no boil prehopped beer kits

[Rish]

My wheat beer pretty much stopped bubbling at day 4. Kit yeast is M20 according to their website. Haven't checked sg yet. Maybe tomorrow but I usually leave my beers alone for a least 2 weeks. I am very interested to see how this goes, though.

 

[fluketamer]

its extract beer it will taste like such it may not be as good as ag but it wont be any worse than any other extract beer . just cause it says prehopped kit doesnt make it worse than any other extract . like i said before brewing it with 35 percent dextrose will not make good beer but i think we got that covered .

i will also leave it for a total of 14 days before kegging

 

[Rish]

Got an email from ABC Cork that they have a 15% site wide discount through 07/05. That'll put their 6 gallon extract beer kits at $8.46.

 

[fluketamer]

OH NO
8.46 WHATS GOING ON
THERES NO WAY THIS MAKES BEER RIGHT.... THIS IS CHEAPER THAN WATER

NOW I GOT TO BUY MORE
WTF
thanks rish

 

[fluketamer]

looks like i will try the pale ale cause i dont have that one and i will prolly get another stout cause prehopped stout kits are famous for being foolproof. the roasty bitter chocolate flavors are great at masking off flavors if you screw up thats why the coopers stout kit is known to be a winner. you can add anything to it and brew it in the hot sun and it will likely be drinkable.

im trying to research the ciders as they all i think have " flavoring" which im pretty sure is artificial and i dont like the idea of that in my cider when i make cider perfectly fine without artificial flavor.

i will prolly get the cider anyway as its a great deal and looks and sounds tasty

the mangrove jack ciders have great reviews on line

does anyone know if the cider kits have separate sweetener because i want a dry cider and they all say sweet im hoping i could leave out the sweetener or just add half.

 

[Rish]

NOW I GOT TO BUY MORE

I tasted the wheat I have in the fv and it's pretty good at this point so I'll be getting more of various kits, too. Don't know which ones yet. Probably one of the brown ale and a few others.

 

[mac_1103]

THERES NO WAY THIS MAKES BEER RIGHT.... THIS IS CHEAPER THAN WATER

Not for nothin' but it just might be time to give the over-the-top all caps stuff a rest. You practically invited people to rag on these kits and you for using them, and basically nobody did. There was one "just don't make me drink it" reply and that's pretty much been it. Besides, how can something be cheaper than water if you have to add water?

 

[fluketamer]

haha

point taken

cheers

 

[TomSellers]

NEVER EVER EVER BOIL THESE KITS

Just wondering why that is?

The other LME I have purchased in the past from OBK all have a one hour boil (post steeping of any grains) in the linked recipes.

I asked AI to chime in on this, and they said:

Here's how boiling LME contributes to these aspects:

1. Hop utilization: When boiling LME, you can add hops to the boiling wort. The heat from the boil helps extract the alpha acids and essential oils from the hops, contributing to bitterness, flavor, and aroma in the finished beer. Boiling LME along with hops allows for proper utilization of hop compounds.
2. Protein coagulation: During the boil, proteins present in the wort, including those derived from LME, coagulate and form what is known as the "hot break." This coagulation helps remove unwanted proteins and can enhance the clarity and stability of the final beer. Protein coagulation is important for achieving a cleaner and clearer finished product.
3. Flavor development: Boiling LME, along with other ingredients like hops and specialty grains, helps develop the flavors of the beer. The heat of the boil extracts flavor compounds from the malt extract, contributing to the overall taste profile of the beer.

 

[mac_1103]

Just wondering why that is?

These extracts have already been boiled and hopped.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I asked AI to chime in on this, and they said:

Might be interesting to

1. have ChatGPT type out a recipe that boils pre-hopped LME
2. have ChatGPT brew the recipe it typed out
3. have ChatGPT self-evaluate the beer that it made
4. have ChatGPT send the beer to competitions for feedback

Let us know how it turns out.

eta: beyond that, for those humans that choose to understand a tool before using it, it's well known that current ChatGPTs are statistical word generation.

• This type of "guessing" has been showing up in developer tools for about a year.
• At first, when it's good, it's scary good; but it becomes easy to see the patterns that trigger it.
• When it's bad, it's like a fly in the room: annoying and refuses to go away.
• Most of the time it's bad.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The other LME I have purchased in the past from OBK all have a one hour boil (post steeping of any grains) in the linked recipes.

What linked recipes are you referring to?

---

With regard to the 'need' to boil un-hopped DME and LME, a while back, I was curious if the specific brand of DME or LME might be a consideration. As a starting point, "Are there visual differences between the various brands when heating to a boil?"

So occasionally, I add the DME (or LME) to the kettle at flame on (or 140° F) and view the wort every five minutes until it reaches a boil, then wait five minutes before adding the first hops.

The observations have been confirmed multiple times across a number of brands of un-hopped DME and un-hopped LME.

• Is there variation in the observations between the brands I tested?
• Do the observations matter?

eta: and if ChatGPT would like to physically confirm these results as well, that might be interesting.

 

[TomSellers]

What linked recipes are you referring to?

American IPA

I also used:

steeped grains​

DME​

additional hops​

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

60 min boil

Most "extract" kits use a process very similar to all-grain brewing. That's fine.

Many people creating custom recipes with "extract" use 30 boils or 15 min boils (e.g. "15 minute Cascade Pale Ale" from 2010 here at HomeBrewTalk). There are also a couple of "no boil (pasteurized)" NEIPA topics from 2019 where brewers are reporting high quality (and occasionally award winning) beers.

But back to pre-hopped extract.

If a brewer can make quality beer (either self-evaluated, enjoyed by peers, or evaluated at competitions) with it, and it leads to a shorter brew day, then there's something interesting to talk about.

 

[z-bob]

Does a $10 pack make 1 gallon?

It's supposed to make 23 liters, but you have to add a *lot* of sugar, and I'm skeptical that the resulting beer could be any good unless you use expensive DME for most of that sugar. But I usually brew 4 gallons at a time, and that would take a lot less sugar to reach a reasonable gravity. I also have some 3 gallon carboys and that might not need any sugar at all.

I have no problem with adding modest amounts of sugar to my beer. I might get some of the kits and try it. This will bump the bitterness up quite a bit, so will start with something not-so-bitter.

 

[z-bob]

NEVER EVER EVER BOIL THESE KITS

Just wondering why that is?

The other LME I have purchased in the past from OBK all have a one hour boil (post steeping of any grains) in the linked recipes.

I think it's because the kits have flavor and aroma hops added, and you'll boil that away. I don't know; you'll have to read the directions on the kit and decide if you want to follow them. If all they had was bittering added and you were supposed to add your own finishing hops, they would want you to boil it, but probably not for a full hour.

It's not a bad price for LME. I'm an all-grain brewer but I'm still intrigued and thinking about trying them.

 

[IslandLizard]

It's supposed to make 23 liters, but you have to add a *lot* of sugar, and I'm skeptical that the resulting beer could be any good unless you use expensive DME for most of that sugar. But I usually brew 4 gallons at a time, and that would take a lot less sugar to reach a reasonable gravity. I also have some 3 gallon carboys and that might not need any sugar at all.

I have no problem with adding modest amounts of sugar to my beer. I might get some of the kits and try it. This will bump the bitterness up quite a bit, so will start with something not-so-bitter.

You just revealed the limitations of those kits... the large amount of sugar to be added, and them being prehopped.

Due to the pre-hopping a brewer cannot simply use 1.5 to 2 pouches for a full 23 liter (6 gallon) batch and forego adding all or much sugar, unless one likes the extra bitterness that comes with it.

But you brought forward a good compromise by brewing a somewhat smaller batch from one pouch and adding a more reasonable amount of sugar. Or use DME or (unhopped) LME, or part of a pouch with low hopping/bitterness.

Speaking of bitterness, kits like these are not meant to be boiled or even heated to higher temps at all. Just dissolve in 140-160°F water as quickly as one can, then chill. That is so any remaining alpha acids in the extract won't isomerize and add more bitterness, while losing flavor an aroma.
@z-bob just hinted to that too. ^

 

[Ramp_Rat]

OH NO
8.46 WHATS GOING ON
THERES NO WAY THIS MAKES BEER RIGHT.... THIS IS CHEAPER THAN WATER

NOW I GOT TO BUY MORE
WTF
thanks rish

Thanks for starting the thread, Fluketamer!! I now have 6 kits inbound for $56 Canadian delivered, instead of $25ish per kit . FWIW, I generally use light or extra light DME in place of some or all of the sugar required. No boil, add kit to 3ish L of water, heat to 170F and hold for 15 minutes or so. Add other fermentables to a couple L of water, mix to dissolve. Heat to 170F. Add all to fermenter and top to 20-23L (depends if bottling or kegging is the goal) Pitch the yeast at 70-75F and away we go! I've also found that 250g of maltodextrin can help mitigate some of the 'cidery' taste from using just sugar and add 'body' to the brew without messing with the flavor too much.
Someone on here posted the contents of the commercial 'brew enhancers':
Brew Enhancer 2=
500g Dextrose
250g Light DME
250g Maltodextrin

Brew Enhancer 3=
500g Light DME
300g Dextrose
200g Maltodextrin

Side note: I've made several of ABC Cork's cider kits (Apple pear and Wildberry) in the past with great success using just 1kg Dextrose. The flavoring and sweetener packs included with the kits are VERY concentrated- using the entire contents can make the resulting cider quite sweet and soda pop-ish, YMMV (I personally like it). This sweetness seems to mellow a bit after a month or two of conditioning.

Bottom line: A full corny keg for $9 kit+ $15 DME is a risk I'm willing to take

 

[mac_1103]

If all they had was bittering added and you were supposed to add your own finishing hops, they would want you to boil it, but probably not for a full hour.

Some of the kits actually include additional hops for dry hopping. If I really wanted to add more hops to one of these, I would probably do a no or short boil of some DME in water, hop that, and then chill before adding the pre-hopped LME.

You just revealed the limitations of those kits... the large amount of sugar to be added, and them being prehopped.

Due to the pre-hopping a brewer cannot simply use 1.5 to 2 pouches for a full 23 liter (6 gallon) batch and forego adding all or much sugar, unless one likes the extra bitterness that comes with it.

Another possibility might be just skipping the sugar to make a low ABV beer.

 

[Ramp_Rat]

Some of the kits actually include additional hops for dry hopping. If I really wanted to add more hops to one of these, I would probably do a no or short boil of some DME in water, hop that, and then chill before adding the pre-hopped LME.


Another possibility might be just skipping the sugar to make a low ABV beer.

You might want to add maltodextrin, just so it doesn't come out watery. I attempted a Mild Ale using a Cooper's Real Ale can, 1/2lb Amber DME and 1 lb Maltodextrin. OG=1.030, FG=1.015 ABV=2.6%. Tasted like beer, mouth feel like beer, didn't get hammered after 6 bombers lol

 

[TomSellers]

These extracts have already been boiled and hopped.

All LME (and DME) is boiled in the manufacture process. During this process, after the wort is lautered, it is boiled. Then, after that step, it is concentrated (typically via vacuum evaporation). Nothing new about this process. Here is an old historic stock image lifted from Alamy of some vacuum evaporation units being used in Germany about 100 years ago:

Marmite says that their modern evaporators typically turn the evaporate into biogas, so it seems they have modernized somewhat since the days above.

 

[bellhp]

Im glad Im still at sea with ****** internet or I would probably buy some of these kits.
This is basically the canned kits I started with way back when
Post #43 in thread Sharing Nostalgia with the Beginners: What Was The First Beer Your Brewed?
Anyway It's a good price ( likely because it's old stock ) and will make "beer" .
As far as boil / no boil ...I used to boil it. YMMV

 

[z-bob]

Im glad Im still at sea with ****** internet or I would probably buy some of these kits.
This is basically the canned kits I started with way back when
Post #43 in thread Sharing Nostalgia with the Beginners: What Was The First Beer Your Brewed?
Anyway It's a good price ( likely because it's old stock ) and will make "beer" .
As far as boil / no boil ...I used to boil it. YMMV

One can of Premier Blue Ribbon hopped malt extract, one syrup can of sugar, a packet of generic beer yeast, 5 gallons of water.

 

[mac_1103]

All LME (and DME) is boiled in the manufacture process. During this process, after the wort is lautered, it is boiled.

OK, but that still doesn't mean thhat you should boil hopped extract.

 

[mac_1103]

You might want to add maltodextrin, just so it doesn't come out watery.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how a kg of dextrose is going to add much body or mouthfeel. Not that I have anything against a bit of maltodexrin.

 

[TomSellers]

OK, but that still doesn't mean thhat you should boil hopped extract.

That seems to be the widely accepted advice, and it may well be correct. I was just hoping to see something supporting that is not opinion based. Also, is there an assumption that all these kits are hopped, or just a few select kits?

 

[mac_1103]

I was just hoping to see something supporting that is not opinion based.

Do you think the manufacturer's list of ingredients is opinion based? Do you think the description of what happens when you boil extract that's already been hopped in post #77 is just his opinion?

Also, is there an assumption that all these kits are hopped, or just a few select kits?

It's not an assumption. Did you look at the link? You can read the descriptions for yourself.

 

[Ramp_Rat]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how a kg of dextrose is going to add much body or mouthfeel. Not that I have anything against a bit of maltodexrin.

Sorry, bud. I'm not too adept with the text tools...my total post count will bear this out lol. I meant to quote only your line about using just the can with NO added dextrose or other fermentables to make a low ABV beer.

In my (somewhat meager) experience, using the full kg of dextrose did nothing positive for body or mouthfeel.

Cheers

 

[Bobby_M]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how a kg of dextrose is going to add much body or mouthfeel. Not that I have anything against a bit of maltodexrin.

Dextrose and Maltodextrine are two different sugars. One ferments and the other doesn't.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

All LME (and DME) is boiled in the manufacture process. During this process, after the wort is lautered, it is boiled. Then, after that step, it is concentrated (typically via vacuum evaporation).

Not all: How Malt Extract is Made. Briess has published similar information in the past.

---

It is likely that the best way to understand 'extract' is to consider LME, DME, and hopped malt extract to be three separate types of product with different 'best practices' for use.

And don't assume that all brands of 'extra light' (or 'light' or 'amber') DME are interchangeable. Mineral content of the wort can vary by brand. There has been some recent discussion on noticable differences in a couple of brands of Amber DME in "I brewed a favorite recipe today" and "I brewed an experimental recipe a few weeks ago...".

eta: removed some formatting