that job already.

This process will create a thinner, very dry beer and that is not suited for all styles. I have no problem with that at all because it suits my palate. I am still chasing the elusive "0" but in the mean time I am making good beers and losing weight at the same time. Happy to share what I have learned so far if anyone wants to know.
 

Craig Bird

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I know it has been a while but I also monitor these threads because I wanted to understand how to brew a good Low Carb / No Carb beer. There are a variety of reasons why people would want a low carb beer and that is their business. I struggled to get all the information in a single place and I am still researching this. For those that are interested, I do the following:

1. 3 + Hour mash at 60C (140F). I get strike to 63 and then it free fall over the 3 hours. In winter maybe stir and heat during mash to keep it between 55 and 62.
2. Add Alpha Amylase enzyme during mash.
3. Boil and Hop as you want.
4. I use "Dry Enzyme" - amyloglucosidase in the fermenter.

I hit between 0.997 and 1.000 almost every time. I am still tweaking the process so have not got to a "zero" carb beer yet but getting there. I get less than 1 gram of carbs per 100ml. I also make Saisons with some sugar additions but these I leave out the fermenter enzyme because the Saison yeast does that job already.

This process will create a thinner, very dry beer and that is not suited for all styles. I have no problem with that at all because it suits my palate. I am still chasing the elusive "0" but in the mean time I am making good beers and losing weight at the same time. Happy to share what I have learned so far if anyone wants to know.
It seems like your process combined with back sweetening with Monk Fruit will allow for more body in the beer. The sweetness also allows a bolder hop schedule to get more towards a Slightly Mighty IPA. There is a recipe in this thread - Monk Fruit. The difference is that they use Amylo 300(amyloglucosidase) in the mash and in the fermentor. Not sure what the difference is between the two in the mash. How does your grain bill compare to this recipe?
 

Gazza7208

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It seems like your process combined with back sweetening with Monk Fruit will allow for more body in the beer. The sweetness also allows a bolder hop schedule to get more towards a Slightly Mighty IPA. There is a recipe in this thread - Monk Fruit. The difference is that they use Amylo 300(amyloglucosidase) in the mash and in the fermentor. Not sure what the difference is between the two in the mash. How does your grain bill compare to this recipe?
Yes I have been following that thread as well but I have only recently been able to get my hands on Monk Fruit Extract so will definitely be experimenting with that to add body - was going to experiment with Erythritol but seems good results have been gained with Monk Fruit. I tend to follow a very similar grain bill to many of the IPA's on that thread - i.e. Pale / MO as a base, Carahell / Crystal 25/50 depending on colour / flavour I want, Vienna for some flavour, Oats (really does help with mouthfeel). As you have mentioned I have used a subdued hop schedule because it is very easy to overpower the beer when it does not have any real sweetness to balance it. That being said - I am not at all displeased with the results have had.

As for the enzymes. I am starting to realise that with the amyloglucosidase in the fermenter, the enzymes in the mash may be unnecessary - I suspect if I just have the long mash it would suffice. The fermentor enzyme is also capable of converting typically unfermentable sugars so I don't think the mash temp will be such a big deal because you just need extraction - any type will do.
 

Miraculix

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Just mash low, use belle saison yeast and let it do it's thing. It will bring your beer down below 1.0 if treated right and will keep some moutfeel due to other substances it produces.
 

Gazza7208

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Just mash low, use belle saison yeast and let it do it's thing. It will bring your beer down below 1.0 if treated right and will keep some moutfeel due to other substances it produces.
100% Agree. Belle Saison is awesome.
 

Craig Bird

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Interesting, so the strain actually produces Glucoamylase so it eats up unfermable sugars. Would beers made with this taste more like a saison than than an IPA or like a Belgian IPA? Not really looking for that. You say treated right - documentation just says to beware of cross contamination to other beers. What else do you mean to treat it right?
 
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