New Kal clone electric brewery setup in HK

[gunzy]

Hi All,

This is my first real post and I'll be using this thread to document most of my build.

I am located in HK (where it seems that many of you import your components) and have been pouring over posts and threads on how to setup all aspects of my future electric brewery.

One thing I noticed early on was that most of the stuff that most builders buy are sourced from China anyway, so why re-import it in from the States.

Secondly, in terms of the electrical components, most of the connectors used in the States are not to code in HK. NEMA is only essentially only used in North America, whereas we use both the IEC/BS standards in HK. For example GFCI basically don't exist in HK in the same way that they exist in North America (we use RCDs or RCCBs).

As most wiring diagrams are based on the US power system, I had to really strip down and re-draw a diagram more suited to HK. Since I will be running only 240V throughout the entire system (no transformers), it should simplify much of the build.

I have also decided to use din rail mounted contactors and components instead of the surface mounted items (except the SSRs). Firstly, they are easier to find, secondly, they seem to be easier to install and organize.

For pumps, I've decided to go for solar water heater pumps with copper/brass impeller heads. Definitely better then the plastic pumps but at USD$60-70 each, much cheaper then importing march or chugger pumps.

I splurged on PID and timer controllers and opted for Omrons. I figured since I was saving so much on plumbing hardware, I'll give these guys a shot. I also found these temperature sensors(http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Shea...-protection-head-fast-delivery/955966505.html) which are huge, but allows me to quickly insert and disconnect from any thermowell.

A few goals of this build and documenting of this build.
-Use single-phase 3-wire 240V throughout all diagrams
-Use Metric in all things
-Source all components outside of North America (except ingredients, you guys have good ingredients)

Nearly everything was purchased from aliexpress.com and rs-online.com, except pots, heating elements (Italian made Camel brand), and wiring which were purchased in local shops in and around HK. I find that there are items which are better to spend a bit more and buy after you have personally handled them.

Price wise, I'm paying nearly half the price of what I've seen in some of the online shops in the states. And since I'm in HK, shipping costs are significantly less then if I imported anything from the States.

Quality of each item will always be an issue with stuff you get from China. Some of the edges are not as polished, the build quality of some of the components may not be as good. If you do get anything from aliexpress.com, always buy a few extra items, for the price, it's definitely worth it.

I have not included a safe start interlock in my diagram, as I'm still not convinced if I need to at this time. I can always add on in later if necessary. I am also pondering whether to add contactors for each pump (10A should be sufficient).

View attachment Visio-Contrl panel diagram v2.0.pdf

 

[augiedoggy]

Hi All,

This is my first real post and I'll be using this thread to document most of my build.

I am located in HK (where it seems that many of you import your components) and have been pouring over posts and threads on how to setup all aspects of my future electric brewery.

One thing I noticed early on was that most of the stuff that most builders buy are sourced from China anyway, so why re-import it in from the States.

Secondly, in terms of the electrical components, most of the connectors used in the States are not to code in HK. NEMA is only essentially only used in North America, whereas we use both the IEC/BS standards in HK. For example GFCI basically don't exist in HK in the same way that they exist in North America (we use RCDs or RCCBs).

As most wiring diagrams are based on the US power system, I had to really strip down and re-draw a diagram more suited to HK. Since I will be running only 240V throughout the entire system (no transformers), it should simplify much of the build.

I have also decided to use din rail mounted contactors and components instead of the surface mounted items (except the SSRs). Firstly, they are easier to find, secondly, they seem to be easier to install and organize.

For pumps, I've decided to go for solar water heater pumps with copper/brass impeller heads. Definitely better then the plastic pumps but at USD$60-70 each, much cheaper then importing march or chugger pumps.

I splurged on PID and timer controllers and opted for Omrons. I figured since I was saving so much on plumbing hardware, I'll give these guys a shot. I also found these temperature sensors(http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Shea...-protection-head-fast-delivery/955966505.html) which are huge, but allows me to quickly insert and disconnect from any thermowell.

A few goals of this build and documenting of this build.
-Use single-phase 3-wire 240V throughout all diagrams
-Use Metric in all things
-Source all components outside of North America (except ingredients, you guys have good ingredients)

Nearly everything was purchased from aliexpress.com and rs-online.com, except pots, heating elements (Italian made Camel brand), and wiring which were purchased in local shops in and around HK. I find that there are items which are better to spend a bit more and buy after you have personally handled them.

Price wise, I'm paying nearly half the price of what I've seen in some of the online shops in the states. And since I'm in HK, shipping costs are significantly less then if I imported anything from the States.

Quality of each item will always be an issue with stuff you get from China. Some of the edges are not as polished, the build quality of some of the components may not be as good. If you do get anything from aliexpress.com, always buy a few extra items, for the price, it's definitely worth it.

I have not included a safe start interlock in my diagram, as I'm still not convinced if I need to at this time. I can always add on in later if necessary. I am also pondering whether to add contactors for each pump (10A should be sufficient).

Check out my budget build below for ideas.... The "solar" pumps I used are actually food grade PPS designed for things like drinking fountains and are good at boilingtemps...

my setup changed a lot throughout the thread and is still pretty rough compared to some but it works very well and was less than $1,500 to build including the panel.

 

[gunzy]

Augiedoggy,

Thanks for the link to your build.

I thought about the 24v DC pumps, but decided to stick with 240V for everything.

I'll post some pics of my build inn the next day or so.

 

[gunzy]

so my build is progressing at a pretty good pace, most of my photos are here

https://goo.gl/photos/GNJ84ikprFTq3YB26

Still need to wire the control box as well as paint it.

It's been a fun project

 

[augiedoggy]

Looking good.
I like the quick disconnects on the herms coil... I did something similar with my sparging arm setup... how many watts is your element? it doesnt appear to have much surface area which would have me concerned with scorching if you plan on using the same type in your Boil kettle.

 

[gunzy]

Looking good.
I like the quick disconnects on the herms coil... I did something similar with my sparging arm setup... how many watts is your element? it doesnt appear to have much surface area which would have me concerned with scorching if you plan on using the same type in your Boil kettle.

My Heating elements are only 3000W ones. Running only 1 at a time, I can just barely squeeze it in with my home standard electrical supply without the need for an electrician to come in.

When I need to upgrade, I'll get an electrician to put in a 32A supply for me and upgrade the heating elements.

 

[augiedoggy]

My Heating elements are only 3000W ones. Running only 1 at a time, I can just barely squeeze it in with my home standard electrical supply without the need for an electrician to come in.

When I need to upgrade, I'll get an electrician to put in a 32A supply for me and upgrade the heating elements.

how many amps do you have now? That actually helps in this case but even though its only 3000w the surface area being smaller is going to raise your watt density more than an ULWD element... You will likely be fine but I would avoid turning the element off and back without stiring at the time on during the boil process as thats when proteins land on the element and burn in this case... also you may get some buildup when brewing heavier beers.

my 240v 4500w ULWD ripple element draws 17.4 amps max... I have another that draws 18.1

 

[gunzy]

how many amps do you have now? That actually helps in this case but even though its only 3000w the surface area being smaller is going to raise your watt density more than an ULWD element... You will likely be fine but I would avoid turning the element off and back without stiring at the time on during the boil process as thats when proteins land on the element and burn in this case... also you may get some buildup when brewing heavier beers.

my 240v 4500w ULWD ripple element draws 17.4 amps max... I have another that draws 18.1

I'll definitely need to do some tests before I start brewing, as my heating elements don't come with much in the way of documentation.

I'll definitely keep an eye out for scorching, if it becomes a problem, I'll replace the heating element with a low density one.

 

[gunzy]

A few updates, I'm done all the main wiring, and now have the PIDs and timer to wire.

I haven't seen anyone else using these PIDs (Omron E5CC). I think my diagram is correct, will see in the next few days once I get everything wired up and powered on.

 

[Deece]

Where did you find the enclosures for your elements? Are they stainless?

 

[gunzy]

Where did you find the enclosures for your elements? Are they stainless?

I found them in a local electronics shop. The box was HKD$50, the faceplates were like HKD10 each so a little under 10USD for a set.

Yeah they are stainless steel.

If you are in HK, look up Wo Hing Radio (http://www.wohingradio.com.hk)

 

[gunzy]

And so I turned on my control panel for the first time...God what a great feeling.

Had a few wiring problems, but nothing major.

It pays to plan and draw everything up in detail before you get started. It got to the point were I had already memorized where all the connections were.

If I were to build this again, I definitely would have gotten a larger box, towards the end it was a bit of a squeeze to get everything wired up. We don't think about how much space the final bundle of wires takes, but it's enough to make everything a tight fit.

Thanks again to Kal for consolidating so much info into one package. I doubt my build could have been as painless if it weren't for what I learned from the electric brewery.

And now on to configuring, testing, and full brew test this weekend.

 

[Deece]

thanks I'm in the U.S. though, too bad they look like what I'm trying to find.

 

[itsnotrequired]

thanks I'm in the U.S. though, too bad they look like what I'm trying to find.

how about these?

http://www.garvinindustries.com/electrical-junction-boxes/4-11-16-square-junction-boxes/stainless-steel/72171-blnkss

 

[Deece]

Ouch. At that price I'll just order enclosures. Thank you though.

 

[itsnotrequired]

yeah, stainless ain't cheap...unless you are in hong kong, apparently.

 

[gunzy]

thanks I'm in the U.S. though, too bad they look like what I'm trying to find.

Maybe you can try these

http://www.garvinindustries.com/ele...4-11-16-square-junction-boxes/stainless-steel

 

[gunzy]

So I've worked out most of the bugs and wiring problems in the control panel.

Some things I learned.

1. Never connect a switch and an indicator light in series, always in parallel. Nothing blew given how little amps I was drawing at the time, but it just doesn't make sense.
2. The alarm output on PIDs and timers all require supplying power to 1 of the terminals (terminal 10 for my PIDs). The alarm switch is then connect to terminal 9, and the neutral leg must be connected to terminal 12. I know most of you reading this probably already knew this (or the basic concept), but I guess it's one of those things you have to wire to understand.
3. The Pause push button switch I wired up for my timer is practically useless, it needs to be either a 2-position switch or a push and hold switch. I ended up taking it out.

I've updated my schematics to reflect most of the changes that I've done up to now.

All I have to do now is wire the heating element cables, redo the power cables on the pumps, and do some modifications on the grain basket I got.

View attachment Control panel diagram v3.0.pdf

 

[itsnotrequired]

So I've worked out most of the bugs and wiring problems in the control panel.

Some things I learned.

1. Never connect a switch and an indicator light in series, always in parallel. Nothing blew given how little amps I was drawing at the time, but it just doesn't make sense.

a light wired in parallel with a switch would not turn on and off with the switch, since it would be 'jumpered' around the switch. i think you mean wire a light and the associated load in parallel, like you are showing. wiring the pump receptacle and associated indicating light in series would result in the amps drawn by the pump also flowing through the light.

 

[gunzy]

a light wired in parallel with a switch would not turn on and off with the switch, since it would be 'jumpered' around the switch. i think you mean wire a light and the associated load in parallel, like you are showing. wiring the pump receptacle and associated indicating light in series would result in the amps drawn by the pump also flowing through the light.

Thanks for explaining that more clearly, but yeah exactly that.

 

[gunzy]

It was a lot of fun this weekend doing water tests plus turning on the heating element in the HLT for the first time.

Glad to say that there are no wiring problems, didn't burn anything down. All the components I bought works extremely well.

I still have a few leaks in the pump connections as well as the sight guage, but nothing major. I will also try changing the configuration of my pumps from flowing horizontally(left to right) to flowing vertically (top to bottom).

Only thing I'll be changing is moving the temperature probe port on the mash tun to the wort inlet valve from the current wort outlet valve.

The grain basket currently sits on top of 3 separate 4" diameter x 3" tall Chinese steamer racks (https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=cYL_VfuCIobB0gTeob3YDw). I was originally going to screw the racks to the basket, but I am thinking it's not necessary anymore.

With the HLT heating element and both pumps on, I have been drawing about 15.3A. Not too bad, but will need to do a few more tests.

 

[BrunDog]

Nice!!

-BD

 

[dmcman73]

It was a lot of fun this weekend doing water tests plus turning on the heating element in the HLT for the first time.

Glad to say that there are no wiring problems, didn't burn anything down. All the components I bought works extremely well.

I still have a few leaks in the pump connections as well as the sight guage, but nothing major. I will also try changing the configuration of my pumps from flowing horizontally(left to right) to flowing vertically (top to bottom).

Only thing I'll be changing is moving the temperature probe port on the mash tun to the wort inlet valve from the current wort outlet valve.

The grain basket currently sits on top of 3 separate 4" diameter x 3" tall Chinese steamer racks (https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=cYL_VfuCIobB0gTeob3YDw). I was originally going to screw the racks to the basket, but I am thinking it's not necessary anymore.

With the HLT heating element and both pumps on, I have been drawing about 15.3A. Not too bad, but will need to do a few more tests.

Looks really good!

One word of caution on using those steel racks you have, with enough weight on them they start to slide the shelves down past the notches especially once the plastic clips inside of them starts warming up from the heat. I had one that (luckily I only had water in the kettles) the shelf start sliding down one of the legs and if I hadn't pulled the kettle off the shelf, the water would have been everywhere.

I would suggest to either drill a hole under the rack on each leg and insert a screws to act as a stop, for safety.

 

[BrunDog]

Good tip there!

-BD

 

[gunzy]

Looks really good!

One word of caution on using those steel racks you have, with enough weight on them they start to slide the shelves down past the notches especially once the plastic clips inside of them starts warming up from the heat. I had one that (luckily I only had water in the kettles) the shelf start sliding down one of the legs and if I hadn't pulled the kettle off the shelf, the water would have been everywhere.

I would suggest to either drill a hole under the rack on each leg and insert a screws to act as a stop, for safety.

Definitely a good tip. I'm still not sure if I'm going to use the racks permanently tho. Extensive use, weight plus the heat may cause problems that I don't want. For the time being, I'll tape under the plastic to give it more grip.

 

[atoughram]

Very Nice!!!

And no e-stop button!

 

[gunzy]

Very Nice!!!

And no e-stop button!

I have an estop button on the right side of the control box. It's connected in series with the power-on keyswitch which is connected to the main power contactor.

 

[atoughram]

I have an estop button on the right side of the control box. It's connected in series with the power-on keyswitch which is connected to the main power contactor.

Gotcha - but it doesnt trip the GFI - good! :rockin:

 

[gunzy]

Gotcha - but it doesnt trip the GFI - good! :rockin:

yeah, from the forum posts, it seems I'd get sent to prison if I were to setup my control panel to trip the GFCI.

 

[BrunDog]

yeah, from the forum posts, it seems I'd get sent to prison if I were to setup my control panel to trip the GFCI.

Yes, as you should.

-BD