Nightshift whirlpool clone

[dpinette2]

Brewing my 3rd batch of beer tomorrow and wanted to see if anyone had any opinions/thoughts about my recipe/process.

9# pilsner malt
3#malted wheat
1# oats

.1 oz of warrior fwh

2oz of mosaic and citra at flameout for 20min

same for dry hop for 3 days

The plan was to mash at 150 for 60 with 4 gallons of sw. Then sparge until i have pre boil volume of 8gallons. I’m using 1.25 ratio for sw.

Also using a starter, london ale 3.

Believe i’ll be using some gypsum as i’m under the impression my ph is high(have a meter) but won’t know until mash( do i add it to the pre boil wort or mash tun?) I’ll throw in a whirlfloc tab as well, believe 10mins.

Yeast nutrient in starter, not sure if i still add to boil?

Ferment in bucket, will move to secondary day 4, keg/bottle day 14. condition for 3 weeks?

Thoughts? I appreciate your thoughts in advance.

 

[IslandLizard]

Looks good!

Here are a few ideas and process hints:
Instead of flameout, pay homage to her name, and whirlpool (hopstand) at 170/160F for 30'. You'll get some IBUs from that (none at 150F, if you decide that temp).
Stir well every 3-5 minutes without beating air into the wort.

Raise the Warrior somewhat to get your IBUs.

Definitely some Gypsum if you want a crisp bitterness to stand out.
Or instead, use Calcium Chloride to accentuate softness like in NEIPAs.

Add acid to drop your pH, Gypsum may not do it enough. Use a mash water calculator. The easiest, IMO, is Mash Made Easy.

I add 1/2 tsp of 50/50 Epsom Salt/DAP at the end of the boil. No fancy nutrient pill.
In starters I add 1/4 tsp per gallon of that plus a pinch of Zinc Chloride.

Skip secondary, please.
Also, wherever possible, try to limit exposure to air (O2) when dry hopping, handling, racking, etc. Oxidation is bad for hop flavor/aroma.

Dry hop at the end of fermentation (say after a week or a little sooner) in "primary." Aim to leave on dry hops at room temps for 3-5 days before cold crashing. Then cold crash for 1-2 days before bottling.
You could dry hop by dropping the pellets through the airlock hole. That way the headspace gets less disturbed (remains rich in CO2).

 

[dpinette2]

Thank you for reading and ideas.

Question about secondary, Are you saying skip to decrease exporsure to air?
Seems like i see 50/50 on whether to use a secondary, just trying to get an understanding?

Thanks again

 

[IslandLizard]

In (NE)IPA world it's 99/01 not to use secondaries. Yup, unneeded exposure to air/O2.
We try to avoid air/O2 exposure like the plague. O2 is the plague for hoppy beers.

For most people who have been brewing a while and read forums like this, secondaries are basically out.
It's the kit brewers that grow into them through outdated (and erroneous) kit instructions, and adhere to it like gospel.

In general, if the beer doesn't need aging for longer than 2-3 months, there is no benefit to take it off the yeast, hence no need for a secondary.
Some people who add tons of fruit may secondary, but if they're not aging, souring, or saving the clean yeast cake, there's little point.

 

[dpinette2]

I was planning on re-using the yeast for the first time, is it still fine to do if I don’t use a secondary? So harvest the yeast from primary on day 14?

 

[LostHopper]

Maybe it's just a spot on my screen but is the Warrior addition read 0.1oz of hops?

 

[dpinette2]

i was copying portions of another recipe, that’s what it said “directly from brewer at nightshift?”

suggestions?

 

[IslandLizard]

i was copying portions of another recipe, that’s what it said “directly from brewer at nightshift?”

suggestions?

It could be correct, it's around 3 grams. The recipe has large flameout additions, hopefully to be changed to a whirlpool/hopstand one at reduced temps.

For comparison, I used 6 grams of Warrior (12.6 IBU) in my 1.056 (sessionable) NEIPA, the rest of the bittering came from a 15' whirlpool at 170F with 80 grams of 50/50 Eureka/Galaxy followed by a 30' whirlpool at 160F with 40 grams of the same. It was plenty bitter, perhaps even a little too much. I'm reducing the whirlpool temps by 10F for each for the next brew: 15' @160 and 30' @150F.

 

[LostHopper]

It could be correct, it's around 3 grams. The recipe has large flameout additions, hopefully to be changed to a whirlpool/hopstand one at reduced temps.

For comparison, I used 6 grams of Warrior (12.6 IBU) in my 1.056 (sessionable) NEIPA, the rest of the bittering came from a 15' whirlpool at 170F with 80 grams of 50/50 Eureka/Galaxy followed by a 30' whirlpool at 160F with 40 grams of the same. It was plenty bitter, perhaps even a little too much. I'm reducing the whirlpool temps by 10F for each for the next brew: 15' @160 and 30' @150F.

Thanks for the info. I've not brewed a true NEIPA or researched the recipes. My thought was with 0.1 oz of FWH, why bother? As you mentioned you get plenty of IBU's at flameout and whirlpool when the additions are large.

 

[dpinette2]

I changed it to 1oz, figures why not!

I tried the whirlpool, but it was very difficult with hop spider and wort chiller in there, i did my best! I dropped 2.1 mosaic and 2.5 citra in at 180, and kept trying to whirlpool it for 20-25 mins.

I’m still a little unsure about difference between flameout steep/whirlpool/hopstand?

original gravity was 1.058, which is by far the highest i’ve achieved, smelled amazing, and it tasted absolutely amazing! Very excited for this one!

 

[IslandLizard]

I changed it to 1oz, figures why not!

I tried the whirlpool, but it was very difficult with hop spider and wort chiller in there, i did my best! I dropped 2.1 mosaic and 2.5 citra in at 180, and kept trying to whirlpool it for 20-25 mins.

I’m still a little unsure about difference between flameout steep/whirlpool/hopstand?

original gravity was 1.058, which is by far the highest i’ve achieved, smelled amazing, and it tasted absolutely amazing! Very excited for this one!

With 1 oz of Warrior your beer definitely won't lack bitterness.

Steep/whirlpool/hopstand?
The difference among those terms is mostly semantics.

Whirlpool is the name borrowed from pro brewery installations. They use a (special) whirlpool vessel to separate the wort from the trub after the boil. Homebrewers can perform something similar in their boil kettle in various ways.
A hopstand (or steep) is similar to a whirlpool, except the wort isn't in constant motion. Just stir every 3-5 minutes to keep the hops suspended and exposed to fresh wort so they can lean their goodness to it.

Flameout hops are hops added at, well, flameout. Depending on how soon and how fast you start chilling after that influences the outcome. They can be whirlpooled, or left for a hop stand (steep) at any temperature after that.

Since the advance of New England IPAs many homebrewers have been experimenting with reducing the temp of the wort before adding hops. Those are now typically named whirlpool hops, or hopstand hops, and are certainly not flameout hops.

Although the wort cools slightly during the hopstand/whirlpool process there is still significant alpha acid isomerization going on all the way down to around 150F. That isomerization process is what converts certain hop components (Alpha Acids, AA) to become bitter. The higher those temps and the longer kept at them the more isomerization takes place. The lower the temps the slower that process and more flavor and aroma is retained, also due to less evaporation and fleeting off.

As long as you moved the wort around frequently your hop stand was efficient. Any idea what temp the wort was at the end of your 25' hop stand?

Now on to the dry hop... while still fermenting or later?

 

[dpinette2]

Thank you for all of that, highly informational. At 25 mins i started the wort chiller, it was at about 160-165

Planning to dry hop 3 days, so day 11?

 

[IslandLizard]

Thank you for all of that, highly informational. At 25 mins i started the wort chiller, it was at about 160-165

Planning to dry hop 3 days, so day 11?

YVW!

You mentioned you added the whirlpool hops at 180F. You must have chilled it too, first, to get it to those temps after the boil.

Keep an eye on the fermentation, you can dry hop right on the trailing edge of it to reduce the time before packaging.
I hope you're kegging this.

 

[dpinette2]

I stirred it with cover off until it got down to 180, it only took about 10-15mins

right now i have 3 mini keg growlers, 128 ounces each and some 24 oz bottles(plastic)
My yield was about 4.5gallons. Debating getting some reusable glass bottles. I have a 500sq ft apt, with wife and kid....so space for a larger legging system is not really there at this point. Future purchase!!!

 

[IslandLizard]

I stirred it with cover off until it got down to 180, it only took about 10-15mins

right now i have 3 mini keg growlers, 128 ounces each and some 24 oz bottles(plastic)
My yield was about 4.5gallons. Debating getting some reusable glass bottles. I have a 500sq ft apt, with wife and kid....so space for a larger legging system is not really there at this point. Future purchase!!!

You could have used the chiller to bring it down to 180F. Then either leave it in there, although a bit of an obstacle when stirring, or stick in a clean, sanitized bucket for the time being. As long as you get some motion/turnover in the wort when doing your hopstand it works. You want fresh wort where the hops are.

Plastic bottles or your "keg growlers" are fine, possibly preferred for this kind of beer. They can withstand more pressure than glass ones in case your fermentation wasn't quite finished. The quicker you can get to drink that IPA, the better and more flavorful it is. Not saying you should under-attenuate, that's a general no-no, but ending 2-3 points higher than expected won't cause as much of a problem in plastic as it can in glass IF fermentation decides to pick up suddenly.

 

[dpinette2]

Fermentation has slowed down to a bubble every 30 secs or so, could it be possibly over? I know i could take gravity reading, but isn’t that exposure to oxygen?

Have kept temp at 65-68 the whole time.

Should i start thinking about dry hopping at this point?

 

[IslandLizard]

Fermentation has slowed down to a bubble every 30 secs or so, could it be possibly over? I know i could take gravity reading, but isn’t that exposure to oxygen?

Have kept temp at 65-68 the whole time.

Should i start thinking about dry hopping at this point?

You could start dry hopping now, like we do in (hazy) NEIPAs, or wait a few more days (say 3-5) until most fermentation is over. How long has it been fermenting, 3 days? That's relatively short.

To take a sample without disturbing the headspace, remove airlock and snake a 2' piece of 5/16" OD 3/16" ID tubing down the airlock hole, about halfway, so it's underneath the beer level. Drop the piece of tubing that is outside the bucket along the side, also below the beer level, and give it a hard suck until the beer starts to flow. Collect 4-6 oz of beer in a beaker that way. At the end of the transfer pull the hose out of the bucket quickly in a smooth, deliberate motion, so no beer flows back into the bucket. Replace the airlock, take a reading and taste the sample. Use good sanitation and make notes.

Unless you have CO2 handy to flush the headspace after removing the lid, you could dry hop by dropping pellets one by one through the airlock hole. Again by not removing the lid the headspace remains fairly undisturbed that way.

 

[dpinette2]

So i was able to take a reading, i used a sanitized plastic straw that i put through the airlock hole, i only got it into the top 1- 1 1/2 inch mark of the beer, but got a small sample, 1.026. Not sure if grabbing top of beer affects the reading at all?

Tested....It did not taste as sweet as it was on brew day. First time i understand what the word “green” means.

My question is, it doesn’t seem to be bubbling a lot, do i need to do something, or stop thinking about it and wait a few days. I guess i’m concerned because i used a starter for the first time. Maybe i’m keeping it too cool as well, it’s in my cooler, and i built a insulated top to it and have the fermentation bucket in water that i’ve added ice packs too to keep at a temp from 65-68.

Thoughts? Help?

 

[dpinette2]

I took another sample this afternoon, gravity is 1.025 now...seems like fermentation is stuck a bit, i swirled the bucket for 5-10 seconds, hope that isn’t a no no?

Tasted much better, and smell was definitely improved