New Danstar Belle Saison Dry Yeast?

[drives_a_bike]

Flame out

 

[Brizzo]

Just got an honorable mention in a competition on a saison using belle saison and then soured with Brett and bugs. Definitely is a solid yeast

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

The past Friday I brewed 6 gallons and spilt it into to fermenters. Using the more classic grain bill of 95% Pilsner and 5% Munich. My OG was 1.062. I diluted one fermenter down to 1.052 and put a liter of white grape juice concentrate in the other after fermentation got going. Held ambient temp in mid 60s for 2 days before letting it go to 75 degrees. The low strength version has little airlock activity while the fortified one is still going. I'm thinking of hitting the grape concentrate one with white oak and bottle aging until Thanksgiving.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Has it been revealed where this yeast originated from?

This past weekend at a sort of informal 'people's choice' beer competition a master judge happened to be in attendance and tried my honey saison. Said the spicy-estery yeast character reminded him a lot of a Duvel, unfortunately with 8oz of honey malt and 16oz of honey added at flame out he could not detect the honey character.

Though still, this yeast, fermented high, will give a definite spicy yeast character. It's definitely not a subdued saison yeast.

 

[badlee]

The Duvel comment has been causing my brain to itch.
Has anybody brewed with that strain? Does id it the crap out of next to all of the gravity points,like Belle?
Said; I do not care where it comes from. I love it.
But that bugger of a comment has me wanting to know,for the sake of knowing.

 

[sweetcell]

Has it been revealed where this yeast originated from?

common thinking is that it's the same strain as 3711 French Saison (origin: Brasserie Thiriez). same (kinda boring) ester profile, it attenuates just like it...

The Duvel comment has been causing my brain to itch.
Has anybody brewed with that strain? Does id it the crap out of next to all of the gravity points,like Belle?

the Duvel strain is a good attenuator, but it's not a crazy one like BS. Duvel beer is very dry because of the high amount of sugar used. i get a pear ester from the Duvel strain that i definitely don't get from BS/3711.

 

[m00ps]

common thinking is that it's the same strain as 3711 French Saison (origin: Brasserie Thiriez). same (kinda boring) ester profile, it attenuates just like it...



the Duvel strain is a good attenuator, but it's not a crazy one like BS. Duvel beer is very dry because of the high amount of sugar used. i get a pear ester from the Duvel strain that i definitely don't get from BS/3711.

Yeah Duvel and BS/3711 are very different. Duvel is definitely apple/pear focused and BS/3711 is very rooted in "saison" esters with 3711 being more lemony and bright, BS having mroe of a balance between citrus and spice

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I definitely didn't intend to imply BS was the Duvel strain. I was curious if we knew it was 3711/French origin or closer to a Belgian origin.

The high ferment temps and slight underpitch and warm pitch temp probably played a big role in creating a more 'Belgian' ester profile. I have this saison entered into the Badger Brewoff with the judging being this weekend so I'll report back how a BS saison with high ferment temps does in BJCP competition (the Duvel comment came during a somewhat informal competition that happened to have a master judge in attendance).

 

[drives_a_bike]

I just took a gravity reading from my Rye Saison...1.002!! Ends up being 6.6% and 30ibu. The sample is delicious!! I'll let it sit a couple more weeks and keg it up.

 

[midlantic]

I was curious what was written on homebrewtalk about Belle Saison yeast and I saw this thread lasted for three years and had 64 pages of posts. Whoever started this discussion must be some kind of brewing master. A veritable genius. Probably really handsome too. A legend?

Legend in his own mind is more like it. Ahem. Getting back to earth, I thought I should get over my embarassment and say that I finally got around to using it. Long story short -- I like it.

Long story long, I cobbled together the following recipe:

5 Gallon yield, Brew in a Bag

5 lbs pilsner malt
1 lb white wheat malt
1 lb Vienna malt
8 oz oatmeal
8 oz buckwheat (kasha)
12 oz rye berries (I meant to use 8 oz but got a bit to much from the bulk bin)

Cooked up the oats, buckwheat and rye until soft, added a bit more cool water until the temp was 153F and mashed with the rest of the malt at 153F for an hour. How much water total in the mash? I lost track, sorry.

Pulled and squeezed the bag then boiled for 90 minutes with 1 oz Saaz at 90 minutes and 1 oz at 10 minutes.

Cooled to 70F, rehydrated the yeast per instructions, and did a half-serious job of sloshing to aerate before tossing in the yeast. Stuck the fermenter in a styrofoam cooler to keep the temp up. OG was 50.

I looked at 12 hours and the airlock was bubbling. I worried a bit that I should have used a blowoff tube but it wasn't necessary. Temp rose to 78F, then bubbling stopped after 4 days, gravity continued to drop a bit until it hit 06 after a week, and let it sit for another week and then bottled with 4 oz white sugar.

Early tastings say it's quite nice. I'm terrible at describing beer, so I'll use vague terms here. The yeast has a nice noticable Belgiany presence, but isn't slamming you with massive spice and phenols and all that.

I share what other people have said about it as far as making a dry beer -- there's no significant sweetness or maltiness -- but it hasn't left the beer unidimensional -- you can still taste a cereal grain contribution from the oats, buckwheat and rye. Nice head, very refreshing, cloudy straw yellow color. I look forward to drinking this when the weather turns hot.

 

[sweetcell]

my latest experience with BS: i brewed a 1.091 all-citra IIPA. wlp007 got me down to 1.024'ish, which was too high (might have worked as an american barleywine but that wasn't what i had in mind). so i used BS to drive down attenuation. i pitched about one and a quarter packs into about 2.5 liters of 1.060 starter, gave it an hour with the stir-bar, then 8 hours without, and pitched into the IIPA.

i would have been happy with 1.012-1.014... but ooooooh not, not with BS: 1.007. that puts me at about 11.8% abv. effing hell.

bottled this past friday (5 days ago). sample tasted great. i didn't detect any alcohol heat and it didn't taste thin.

given how aggro BS is, there is a chance the beer is already carb'ed. i'll give it a taste this weekend.

=========

the other 3/4 of the second pack went into a saison that 3724 got an OG of 1.061 down to somewhere in the upper 1.020's (don't have my notes with me at the moment). BS got it down to 1.002 (7.9% abv). also bottled last friday. will also give a taste this weekend.

i have lower expectations on this one: it was kept hot on the 3724 cake for too long. i got some autolysis off-flavors from it. that'll teach me to try to get 3724 to finish the job.

 

[doublebogey10]

my latest experience with BS: i brewed a 1.091 all-citra IIPA. wlp007 got me down to 1.024'ish, which was too high (might have worked as an american barleywine but that wasn't what i had in mind). so i used BS to drive down attenuation. i pitched about one and a quarter packs into about 2.5 liters of 1.060 starter, gave it an hour with the stir-bar, then 8 hours without, and pitched into the IIPA.

i would have been happy with 1.012-1.014... but ooooooh not, not with BS: 1.007. that puts me at about 11.8% abv. effing hell.

bottled this past friday (5 days ago). sample tasted great. i didn't detect any alcohol heat and it didn't taste thin.

given how aggro BS is, there is a chance the beer is already carb'ed. i'll give it a taste this weekend.

=========

the other 3/4 of the second pack went into a saison that 3724 got an OG of 1.061 down to somewhere in the upper 1.020's (don't have my notes with me at the moment). BS got it down to 1.002 (7.9% abv). also bottled last friday. will also give a taste this weekend.

i have lower expectations on this one: it was kept hot on the 3724 cake for too long. i got some autolysis off-flavors from it. that'll teach me to try to get 3724 to finish the job.

How did the IIPA turn out? Any saison-y flavor attributes come through or did the BS simply come in and chew the hell out of it?

Also, what was the process with the starter on that? Did you pitch BS starter in secondary and rack on top or add straight to primary?

 

[sweetcell]

How did the IIPA turn out? Any saison-y flavor attributes come through or did the BS simply come in and chew the hell out of it?

the IIPA is a bit of a mess, frankly. it's entirely drinkable but i wouldn't make it again exactly like this - i would take better care of the fermentation. good learning tho.

there is some saison'y character to it, but there is so much else going on (it's a citra bomb, a touch of autolysis, some alcohol sweetness, etc) that the saison spiciness is muddled in there. had i kept the beer at room temp, instead of heating it up to the upper 70's, i suspect i wouldn't have gotten any saison character.

Also, what was the process with the starter on that? Did you pitch BS starter in secondary and rack on top or add straight to primary?

boiled up 2.5 liters of 1.060'ish starter, an hour with the stir-bar (not longer because i won't want to oxidize it), 8 hours without, and pitched the whole starter into the IIPA in primary. i considered going to secondary but feared the O2 exposure and infection risk. looking back i might have racked because i got a little autolysis from the initial yeast (wlp007). hindsight...

i got a little krausen by day 2, which faded after another few days and from then on out it was a slow burn. took over 2 weeks to finish out.

 

[mgregg]

So my first time using this yeast and this is what's happening 2 hours after pitching 1 rehydrated packet in a 1.05 saison:

 

[Fetuccini]

Has anyone managed to get a higher final gravity with Belle Saison so it's not so thin? I'm aiming for 1.008 - 1.010. Love the flavours it produces but want a bit more body. Tried adding up to 10% carapils and mashing at a 161 degrees but still get a final gravity of between 1.004 and 1.006. Seems this yeast eats everything including the unfermentables.

 

[rhys333]

Has anyone managed to get a higher final gravity with Belle Saison so it's not so thin? I'm aiming for 1.008 - 1.010. Love the flavours it produces but want a bit more body. Tried adding up to 10% carapils and mashing at a 161 degrees but still get a final gravity of between 1.004 and 1.006. Seems this yeast eats everything including the unfermentables.

You could try oats. They'll still convert and ferment but might produce a silkier mouthfeel. I haven't tried this trick yet with Belle, but it works great with other strains.

 

[sweetcell]

You could try oats. They'll still convert and ferment but might produce a silkier mouthfeel. I haven't tried this trick yet with Belle, but it works great with other strains.

BS already produces a very slick mouthfeel (via glycerol, if i remember correctly).

i'd be concerned that adding oats would amount to turning your beer into a slip-n-slide for your mouth

 

[rhys333]

BS already produces a very slick mouthfeel (via glycerol, if i remember correctly).

i'd be concerned that adding oats would amount to turning your beer into a slip-n-slide for your mouth

I know 3711 produces that slick mouthfeel, but does Belle as well? I'm curious because i'm using Belle for the first time this weekend and I really don't like that 3711 type slickness. I'll sub in sugar if it does!

 

[rhys333]

Well I went ahead and brewed a saison with Belle yesterday. Added 10% Rye for mouthfeel and a bit of zip.

 

[Fetuccini]

Great look forward to hearing how it tastes. We just did another recipe but put the carapils up to around 15%, see if that works.

 

[rhys333]

Great look forward to hearing how it tastes. We just did another recipe but put the carapils up to around 15%, see if that works.

It should have no problem with head retention. Mine too.

 

[Bosh]

Brewed this strain six times now. For whatever it's worth my best beer with this yeast was mixing it with Mangrove Jack's French Saison yeast (old Belgian Ale yeast relabelled). Less of a yeasty bite than I had with either by itself.

In my experience, saisons go very very well with American hops, as long as you reign in the IBUs. This strain is so attenuative that it makes the bitterness really scream but a CTZ/Citra dry hop was just beautiful.

Also tend to prefer this strain with 2row over pilsner since it's already more than dry enough for me with 2row.

 

[rhys333]

Brewed this strain six times now. For whatever it's worth my best beer with this yeast was mixing it with Mangrove Jack's French Saison yeast (old Belgian Ale yeast relabelled). Less of a yeasty bite than I had with either by itself.

In my experience, saisons go very very well with American hops, as long as you reign in the IBUs. This strain is so attenuative that it makes the bitterness really scream but a CTZ/Citra dry hop was just beautiful.

Also tend to prefer this strain with 2row over pilsner since it's already more than dry enough for me with 2row.

What sort of IBUs are you talking? I just brewed a rye saison with it to 25-30 IBUs.

 

[Bosh]

What sort of IBUs are you talking? I just brewed a rye saison with it to 25-30 IBUs.

The one I have right now I calculate to have about 18-20 IBUs which tastes subjectively to have about the same bitterness as a US-05 malty APA with what I calculated to be 30 IBUs.

So that rye saison should taste pretty bitter but shouldn't be a problem if you like IBUs. It's just the one I made with 50 IBUs was really really harsh until I aged it for a few months and I normally have no problem with really hoppy beer.

 

[tiredofbuyingbeer]

So, I'm brewing a blackcurrant saison with Belle. I made a thread with the recipe on that sub-forum.

Question:
I pitched on Saturday. Five days later, on Thursday, I took a gravity sample, and it's at about 1.005. This is from an OG of about 1.059. I had originally planned to primary for two weeks and then to rack onto fruit for two more. However, if things are stable come Sunday, perhaps I could get away with only one week in primary and then either an extra week on the fruit or else get it into bottles sooner. (Originally, I had planned on letting it sit in secondary for two weeks as well, but I could also do another week if I rack sooner.) Sound reasonable?

I'm not sure how much it needs to clean up. The sample tastes quite nice. I fermented warm, and the ester profile reminds me of a stronger version of a Hefeweizen plus some saison funkiness.

 

[sweetcell]

if things are stable come Sunday, perhaps I could get away with only one week in primary and then either an extra week on the fruit

i'd go with this.

 

[Bosh]

So, I'm brewing a blackcurrant saison with Belle. I made a thread with the recipe on that sub-forum.

Question:
I pitched on Saturday. Five days later, on Thursday, I took a gravity sample, and it's at about 1.005. This is from an OG of about 1.059. I had originally planned to primary for two weeks and then to rack onto fruit for two more. However, if things are stable come Sunday, perhaps I could get away with only one week in primary and then either an extra week on the fruit or else get it into bottles sooner. (Originally, I had planned on letting it sit in secondary for two weeks as well, but I could also do another week if I rack sooner.) Sound reasonable?

I'm not sure how much it needs to clean up. The sample tastes quite nice. I fermented warm, and the ester profile reminds me of a stronger version of a Hefeweizen plus some saison funkiness.

Stuff ferments really fast. Keep in mind that gravity might drop a few points more (stuff is insanely attenuative) so the little bit of sweetless still left will be gone, stuff can taste subjectively harsh to me until it ages a while since it doesn't leave much sweetness to balance anything else.

Keep in mind though it won't taste thin, the yeast results in beers that taste WAY fuller than their gravity readings indicate.

 

[tiredofbuyingbeer]

i'd go with this.

Thanks!

 

[tiredofbuyingbeer]

Stuff ferments really fast. Keep in mind that gravity might drop a few points more (stuff is insanely attenuative) so the little bit of sweetless still left will be gone, stuff can taste subjectively harsh to me until it ages a while since it doesn't leave much sweetness to balance anything else.

Keep in mind though it won't taste thin, the yeast results in beers that taste WAY fuller than their gravity readings indicate.

I agree with all this. Just to be clear, though, I have no complaints about the sample. Tastes like a saison should to me, except warm, flat, and a bit yeasty. Only the ester profile is hefe-ish (think: banana/fruit flavors). The body is more like a saison. The thought was: as-is, without the fruit additions, it's drinkable now, so I wasn't sure how much it would benefit from aging in its present state vs. in secondary with additions.

 

[Shenanigans]

I haven't added anything to this thread in a while bit saw it pop up on my replies just now.
Since I last posted something I have used it for a nice Cali-belgique clone.

The associated thread is here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7809879#post7809879

I must admit from the 3 times I have brewed with it the beer really improves with ageing.