no apple taste fix?

[winovino]

Hi all,

This is my first attempt at cider and i'm a bit confused.
Simple recipe, fresh pressed juice, brown sugar, mangrove jacks yeast.

Its been three weeks in primary (dont plan on doing a secondary), fermented at 68f, og was 1.068, gravity now is just a hair under 1.00

No apple flavor at all. zero. Is this normal? Is there a remedy? i really dont want to wait another 3-4 weeks to drink as i have other things in line for the ferm chamber.

Appreciate any and all input.
Thanks!

 

[slym2none]

I hear the apple flavour will re-emerge after some time has passed. If you are in a hurry, you may be SOL.

 

[Psylocide]

No reason to leave it in the ferm chamber... Looks like fermentation is complete.

 

[dmtaylor]

Cider doesn't always taste like apples, in the same way that wine doesn't taste like grapes. It's a totally different form of expression after it is fermented. If you want apple juice with alcohol, then add vodka to some apple juice and away you go. A lot of commercial ciders in the USA seem to be made that way. But, that's not what real cider tastes like.

 

[Mismost]

I hear the apple flavour will re-emerge after some time has passed. If you are in a hurry, you may be SOL.

Cider rookie here but have 10 gallons working now. I sampled a bit from the first batch last night. It crisp and dry, no apple favor. I sweetened it just a little and the apple flavor came back up a little. I'm going to leave it alone and sweeten as I drink it.....months from now.

I think the apple is there, just hidden right now. I've done a couple of apple wines...very tart at bottling....got much better 5 month later, although not apple flavor at all, just like a dry white wine.

 

[rivalry15]

Best way I know of is to ferment it out, remove or pasteurize to stop the yeast and then add in apple juice.
A lot of the flavor and aroma is blown out during ferments

 

[winovino]

I've read about back sweetening but honestly i'm not looking for sweet i just want a bit of flavor. Right now it doesnt taste like anything......

The batch i made was about 4 1/2ish gallons and its in a ferm bucket. I have a 5 gallon carboy i could rack it into and bring it inside the house (ferm chamber is in the garage) to sit for a few weeks i suppose.

Do you guys think this will aid some flavor coming through?

 

[rivalry15]

Cider ages like wine... It gets better.
I used a white labs wlp090 which left a nice Amber color and a nice aroma with some apple flavor, a little. It had a strange yeastiness at the end which I blame on myself and no temp control.
I'm currently trying another batch to see if it was a yeast thing or my mostake

 

[feinbera]

All the dudes on the Apfelwein thread talk about the apple flavor coming back after a few months of cellar-temp (read: forgotten about in a dark corner somewhere, not clogging your pipeline) conditioning.

I sincerely hope they're right, because if not, I'm sitting on five gallons of murky, low-ABV wannabe dry Chardonnay.

 

[rivalry15]

It can't hurt to let it age in secondary or the ferm chamber though.

 

[Terek]

I primary for 2 weeks, secondary for 2 weeks, then bottle. I let it sit in the bottle in my cellar at around 60* for AT LEAST a month. I prefer 2. It really aids in getting rid of that bitter bite and brings out the apple flavor.

I also really like doing an open ferment for two weeks. Then secondary for a month. In this stage, it will develop a lambic, and turn sour. I drink my sour ciders young. Usually as soon as bottled. I like the bite with the sour.

 

[winovino]

Thanks for the replys.

I guess i'll rack it into the carboy and stick it in the corner of the garage for a month and see what happens. Hopefully its doesnt get below 50 deg in there as its winter, but i guess that wouldnt be too detrimental.

 

[tfwise]

Best way I know of is to ferment it out, remove or pasteurize to stop the yeast and then add in apple juice.
A lot of the flavor and aroma is blown out during ferments

I agree, this is pretty much how I finish my cider, by adding juice back into the mix after stabilizing, though I include a bit of brown sugar as well.

 

[Terek]

Thanks for the replys.

I guess i'll rack it into the carboy and stick it in the corner of the garage for a month and see what happens. Hopefully its doesnt get below 50 deg in there as its winter, but i guess that wouldnt be too detrimental.

no, that would be good. Would be like a cold crash, helps clear it

 

[Maylar]

I often use this stuff, especially in young cider:

http://www.naturesflavors.com/apple-cider-flavor-concentrate/p106878/

Might seem expensive, but a little goes a loooong way. Just 1/4 TSP per gallon adds back some apple flavor to a weak tasting batch.

 

[Renegades_Brew]

I currently have about 17 gallons of cider going in three different forms.

Last year I had a wonderful batch of cider that I put a fantastic belgian strain of yeast (would have to look it up to know exactly which one). Over the 6 months I let it sit in primary in the dark corner it fermented out to .990. Dry as dry can be. Crystal clear too. It has been about 6 months since bottling it and it is quite fantastic.

Currently I have a Pear, Apple, Cherry cider going on secondary right now with a lambic blend. A Pear, Apple blend in secondary with french oak staves. And a straight Pear, Apple with lambic blend. These have all been in primary for 3 months and about 2 weeks into secondary now.

I am known for my longer fermentation times on things. The Pear, apple, cherry is the one I am the most excited about. it looks like it might be starting a nice pelicle on the surface. Which excites me quite a bit as I was hoping to get that to head a bit more towards the sour notes.

Basically when it comes to cider, time is not a bad thing. I have not encountered a bad batch of cider that has aged in my house ever. (My house is kept around 60 degrees in winter, 75 in summer). I do have my hot spots and cool spots for aiding in different aging techniques or speeding fermentation a touch if needed.

 

[bernardsmith]

I agree that after 9 months or so flavors in ciders and apple wines shine but I wonder if winovino's problem may be different. The addition of brown sugar does not simply add fermentables to the cider it adds flavors and the flavors from brown sugar may be enough to drown out the flavors from the apples.

Winovino says that the apples were fresh pressed but we don't know whether the apples were eating apples or apples grown for cider (hard cider). If eating apples (also the same apples for the soft drink) then Winovino's choice of added fermentables may be problem. I make cider at least once a year and use juice pressed for hard cider by a local orchard but unless I am making apple wine I don't add sugar (gravity is about 1.050 or an ABV of about 6.5%) and the flavor of the apples is front and center and through and through. (I also use 71B as my preferred yeast).

 

[BigMack]

Just a thought, you might also try a different yeast next time. I use S04 to make ciders and I think that definitely leaves some apple flavor.

 

[Renegades_Brew]

The quantity of brown sugar could be the issue. There really isn't a whole lot of information to make an educated guess as to what exactly the problem is yet.

Need recipe to do that.

 

[Terek]

I often use this stuff, especially in young cider:

http://www.naturesflavors.com/apple-cider-flavor-concentrate/p106878/

Might seem expensive, but a little goes a loooong way. Just 1/4 TSP per gallon adds back some apple flavor to a weak tasting batch.

you can make this yourself as well. Freeze a jug of apple juice, then turn it upside down in a glass, and let the concentrate drip out. Thats what i do. Not sure if its any cheaper though

 

[Elkobrewer]

Best way to get the apple flavor would be to add Apple extract flavoring. A little at a time to your bottling bucket tell you get the apple flavor you are looking for, then bottle it. And also do the same thing with wine conditioner if you want it to be a little sweeter.

 

[madscientist451]

Frozen apple juice concentrate is what I use to put apple flavor back into dry cider. Of course this will sweeten it up a bit as well. I've also used frozen blackberries to add flavor to dry cider. I put a 12 oz bag in a gallon jug and keep it cold so the yeast won't kick off again. In 2-3 weeks its got a great blackberry flavor. Save your dry cider in 1 gallon jugs and when rhubarb is in season add about 1lb rhubarb to a gallon of cider.
I also do a strawberry flavor and then blend the strawberry/rhubarb together.
So the dry "tasteless"cider is good to use as a base for other flavors if you don't want just apple. To make a cider that finishes with some apple flavor, I use WL002 and ferment in the high 50's/Low 60's. I've heard saison yeast will also leave some apple flavor and I have some going right now but haven't sampled it yet.