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ehk089

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so I built a mash temp controller w a Auber ez boil on 240 running a 5500w element....I used the diagram below but omitted the fuses and the element switch. It heats great, problem is, once it heats to mash temp it keeps going up. The element runs full bore no matter if it’s reached temp or not...could it be something wrong with this wiring, or perhaps I’m not programming the controller right? Help!
 
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Most likely is a faulty SSR, failing in the always-on position is common.

Need a little more information to diagnose completely. Is the indicator light on the 120 flashing appropriately? The indicator on the SSR? Did you try disconnecting the Red line from point #1 in the diagram (safely) and then checking the resistance from 1-2 while the Auber is Set to 0?
 
I’m thinking it’s the ssr too, but it’s brandnew.... the red light does flash on when the Ez boil calls for it...if the ssr was shot, wouldn’t the light not work?
 
I’m thinking it’s the ssr too, but it’s brandnew.... the red light does flash on when the Ez boil calls for it...if the ssr was shot, wouldn’t the light not work?
If the SSR has latched in the on state, the light will continue to blink (following the control input.) The output side of the SSR is electrically isolated from the input, and the SSR LED is on the input side. There is no way for the LED to know that the output is not switching correctly. That is the reason that the "Element Firing Light" is critical to indicating operational failures. The external lamp tells you what the SSR output is doing, unlike the LED in the SSR.

Also, leaving out the fuses and the mechanical switch is a bad idea. They are in there for safety reasons. Your unit is malfunctioning, and not having the safely features available puts you, your house, etc. at more risk. There are some places where saving a few bucks is penny wise, pound foolish.

Brew on :mug:
 
Looks like it’s a faulty relay, hopefully that’s it.
 
Update: relay was indeed shot. Replaced, and the ezboil and heat element are now working in sync properly... I did a test for a while today and found 2 strange problems. 1) my instant read thermometer is reading h20 in mash tun 20 degrees cooler than my Auber temp probe
2) when reaching temp, a couple times the temp continued to climb (despite no actual increase) until 900 degrees and then said it couldn’t read temp..... I’m using a 1.5” probe from Auber inside a stainless tee coming off outlet of mash tun. I’m going to call auberins for help tomorrow, anyone have any ideas?
 
Sounds like you have a lot of resistance in your RTD circuits. If you have a multimeter check the resistance while everything is powered off. ~1 ohm would be ideal.
 
2) when reaching temp, a couple times the temp continued to climb (despite no actual increase) until 900 degrees and then said it couldn’t read temp..... I’m using a 1.5” probe from Auber inside a stainless tee coming off outlet of mash tun. I’m going to call auberins for help tomorrow, anyone have any ideas?

Not sure if this will help your specific problem (the 900 degrees is scary!)... I too use the same set up for my temp probe. What I am finding is unless I keep my pump running, flowing wort across the probe it will cool slightly, enough to read LESS than actual kettle temperature by several degrees. So the PID calls for heating when in fact the kettle contents are at the proper temperature. Major issue when trying to maintain mash temp. I find I have to adjust the PID down about 2-3 degrees to achieve the desired temp.

I think I'm going to put another hole in the kettle and install the probe directly into the wort - just below the rack my bag sits on.

Cheers!
 
well i moved the probe to a tee on the hlt for the coil output to mash tun and its running fine now.....not sure if something eas off on the connection to the probe, or what, but its working fine now....just reading a few degrees higher since its the heated water coming to dump back into the mash. Ill probably just install another little analog thermometer about halfway down the mash tun so I can adjust to that temp.....ive learned a lot on this build.
 
further question...since im new to an e herms system....when you are circulating the wort constantly throughout mash, should the pump be running full bore into the top of the mash tun? Would it be better on efficiency to run at a trickle?....my first brew was so screwed up (175 degree mash due to controller going haywire) so I couldnt check efficinecy on that. It seems like the guys from electricbrewery.com say to run it full bore. It seems counter intutitive to me though, and would seem like during a vorlauf how you run as slow as possible to get max extraction and not compress the grain bed.
 
Glad you found your problem!

I do eBIAB in a 16 gal kettle with a rack sitting about 3" off the bottom that the bag rests on. So I draw from the space below the bag. I use a March pump and throttle the flow - on the out-put side - to just a good steady flow, more than a trickle for sure but much less than full bore! I find that with high O.G. beers - more grain - I have to slow down even more or I will dry out the element. Basically adjust the flow to how it runs through the grain bed.

Depending on what pump you run, you may have the same problem with a HERMS system if you pump too much volume the pump could over take the amount of wort available to it.

Cheers!
 
further question...since im new to an e herms system....when you are circulating the wort constantly throughout mash, should the pump be running full bore into the top of the mash tun?

When you are holding (or changing) the temperature during the mash you have more control over the temperature if you pump faster. The limiting factor is how fast your false bottom can drain, you don't want to create suction and get everything compressed and stuck. If you're curious about how fast you can pump, you could let the mash tun freely drain into a secondary pot (wort grant) and pump from there through your HERMS and back into the mash tun. You can adjust the pump so that the pot doesn't get emptied.

When you are sparging you do get a benefit to adding/draining slowly, it allows the new water to dilute the grain bed more thoroughly and nets better extraction.
 
...

When you are sparging you do get a benefit to adding/draining slowly, it allows the new water to dilute the grain bed more thoroughly and nets better extraction.
This applies to fly sparging. When batch sparging the most important part of the sparge is stirring aggressively after adding the sparge water. The stirring is what gives you homogeneous dilution of the residual wort in the grain bed. Sparge water addition and sparged wort run-off can be as fast as your system will allow. Obviously, you can't stir to get good dilution when fly sparging.

The other important reason for slow flow during a fly sparge is to minimize the potential for channeling thru the grain bed (which allows the sparge water to bypass most of the grain.) Channeling is the number one cause of poor lauter efficiency when fly sparging.

Brew on :mug:
 
Ok so I’m using bag rather than a manifold so it shouldn’t get stuck ever, but I’m batch sparging so as long as it gets a nice long stir that should be fine too...thanks!
 
Update: relay was indeed shot. Replaced, and the ezboil and heat element are now working in sync properly... I did a test for a while today and found 2 strange problems. 1) my instant read thermometer is reading h20 in mash tun 20 degrees cooler than my Auber temp probe
2) when reaching temp, a couple times the temp continued to climb (despite no actual increase) until 900 degrees and then said it couldn’t read temp..... I’m using a 1.5” probe from Auber inside a stainless tee coming off outlet of mash tun. I’m going to call auberins for help tomorrow, anyone have any ideas?
just to reference what brand ssrs have been noted to have failure you you share what brand of SSR it was? Was it one of the Fotek clones by chance or a white one? or was it an auber brand?

Also as far as your temp probe, did you make sure the temp probe type in the menu is set for the type of probe your using (pt100) Dont assume it will be setup right just because you bought them both from auber. They sell different types of thermocouples and rtds.
 
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further question...since im new to an e herms system....when you are circulating the wort constantly throughout mash, should the pump be running full bore into the top of the mash tun? Would it be better on efficiency to run at a trickle?....my first brew was so screwed up (175 degree mash due to controller going haywire) so I couldnt check efficinecy on that. It seems like the guys from electricbrewery.com say to run it full bore. It seems counter intutitive to me though, and would seem like during a vorlauf how you run as slow as possible to get max extraction and not compress the grain bed.
My 2 cents is NOT to run full bore, I recirc at a slow 1.5-1.8 gpm on my flowmeter and get not to sound like a broken record, but I get over 90% eff this way. As you guessed it help tremendously against grain compacting and channeling.
 
just to reference what brand ssrs have been noted to have failure you you share what brand of SSR it was? Was it one of the Fotek clones by chance or a white one? or was it an auber brand?

Also as far as your temp probe, did you make sure the temp probe type in the menu is set for the type of probe your using (pt100) Dont assume it will be setup right just because you bought them both from auber. They sell different types of thermocouples and rtds.

The ssr was from auberins...I replaced it an inkbird from Amazon... I didn’t even know you could program for different types of probes...I don’t see that in the ezboil pid instructions...
 
The ssr was from auberins...I replaced it an inkbird from Amazon... I didn’t even know you could program for different types of probes...I don’t see that in the ezboil pid instructions...
Thats interesting, usually its the generic white ones like the inkbird and fotek branded ones that fail. This is the first confirmed case of a bad auber/mgr ssr ive seen.

I dont remember setting up my ezboil but I know all the pids ive used have different probe type settings.
 
Thats interesting, usually its the generic white ones like the inkbird and fotek branded ones that fail. This is the first confirmed case of a bad auber/mgr ssr ive seen.
Isn't Auber shipping a re-branded ASH-xxDA for their SSRs?

I've melted 1 and failed 2 white box SSRs (all Fotek stamped, but who knows). I'm getting tired of buying thermal paste, at this point I'm going to switch to an over-sized crydom and be done with it.
 
Both the ssr from Auber, and the inkbird from Amazon came in the exact same packaging: brown box w ssr stamped in black and no other markings. The cheapy white box one is what is on my still dragon voltage regulator for my boil kettle, and that one has been working fine for a few months...
 
The ssr was from auberins...I replaced it an inkbird from Amazon... I didn’t even know you could program for different types of probes...I don’t see that in the ezboil pid instructions...

Thats interesting, usually its the generic white ones like the inkbird and fotek branded ones that fail. This is the first confirmed case of a bad auber/mgr ssr ive seen.

I dont remember setting up my ezboil but I know all the pids ive used have different probe type settings.

The EZBoils are PT-100 RTD only.

Brew on :mug:
 
Isn't Auber shipping a re-branded ASH-xxDA for their SSRs?

I've melted 1 and failed 2 white box SSRs (all Fotek stamped, but who knows). I'm getting tired of buying thermal paste, at this point I'm going to switch to an over-sized crydom and be done with it.
The white ones are all generics. (We are talking about the ssrs not the packaging here) they are sold with all sorts of brand stickers including fotek , mypin inkbird and others. some are made better than others it seems but its not worth it imho finding out which is which due to the clones and multiple manufacturers. Ebrew used to sell them to but im unsure if he still does.

The auber ssrs were rebranded MGR ssrs last I looked, also sold under lots of names like Berme, MGR Mager, auber, ebrew, kodak, and others it seems the model number stays the same with a different color sticker. I bought a box of 25 crydoms for $22 shipped a month or so ago.. swapped out the bermes in my big panel which worked fine but I was told my inspector wouldnt accept only CE certification and crydoms have ul listing..
 
As I've written before, all the SSRs are probably made in one or two buildings next door to each other in China. They are all copies of somone else's design and probably stolen intelectual property. Nobody's QA/QC is better than anyone else's. You buy one, you roll the dice. One person reporting "failure" on a hobby msg board is not statistically significant.
 
As I've written before, all the SSRs are probably made in one or two buildings next door to each other in China. They are all copies of somone else's design and probably stolen intelectual property. Nobody's QA/QC is better than anyone else's. You buy one, you roll the dice. One person reporting "failure" on a hobby msg board is not statistically significant.
The reality though is your completely wrong here.. Ive seen many articles and videos showing these being disected and work with them for a living and they are in fact designed and built differently.. some of the fotek clones use components only rated for 10a while others are built with the correct components. yes many of them are just rebranded but there are different factories using different shortcuts and designs making them. I have never seen a failure reported on any of the MGR ones to date and depending on if auber changed manufacturers along with the model number change it might help point something out. maybe not but still to say they are all the same is wrong. china is a big country. the chinese made auber pids are way better quality than a chinese made rex c100 knock off..

I can pull up at least ten threads where someone has reported a failure with the white fotek branded ones.. it doesnt hurt to keep tabs and let people know what to stay away from.
 
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Send me links to articles written by professionals. I've seen the ones done by hobbyists who have no idea what they are even looking at. They are meaningless. Unless a professional disects several batches, again, not enough statistical significance to make buying choices. Hell, most of those China copy factories don't eeven use the same components through the duration of a production run.....
 
Send me links to articles written by professionals. I've seen the ones done by hobbyists who have no idea what they are even looking at. They are meaningless. Unless a professional disects several batches, again, not enough statistical significance to make buying choices. Hell, most of those China copy factories don't eeven use the same components through the duration of a production run.....
I'm not going to waste my time here as Ive done in the past its not my job to do the work to educate you on this. Something tells me you will continue to see it your own way regardless as you always seem to. Just because what you say is true with some components from some manufacturers (and I dont disagree it that it is) doesnt mean its the same across the whole country with every company. as a field engineer who repairs equipment and components that often come from places like china I can tell you there is a broad range of quality coming out of that country.
The chinese often make knock offs and inferier clones of the products they are already manufacturing for an american or foriegn company who are exploiting them for cheap labor, this is true. But things like the iphone and other quality products are made there as well. very often the same quality stuff is sold unbranded as the brand name stuff they make for fake american companies that own old but popular defunct company names.. companies like autolite,rca or magnovox that just exploit a brand people recognize.. This is another off topic discussion though..
 
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I bought a box of 25 crydoms for $22 shipped a month or so ago.

This post should be the real headline of this thread! Where are you finding a crydoms at that price? (bonus question, did you pop any open to inspect the triac?)


I've seen the ones done by hobbyists who have no idea what they are even looking at. They are meaningless. [...]not enough statistical significance to make buying choices.

Ooof. Pump the breaks bud... It's fair to say that under-rated components have been found in some of the <$10 SSRs commonly available online. You don't need an engineering degree to crack open the top of your failed part and see what components are in there. The advice here has been "if you go this route you may experience a failure," or "this is the first reported failure from this alternative source," which are both totally fair.
 
I admire your electrical component ID skills. I've never sawed one open, because I've never had one fail. TRIAC load ratings are based on operating temperature, not load amps. Are the rated op temp specs printed on the bad ones? Plenty of professional papers on the equations involved in rating them.
 
Are the rated op temp specs printed on the bad ones?
Yes and no on the rating question, an ideal data sheet would reference heat dissipation vs current so you could properly size things.

Once you get the lid off an SSR the TRIAC will be centered on the base plate and will have a part ID printed on the top. The lowest amperage TRIAC I've seen reported inside a 40amp SSR was a BTA20 series from ST: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/389/bta20-954430.pdf

FINXVEMI5MD2VSY.LARGE.jpg


Image credit to Tom - https://www.instructables.com/member/Tom Hargrave/
 
Here's a fun one, this thread got me curious enough to break apart the 40a Fotec I just took out of my control box.

20181010_172719.jpg

12a rated triac.

This SSR was functioning properly with 23a and 75% or lower duty cycle. When I ran it at 100% duty for 20-30 minutes it would get stuck on and required a power cycle to reset. Also, it ran pretty hot.

20181010_172704.jpg 20181010_171113.jpg 20181010_171214.jpg
 
This post should be the real headline of this thread! Where are you finding a crydoms at that price? (bonus question, did you pop any open to inspect the triac?)




Ooof. Pump the breaks bud... It's fair to say that under-rated components have been found in some of the <$10 SSRs commonly available online. You don't need an engineering degree to crack open the top of your failed part and see what components are in there. The advice here has been "if you go this route you may experience a failure," or "this is the first reported failure from this alternative source," which are both totally fair.[/QUOTE
I bought them from a industrial equipment liquidator on ebay.. they were all used but so far I've used 6 of them with zero issues
 
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