no boil prehopped beer kits

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wait til its conditioned in the bottle for a few weeks. it will be super. i used to always do 3 weeks at 70 then 1 week chilled to really get the co2 into the beer when bottling. happy you got the esters you were looking for.

tapped the pilsner last night. no way this will have any chance to lager. properly. its good. after three glasses of trying to find off flavors i decided i cant.
i then gave it to swimbo who said its not bad its not bad at all. which means its young. i didnt get the " its pretty good" which means its ready. lol

it’s all speculation until you ferment it and taste it. im speculating that this keg wont last the month. i like mine too. it needs a little more tweaking . changing golden light to pilsen and adding steeped grains and hop tea will make it perfect. i may even leave out the dme all together and just add 12 ounces of dextrose and brew to 4.5 gallons. this came out maltier , boozier and not as pale as i was looking for. also not as bitter . i thought shorting it to 4.5 would have sufficed for the bitterness but thats the problem with kits you dont really know what you will get until you try.

also summer is busy for me and i left the half batch with kit yeast in primary with the dry hops in there now for 12 days now hoping to keg it tomorow.
hope the extended dry hop doesnt have detrimental effect.

pondering what to make next.
 
kat thanks that helps. i just reread your post about testing lme and was about to look into that but the test is very subjective. what is amber to one person may be golden to another. also it implies that the taste will be off which to me it isnt. ( again very subjective.) i will try to post the pic i have of the wort i took before fermentation. as i said its darker than i was looking for but i assume it has specialty grains boiled into it. i dont think its just single base malt but here i am speculating again.

edit - this pilsner kit isnt pilsen lme like briess . its different its concentrated prehopped wort made to be reconstituted. its not exactly the same as say a container of pilsen or pale lme. i dont think the test really applies to these kits or any kits that are prehopped.
 
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this is the wort before i fermented it like i said darker than i was looking for but i didnt build the recipe and i have no idea what grains are in there thats why i say its all speculation. i just know next time i wont add the 7 oz of golden light dme. i dont know if you guys would call this golden or amber. i guess its more golden than amber. i dont know i never make amber beers. but its not what i would call pilsner. i like straw colored pilsners
 
1688994369033.png


standard disclaimers (with regard to SRM color):
  • names are somewhat subjective and will vary across different guides.
  • The display/monitor may have an impact on the displayed color.
  • The device capturing the image may have an impact of the displayed color.
 
fluketamer said:
edit - this pilsner kit isnt pilsen lme like briess . its different its concentrated prehopped wort made to be reconstituted. its not exactly the same as say a container of pilsen or pale lme. i dont think the test really applies to these kits or any kits that are prehopped.
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Not really sure how different it is. All LME is concentrated and you check the color after it's been diluted. I don't know how much difference the hops make.
 
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fluketamer said:
i dont think the test really applies to these kits or any kits that are prehopped.
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The idea behind the test is roughly this:
  • extract darkens as it ages
  • Pre-boil color + "1" (45 min boil) = final color (plus allowances for haze, measuring devices, light sources, ...)
With multiple extracts, if color comes out darker than expected, it can be difficult to determine which extract was stale.

As for the picture in #125, a full recipe (and process) would be needed to attempt to estimate expected color based on fresh ingredients.

mac_1103 said:
All LME is concentrated and you check the color after it's been diluted. I don't know how much difference the hops make.
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And I'm open to the possibility that hopped extracts behave differently.
 
You don't have to read the entire thread to conclude that people don't want to be told they are drinking less than ideal beer. That goes without saying really. There are countless threads on endless numbers of topics where the OP starts a conversation with a forgone conclusion and anyone that comes in with any form of criticism, critique or suggestion and they're deemed haters. Cool. Got it. Cheerleaders only are welcome in these types of threads.
 
mac_1103 said:
I suppose you might expect the color of these to be closer to your post-boil color with an "equivalent" regular LME.
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That seems both plausible and reasonable.


fluketamer said:
darker than i was looking for
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(perhaps once again, but it needs to be stated): beer color with fresh un-hopped DME/LME isn't hard to model, isn't hard to estimate (IME, ∓ 1 or 2 on 1st attempt), and isn't hard to "dial in" on the 2nd batch.

Generally, "darker than expected" is either an ingredient fault (stale ingredient), a recipe fault (e.g. expecting SRM 4 from Briess Pale Ale DME at OG 75) or a process fault (e.g. adding LME in a way that stratifies the wort).

I would like to believe that this (color is predictable) is true of hopped extract as well. So far, I'm not seeing much evidence to support the claim.
 
I do pseudo-partigyle brew days where I make one all grain brew but then make 2-3 extra gallons to mix with dme, lme, and/or different hops to make a different, second beer from each brew day (if you plan it out well, it only adds about 30-45 minutes to get that second batch).

I've used a few brands of pre-hopped lme to make the second beer, but usually only when I find them on a good deal/cheaper than lme/dme. (And I wish I had seen the sale that prompted this thread).

I'm yet to get a "bad" result from using these, but I am also mixing in fresh wort, other hops, and usually use a different yeast.

The age factor is a real concern (a lot of places will sell straight expired lme). And I've found the hop levels are really hard to predict. If the LME is pre-hopped, I will often just consider that the bittering hop and still add flavor/aroma hops near the end. Also, the final beer color is almost always darker than you expect using these (you can still make "light" colored beers, but they will be darker than all grain counterparts).
 
I’ve been following along with this thread and have seen several different opinions on how to “brew/mix” these up. My question is what is the best or most efficient way to get the best result out of these kits?

Is it following the directions to a T?

Is it subbing DME for the Dextrose or doing a variation of a split between Dextrose/DME/Lactose?

Is it worth it to make a hop tea, or hopping in another method besides the dry hop?

Maybe we can all come to a consensus on the right methods so we can all enjoy the best beers these kits can possibly make.

Look forward to the feedback
 
i think i posted several times about dme dextrose mixes and hop tea . i also suggested that you look at the sister site homebrewforumuk where they have a seperate board devoted to kit brewing with opinions and recipes and years of experience kit brewing.

to sum up tho in general
dont follow directions to a tee.

use enhancer rather than dextrose ( which is usually dme/dextrose or dme dextrose maltodextrin mix. ) i think the ratios are also in this thread

1 kilo of dextrose in 1.8 kilo of extract gives 30 something percent dextrose which is too much corn. (stated before)

hop teas generally help as the kits arent bitter enough or hopped enough

also steeping grains help alot like any extract brew

brew to 5 instead of 6 gallons.

never boil

2 plus 2 plus 2 rule.

which means two weeks primary two weeks bottle condition at 70 then 2 weeks chilled but basically wait six weeks to drink if bottling.
i like 2 weeks primary followed by 3 weeks at 70 then 1 week chill .


theres a lot of other great info on the sister site.

this is all obviously my opinion and experience after brewing kits for 20 plus years

we wont be able to come to a consensus but thats ok i dont think its important

as long as you are happy with your product.,
 
fluketamer said:
hi
does anyone else still brew no boil kits like coopers Muntons mangrove jack etc. or occassoinally brew them i know many have brewed them.

in the spirit of another thread on here this isnt a thread to debate why they are so bad cause they are not. or why AG through a shiny silver electric prostate massaging blickmangrainfatherpico conical thing makes better beer (it does). or at least it better for all the bells and whistles and $ etc. i am just asking who else still makes canned kits.

i figure with the reddit people coming over that the site is now even more accepting and CAN KIT brewers dont have to be shy.

cheers
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Well look here what I stumbled on, a LME brewing thread. This is really timely for me. I’m a VERY casual brewer, 27 batches since 1980, the last one was about 10 years ago. Mostly LME mixed with a few DME’s but never did a real all grain brew. The last and best brew I made was with Coopers Hopped English Bitters. My supplier stopped carrying it shortly after that and for years I couldn’t find anyone that sells it in the US, until my interest perked up a few weeks ago. I found 2 sites on the web and bought a 3.75lb can for $41 including shipping. Some of my previous brews had either too much carbonation or too little but most of them were acceptable, especially the Coopers hopped bitters batch. That one got rave reviews from my friends. So, with renewed interest I bought the Coopers bitters but was concerned about how much priming sugar to add so I joined HomeBrewTalk and started a thread titled “Ounces of Corn Sugar Primer in a 3/4 cup.” Today I stumbled onto your thread and thought, how perfect, this will be enjoyable to follow.
So here’s what I have brewing at the moment and my process.
1 can Coopers Hopped English Bitters.
1 lb light dried Malt
1 lb light honey
1 tsp gypsum.

I realize this thread is about no boil LME and I saw your comment about NEVER EVER EVER boil LME, but because you're discussing LME I wanted to join the party.

I boil because of the edition of the DME and honey. Maybe you could expound on why boiling is not good.

Anyway this is my process with LME.
1. for my yeast starter I mix 2 cups of water with 1 tbl spoon of LME and 1 tbl spoon of corn sugar. Simmer for 10 min, poor into sanitized bowl, cover and set aside to cool.
2. add 2 gallons of water to 5 gallon carboy.
3. add 1 gallon of water to brew pot.
4. add remaining ingredients and bring to boil (don't hate me), turn heat down and let simmer for 15 min.
5. with 5 gallon carboy in wash tub, pour wert into carboy and fill wash tub with cold water. Then add a small bag of ice.
6. when yeast starter mix and brew are both under 80 degrees, pitch yeast.
7. top up carboy leaving about 3 inches of head space.

I use a closed ferment system. The carboy is plugged with a stopper and a hose that runs to a gallon bottle 1/2 filled with water allowing all the bitter crap to blow out into the gallon bottle.

8. bottle after complete fermentation.

I pitched at 9pm on Saturday and Sunday morning it was going nuts blowing suds through the tube. Today, Tuesday, it’s bubbling away about 2 bubbles a second so it’s almost complete. When it is I’ll bottle and post the results.

Thanks so much for starting this thread. I look forward to reading the results of the others who posted what they’re doing with their LME.
Again, please let me know the downside of boiling. Maybe I should just do that with the additional DME and honey?
 
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DudlyBrewRight said:
I realize this thread is about no boil LME and I saw your comment about NEVER EVER EVER boil LME, but because you're discussing LME I wanted to join the party.

I boil because of the edition of the DME and honey. Maybe you could expound on why boiling is not good.
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The comment was only about pre-hopped LME and these kits in particular. The reasons for that have already been debated above. He never said that boiling is not good for LME in general, although from what I gather scorching can be an issue if the wort is not mixed very well. You can find plenty of threads about no boil, short boil, and every other kind of boil brewing on this site. Home brewing is not a one size fits all hobby.
 
Doing the Pilsner kit. I used pilsen lme at 3lb into 5.25G and also got what might be better described as an amber lager with srm 12-15. The pouch LME was darker than the Briess pilsen, but it's not like the Briess pilsen is clear, it is also leaning towards amber. If you want the lightest color, the dextrose or even the DME pilsen would work better, but doubt you would get straw with either. Probably just a lighter amber.

Sample tastes great, this is going to be a good beer. I did do a hop stand at 150F for 30 minutes with the stock hops (likely Saaz) and an additional .5 oz of Mittelfruh. Some carafoam and maltodextrin to boost mouthfeel and hopefully get a nice head. Will be fermenting with w34/70 at 55F for the next month.

Here is the sample going into the fermenter alongside some Sierra Nevada Summerfest.
 

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mac_1103 said:
The comment was only about pre-hopped LME and these kits in particular. The reasons for that have already been debated above. He never said that boiling is not good for LME in general, although from what I gather scorching can be an issue if the wort is not mixed very well. You can find plenty of threads about no boil, short boil, and every other kind of boil brewing on this site. Home brewing is not a one size fits all hobby.
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I'm using Pre-Hopped Coopers LME, that's why I asked. I'm not trying to hijack the thread into a debate about whether to boil or not. I just don't have a lot of experience and thought the OP could shed some light. I'm also very careful to thoroughly stir the wert during the process so I don't scorch it.
 
DudlyBrewRight said:
I'm using Pre-Hopped Coopers LME, that's why I asked.
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I could be wrong, but I suspect that what has already been said (by the OP and others) about these kits would also apply to pre-hopped Cooper's LME. Since it's already been boiled to isolmerize the hop alpha acids, boiling it again is likely to result in additional (presumably unwanted) bitterness and drive off whatever hop aroma the LME might have.
 
mac_1103 said:
I could be wrong, but I suspect that what has already been said (by the OP and others) about these kits would also apply to pre-hopped Cooper's LME. Since it's already been boiled to isolmerize the hop alpha acids, boiling it again is likely to result in additional (presumably unwanted) bitterness and drive off whatever hop aroma the LME might have.
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Got it, thanks. I was thinking that just boiling/simmering the 1lb of light DMV and 1lb light honey in a gallon of water would be a better process for my recipe.
 
Pilsen DME is practically white, here is a photo of it against the Golden Light DME, but regardless, you won't end up with anything lighter than a pale amber using it in this kit, the base LME is too dark.
 

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mac_1103 said:
The comment was only about pre-hopped LME and these kits in particular. The reasons for that have already been debated above. He never said that boiling is not good for LME in general, although from what I gather scorching can be an issue if the wort is not mixed very well. You can find plenty of threads about no boil, short boil, and every other kind of boil brewing on this site. Home brewing is not a one size fits all hobby.
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Just found the answer, thanks for suggesting I do some research.
This is what I found which everyone here probably already knows.
"When you boil your can of hopped malt extract you run the risk of over-isomerizing the hops. What this can do is lead to an extremely bitter beer and also create a medicine like flavor in your beer.
This is not a flavor that will condition out."

Looks like I won't be doing that anymore. 🙂
 
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DudlyBrewRight said:
Pasteurization, thanks.
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Sorry about the "spoiler alert", but I was asked earlier in this topic not to talk about it.


Part of the reason some of us are still here is this:
  • hopped extract,
  • un-hopped liquid malt extract (LME) , and
  • un-hopped dry malt extract (DME)
are, reasonably, different ingredients and need to be treated differently.

And when customizing kits, understanding proper ingredient preparation will help avoid a spoiled batch, bottles that are gushers (or worse), ...
 
BrewnWKopperKat said:
Sorry about the "spoiler alert", but I was asked earlier in this topic not to talk about it.


Part of the reason some of us are still here is this:
  • hopped extract,
  • un-hopped liquid malt extract (LME) , and
  • un-hopped dry malt extract (DME)
are, reasonably, different ingredients and need to be treated differently.

And when customizing kits, understanding proper ingredient preparation will help avoid a spoiled batch, bottles that are gushers (or worse), ...
Click to expand...
I see I have a lot to learn. I'm assumed that when you said hopped extract you meant hopped dry extract which I didn't know existed. So I searched for it and found Muntons Spraymalt Hopped Light.
This is from Muntons: "A spray dried barley malt extract powder with added hops to introduce a sweet mild malt flavour with a bitter finish."
Since I'm looking for an easy route to good but not award winning homebrew I may try this. Years ago l messed around with DME and fresh hopps but never got good results. Thus my experimenting with hopped LME. I'll have to search this site to see if there are any threads on hopped DME. Thanks.
 
Spiced Apple Cider Kit review.
Spice flavor is dominant, very little apple flavor overall impression it's okay. This kit as made was not as good as fermented Costco apple juice.

I also ordered the Pear Cider Kit when I make it I will short the bach to 4.5 gallons to try and concentrate the flavor more. The apple cider was a 5.5 gallon batch with 2 lbs of sugar.

I would not recommend this kit when Costco apple juice and S-04 yeast make a better cider.

Other kit news I have the wheat beer kit fermenting now. It's a 4.5 gallon batch with 1 lb of honey.
 
DudlyBrewRight said:
Muntons Spraymalt Hopped Light.
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Hopped DME should have a longer shelf life than hopped LME. But as always, YMMV.


IIRC, back in the 2017/2018 time frame, one of the major home brew stores offered, for a short period of time, 1 gal kits with Muntons Hopped DME.

IMO, this is something worth exploring ("Hopped DME"), but from 2020-2022, I was not able to find/order hoped DME -- and, in 2023, I have other interests.
 
BrewnWKopperKat said:
Hopped DME should have a longer shelf life than hopped LME. But as always, YMMV.


IIRC, back in the 2017/2018 time frame, one of the major home brew stores offered, for a short period of time, 1 gal kits with Muntons Hopped DME.

IMO, this is something worth exploring ("Hopped DME"), but from 2020-2022, I was not able to find/order hoped DME -- and, in 2023, I have other interests.
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And those interests are?
 
hey somesay how about the wheat beer did it also come out darker than the picture on the pouch? can you post a pic.
 
fluketamer said:
hey somesay how about the wheat beer did it also come out darker than the picture on the pouch? can you post a pic.
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I will try and remember to take a picture when packaging it. As you can see in the screen shot it didn't get fully mixed until fermentation started.

I would expect it to be darker since it's about 33% more concentrated than the recipe called for, and I added honey instead of sugar.
 

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that fermentrack thing is awesome and i am jealous.

i am not happy with the color of the pilsner kits i looked online a lot and pics of the finished beer look dark also. the beer tastes great but its too dark for me . this wont be an issue with the stouts. hopefully the blonde lager comes out lighter.


i may just add roasted grains to the ales and make them into porters.

heres a list of coopers kit recipes if anyone is interested the coopers kits are 1.7 kg usually so prolly substituting an abc kit for coopers would work similarly.
1) Customize Your Coopers

if you look at them the general theme is dme and some form of corn sugar plus or minus grains and hops.

heres a list of lager recipes using 1.5 to 1.8 kg kits.

2) http://www.aussiehomebrewing.com/LagerRecipes/LagerRecipes.html

heres a list of over 150 cooper kit recipes using 1.7 kg kits.

3) Coopers Recipe Spreadsheet

hope this helps with some ideas on adding to kit beer



cheers
 
i emailed the company today and was surprised to get an answer back so soon.

i had 3 questions
1) when was lme manufactured if exp date on bag is 10/2024
ans: 18 to 24 months before exp date.
2) what is the srm values of your kits.
ans: ibus measure color and they are provided in the kit. ( clearly the sales rep is an idiot ) i wrote back to him telling him ibu isnt color waiting for reply
3) what yeast is in the blonde lager kit
ans: we are providing a general type yeast in our blonde lager because most people dont realize that a lager needs to be fermented at a lower temp - useless

clearly the sales rep is lacking in homebrew knowledge and even knowledge of his own products.
 
fluketamer said:
3) what yeast is in the blonde lager kit
ans: we are providing a general type yeast in our blonde lager because most people dont realize that a lager needs to be fermented at a lower temp - useless
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I could actually believe this. They call it a lager kit but supply an ale yeast because they expect folks to ferment it without temperature control.
 
I’m about to make one of these kits tomorrow.

It’s a pale ale kit, and I’ve decided I’m going to dip hop it with an ounce or Loral at 22.9 ibu and an ounce of Calypso at 12.9 ibu.

I’m also going to add 2lbs of pale malt DME 1lb of dextrose and 12 oz of maltodextrine.

I’ll also go to 5.5 gallons as opposed to 6.

Use the dry hops from the kit and they sent Nottingham yeast along.

I’m expecting to get a 5.1% Abv and hoping for great hop aroma.

Will update as the process goes
 

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