New to Kegging - 100% CO2 or Nitrogen/CO2 Mix?

[RussW]

New to kegging here,
what is the consensus on using 100% CO2 or Nitrogen/CO2 mix for carbonation? Pros/cons.

 

[bracconiere]

generally 100% co2, i saw one thread that a Lodo brewer was worried about purity....lol

but nitrogen is for pushing beer at higher pressure, with out over carbing it.....long lines and such...and then some people like the way flat stout tastes, so they carbonate, then serve it at high pressure through a special tap that forces the co2 out.....it's an irish thing...


never used it myself, just the consensus i've gathered....

 

[RussW]

generally 100% co2, i saw one thread that a Lodo brewer was worried about purity....lol

but nitrogen is for pushing beer at higher pressure, with out over carbing it.....long lines and such...and then some people like the way flat stout tastes, so they carbonate, then serve it at high pressure through a special tap that forces the co2 out.....it's an irish thing...


never used it myself, just the consensus i've gathered....

Thanks for the insight

 

[bracconiere]

well i'm an amature, wait for a majority vote! i'd say when asking the internet wait for 8-10 replies...

and welcome to the club, surprised you're asking about beer gas...

but as far as i've read, the reason you can push at higher PSI like 35 and stuff is nitrogen doesn't dissolve in water....

 

[DuncB]

Another amateur here. But have set up my keg fridge in the last few months as I realised good beer served bad isn't good beer to drink. I was wandering round with CO2 cylinder and party tap with flow control ball lock connector, not so good although I could make foam really well. Don't believe the hype about those flow control ball lock connectors.
First five taps I put in I am running 100% CO2, this keeps the carbonation in the beer and pushes it out of the keg to dispense it. Pressure on the regulator is set to the temperature of beer to give the correct vols of CO2 in the beverage so about 13 psi for me at 8 celsius ( slightly high due to pressure loss across Non return valves). You find this figure on a carbonation chart.
Further tap is for stout this has 75% Nitrogen and 25% CO2 in the cylinder. Stout has less vols of CO2 than a lager. But pressure is higher because you only have a quarter of the CO2 but you are aiming for say 1.4 vols CO2 in stout and then the nitrogen pushes the stout out and some CO2 at the same time. Nitrogen doesn't really dissolve in the beer.
If you carbonate the stout to CO2 serving volumes say 2.4 and have the nitrogen you would have foam extraordinaire.

Start with a cylinder or CO2 for your beers, seltzer, and for force carbing.
It's been a journey but now beer is pouring well.

 

[camonick]

New to kegging here,
what is the consensus on using 100% CO2 or Nitrogen/CO2 mix for carbonation? Pros/cons.

Unless you plan on serving a nitrogenated stout through one of several different faucets specifically designed for that purpose or are pushing your beer a ridiculously long distance (which will create a whole different set of issues you’re not ready for yet), 100% CO2 and a property balanced system is all you need.
Refer to this carbonation chart to fine tune your system.

Edit: spelling

 

[RussW]

Another amateur here. But have set up my keg fridge in the last few months as I realised good beer served bad isn't good beer to drink. I was wandering round with CO2 cylinder and party tap with flow control ball lock connector, not so good although I could make foam really well. Don't believe the hype about those flow control ball lock connectors.
First five taps I put in I am running 100% CO2, this keeps the carbonation in the beer and pushes it out of the keg to dispense it. Pressure on the regulator is set to the temperature of beer to give the correct vols of CO2 in the beverage so about 13 psi for me at 8 celsius ( slightly high due to pressure loss across Non return valves). You find this figure on a carbonation chart.
Further tap is for stout this has 75% Nitrogen and 25% CO2 in the cylinder. Stout has less vols of CO2 than a lager. But pressure is higher because you only have a quarter of the CO2 but you are aiming for say 1.4 vols CO2 in stout and then the nitrogen pushes the stout out and some CO2 at the same time. Nitrogen doesn't really dissolve in the beer.
If you carbonate the stout to CO2 serving volumes say 2.4 and have the nitrogen you would have foam extraordinaire.

Start with a cylinder or CO2 for your beers, seltzer, and for force carbing.
It's been a journey but now beer is pouring well.

Thanks for the insight, appreciate it

 

[RussW]

Another amateur here. But have set up my keg fridge in the last few months as I realised good beer served bad isn't good beer to drink. I was wandering round with CO2 cylinder and party tap with flow control ball lock connector, not so good although I could make foam really well. Don't believe the hype about those flow control ball lock connectors.
First five taps I put in I am running 100% CO2, this keeps the carbonation in the beer and pushes it out of the keg to dispense it. Pressure on the regulator is set to the temperature of beer to give the correct vols of CO2 in the beverage so about 13 psi for me at 8 celsius ( slightly high due to pressure loss across Non return valves). You find this figure on a carbonation chart.
Further tap is for stout this has 75% Nitrogen and 25% CO2 in the cylinder. Stout has less vols of CO2 than a lager. But pressure is higher because you only have a quarter of the CO2 but you are aiming for say 1.4 vols CO2 in stout and then the nitrogen pushes the stout out and some CO2 at the same time. Nitrogen doesn't really dissolve in the beer.
If you carbonate the stout to CO2 serving volumes say 2.4 and have the nitrogen you would have foam extraordinaire.

Start with a cylinder or CO2 for your beers, seltzer, and for force carbing.
It's been a journey but now beer is pouring well.

Thanks for the insight!!!

 

[RussW]

Unless you plan on serving a nitrogenated stout through one of several different faucets specifically designed for that purpose or are pushing your beer a ridiculously long distance (which will create a whole different set of issues you’re not ready for yet), 100% CO2 and a property balanced system is all you need.
Refer to this carbonation chart to fine tune your system.

Edit: spelling

Thanks for the insight!!Cheers!

 

[J2W2]

I love my stout tap (I love stouts), but it is definitely added overhead. Unless you only drink stouts and porters, you're going to want 100% CO2 for most of your beers. To have both, you'll need a CO2 tank (probably 5 or 10 pound) and a beer gas (nitrogen/CO2 - probably 5 pound) tank, which means two regulators (beer gas uses a completely different regulator that threads the other direction so you can't mix them up). Most CO2 tanks are aluminum, while beer gas tanks are almost always steel (to handle the additional pressure). I have 5 and 10 pound CO2 tanks that I purchased years ago; I can take those to a local company and get them filled (keeping my tanks). When I purchased my first beer gas tank I had to buy the tank (used) and the gas. Now I can simply bring in the empty tank and exchange it for a full one, paying only for the gas. Most places will do the same with CO2; it was just easier to have my own tanks when I started kegging. Definitely check around, if you haven't already, and make sure someone in your area sells small tanks of beer gas for home brewers. When I got my first beer gas tank, there was only one place in my town that sold it, and at first they said I'd have to get a 20 pound tank, which was crazy (5 pounds will probably carb and serve 4-5 5-gallon kegs). They were finally able to locate a 5 pound tank for me at one of their locations in California. Home brewing has grown a lot since then, and they now keep 5 and 10 pound beer gas tanks on hand all the time. I kind of crammed a lot of info in here, but hopefully it's helpful.

 

[DuncB]

Interested to know how much they actually put in your 5 pound Mixed nitro tank.
I can only get 350 grammes of CO2 and 1050 grammes of nitrogen in my 5 kg tank ( perhaps 12 lb tank ). Stands about 24 inches high.

 

[passedpawn]

FYI the nitro/co2 mix is good for wine. I'm building a bar and one of the taps will have (still) wine on it. This is my plan anyway.

 

[DuncB]

Couldn't you just push it with Nitrogen, then it won't carb up?
Or put the wine in a bag in a keg and the CO2 outside of that to force the wine out?

 

[day_trippr]

Hmmm...Unless it's a sparkling wine I'd think the conventional straight argon might be a better choice for propulsion...

Cheers!

 

[DuncB]

I'm thinking wine in a bag and gravity would be easiest.

 

[Vale71]

New to kegging here,
what is the consensus on using 100% CO2 or Nitrogen/CO2 mix for carbonation? Pros/cons.

Carbonating with CO2.

Pros: works.
Cons: none

Carbonating with beer gas.

Pros: none
Cons: it doesn't work at all.

 

[passedpawn]

Hmmm...Unless it's a sparkling wine I'd think the conventional straight argon might be a better choice for propulsion...

Cheers!

There is a scant, but detectable, amount of CO2 in all wine. Experts say when that CO2 is not present, the flavor is negatively affected. Pushing with a nitro/c02 mix will ensure that that low-level c02 is present.

I read this in an article a while back and can't find it now, but it was a scholarly article on the subject and was very believable. Anyway, it's what I wanted to hear ( ) as I might want to have a stout tap.

 

[passedpawn]

I'm thinking wine in a bag and gravity would be easiest.

haha, yes. But I'm building a fancy bar with a 3-tap cobra and I want one of the taps to serve wine. The wine will be kegged under the bar. Need to push up.

 

[passedpawn]

Carbonating with CO2.

Pros: works.
Cons: none

Carbonating with beer gas.

Pros: none
Cons: it doesn't work at all.

^^ Clear, on topic answer to the OP's question. Upvote!

 

[J2W2]

Interested to know how much they actually put in your 5 pound Mixed nitro tank.
I can only get 350 grammes of CO2 and 1050 grammes of nitrogen in my 5 kg tank ( perhaps 12 lb tank ). Stands about 24 inches high.

So roughly three pounds in a twelve pound tank? Is that the weight of the tank (empty or full) or the amount it's supposed to hold?

I'm not sure how much they actually put in my five pound tank, or how much it weighs full or empty. I'll need to weigh my current tank when it's empty, then the full one on my next exchange, but I'm at least a good year if not two away from that. My tank is probably 20 inches high - bottom to top of the valve - it's hard to measure exactly where it's located. It currently reads 1,750 PSI; I'm not sure what the PSI was when I first got it.

 

[DuncB]

That's the weight it can hold of CO2 ( which is liquid ). Both tanks are ( just measured 28 inch to valve and 5 inch diameter).
The nitro mix is all gas so you can't fit that much in.
So the same tank and same meter with CO2 only reads 800psi or 5500 kPa
and the Nitro tank has a pressure reading of your 1250 psi or 8500 kPa.

The tank fill guy had to freeze my nitro tank to help get that fill.

Not sure if that helps.

haha, yes. But I'm building a fancy bar with a 3-tap cobra and I want one of the taps to serve wine. The wine will be kegged under the bar. Need to push up.

Put the wine in a wine bag inside a keg with tube from the wine bag tap ( there are connectors available for this ) to the liquid post dip tube . Connect liquid out with ball lock etc to your " fancy bar " tap as per normal kegerator build.

Put inline regulator supply of gas to the gas keg post at a very low psi. Then wine will be under pressure driven but not carbed and dispense will be easy. This will save your expensive beer gas ( nitro ) for proper use on a stout tap.

Or serve prosecco and use the CO2!

 

[day_trippr]

^That^ is brilliant! Where would one look for such a bag?

Cheers!

 

[day_trippr]

There is a scant, but detectable, amount of CO2 in all wine. Experts say when that CO2 is not present, the flavor is negatively affected. Pushing with a nitro/c02 mix will ensure that that low-level c02 is present.[...]

I would be wary of the notion of using beer gas wrt "scant but detectable" CO2, because certainly most mixes that are considered beer gas in our space at least includes significant CO2 content that over time will achieve what physics demands (ie: it surely won't be "scant")...

Cheers!

 

[passedpawn]

I would be wary of the notion of using beer gas wrt "scant but detectable" CO2, because certainly most mixes that are considered beer gas in our space at least includes significant CO2 content that over time will achieve what physics demands (ie: it surely won't be "scant")...

Cheers!

I'll keep an eye on it. As you'd expect, the PSI for the gas pushing the wine will be low, only a couple psi I'd imagine.

 

[passedpawn]

Put the wine in a wine bag inside a keg with tube from the wine bag tap ( there are connectors available for this ) to the liquid post dip tube . Connect liquid out with ball lock etc to your " fancy bar " tap as per normal kegerator build.

Put inline regulator supply of gas to the gas keg post at a very low psi. Then wine will be under pressure driven but not carbed and dispense will be easy. This will save your expensive beer gas ( nitro ) for proper use on a stout tap.

Or serve prosecco and use the CO2!

Hmmm... that's an interesting idea. I'll probably just use the beer gas though, as it seems simpler. If I get any carbonation, I'll go with your plan B.

I have prosecco on tap right now haha. I start with a moscato grape, back-sweeten, course and sterile filter, then 50 psi.

 

[FromZwolle]

slightly off topic, but is there any source for small canisters of beer gas?

google hasn't found anything for me.

 

[DuncB]

^That^ is brilliant! Where would one look for such a bag?

Cheers!

Firstly you can recycle the wine bags that are in bag in box wine the tap pops out and then you clean and sterilise bag fill, squeeze the air out put tap back in. Or put tap in open it and squeeze to get air out then close tap ( easier ).

The tap connector between bag and post.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Easy-To-Re...4a1d922e2a8e8a8a1bd6|ampid:PL_CLK|clp:2334524
Wine bags
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Liter-BI...673477?hash=item1a3e23a685:g:e~AAAOSwMmBV5lV4
I'm sure there are lots on amazon etc as well. Probably wine supplies also.

I bought mine in the uk of uk ebay ages ago. I do have some that are 5 litre and 10 litre and I think they even come in 20 litres.
The 5 litre ones are foil type plastic not clear.

Great if you want to do " cask ale " they can handle a bit of pressure from the inside as well.

Now I've mentioned this I probably ought to set it up on my keg fridge as well, but I don't mind bottling the wine but it would be good for a party to have it on draught. You wouldn't even need to use CO2 could just use air pumped in, although I'm not sure how gas permeable the bags are. But they'd hardly be selling wine in boxes if it all oxidised on the shelf in the supermarket / bottle shop.
Would be a good addition to your all singing and dancing kegerator build that you recently posted great pictures of.

 

[DuncB]

I have prosecco on tap right now haha. I start with a moscato grape, back-sweeten, course and sterile filter, then 50 psi.

Like the idea of the prosecco.
I made an elderflower fizz and pressure fermented that and then straight into bottles counter pressure filled so no sediment or carbing needed. I did use a keg for this as the fermentasaurus only rated to 35psi and to get 6 vols I needed a lot more pressure in keg at ferment temp.
Worked well though, but that prosecco looks good. What do you back sweeten with? and why the filtering? my wine was perfectly clear without that step.

 

[bracconiere]

straight argon might be a better choice for propulsion...

.....so ED for wine drinkers? lol, i think barrel aging with a tap would be better.....

 

[DuncB]

I think you really should do the aging before this final packaging and dispense.