New Brewer -- What if I don't actually Lager my Lager?

[homebrewer_99]

First off, welcome.

Second, you didn't say where you live. It's like 10F where I am and going down to minus temps. I've had an ale in the garage (teen temps) for 3 days now cold crashing before I keg it.

Third, if you have the skills and tools search this site for the instructions for building a Son of Ferment Chiller.

 

[dionito]

I have never lagered any of my lagers and all have won competitions, including a BOS in a 300+ beer competition in WA with a Helles and BOS in the Spanish National Competition too (90 beers or so).

In both cases the beers had been kegged a few months earlier and kept cold, but without yeast or minimal yeast after fining with gelatin.

Cheers!

 

[ribsman]

Keep in mind that the origin of lagering came from storing the beer in man made caves. At the Urquell brewery, the daddy rabbit of Pilsners, they fermented at cool cavern temperatures (55 or so) and then barreled and stored the beer just down the hall in the exact same cavern until fairly recently. The only difference was they would pack ice, with a drainage canal, through the storage areas.

If you bottle, allow to carb and then lager you should achieve a decent lager. So, a large cooler with a bit of ice would solve the problem. Not too much ice. Just enough added daily to keep your bottles around 40 degrees for a few weeks.

The most important thing with lagers is your diacetyl rest. You must raise the temperature enough to allow the yeast to use up that diacetyl. Otherwise you'll have a very buttery beer. But this rest needs to come while the yeast is still active. I recommend checking your gravity after about a week and once you get to about 70% of your estimated final gravity (maybe about 1.03 or so depending on your OG), move your primary carefully (don't shake it up) to a warmer area until it ferments out.

All that said, lagers are tough. Every off flavor is amplified in lagers because they should come off very clean and crisp. Esters from fermenting too high, diacetyl from not a thorough d-rest, DMS from improper boils (must boil for 90 minutes), and on and on. Not saying to give up on making a lager, but I always recommend starting with more forgiving ales until a brewer becomes confident in the nuances of controlling fermentation.

 

[applescrap]

Please see the warm fermented lager thread if you would like some other lager ideas.

Are you sure you want a helles? I just started a thread about the fact that I brewed a bunch of helles recipe beer, but really wanted a pilsner. The title is know thy styles to find what you seek. Happy brewing and glad you are branching out.

 

[ford2110]

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/. An experiment to determine differences in Saflager 34/70
fermented at 50F vs 70F.
Great read shows you can still get a good beer at 70F.

 

[KeninMN]

You can always ferment your lager at ale temperatures:

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fermentation-temperature-pt-4-lager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

You can then bottle, allow 2 - 3 weeks for carbonation at room temperature, and then lager in the bottle for 2 - 4 weeks in your fridge. I've done Kolsch this way. It left a ton of yeast sediment in the bottle, and it took months to finally drop clear, so I'd recommend fining with gelatin. I just finished a Helles using the fast lager method mentioned earlier in this thread combined with gelatin fining, and it turned out crystal clear and fully carbonated only two weeks after bottling.

 

[Jim311]

I think the flavor profile is achieve mostly by age and not necessarily temperature. But what do I know.

 

[SpentBrains]

Go figure! One of the best beers I ever made was PRIOR to delving into the science of the process. I'd mashed in a cooler, sparged with a slotted spoon and a pitcher, fermented without temp control in a clear non-light protected carboy and lagered in two 16 quart soup pans with a loose fitting lid. Why? because I hadn't yet committed to buying a bottle capper or kegs and I only had 4 refillable flip top bottles.

The longer that beer sat between bottle refills, the more accurate my priming sugar dosages got and the better the beer was once it was carbed up. It took all winter to eventually get the last drop through the process. The best were the last 4 bottles!

Now you'd think that the open pan storage and all the other variables would have yielded inferior beer, but maybe it was just because the kit (Midwest supply's European Pilsner) and the grains contained in it were great quality? My experience however discounts a lot of what even I have come to demand in my beer making like exacting mash temp and time controls, fermenting within a tenth of a degree, insane obsession about sterilization and oxidation...

I think the longer cold (33-34F) lager made the difference.

 

[applescrap]

I have to admit, it is highly plausible they get better over time.

 

[Steveruch]

The most important thing with lagers is your diacetyl rest. You must raise the temperature enough to allow the yeast to use up that diacetyl. Otherwise you'll have a very buttery beer. .

Not really, some lager yeasts don't put out diacetyl. I've never had to do a D-rest on any of my lagers and have never had buttery beer.

 

[marshall_tucker]

I've bottle conditioned/carb'd my pilsner recipe a couple times, simply because it was before I got into kegging, it turned out great nonetheless. I just called it a Kellerbier and it worked fine. I kinda like the yeast essence.

I have a chest freezer so I was able to utilize more "ideal" fermentation temp, but as was already stated, the lagering phase is just to clarify and smooth things out more. Granted your yeast likes that temp range (I used 34/70 at 54F), you'll make a decent lager.

Btw, you'll certainly want to hit a temp around 67F-ish for a few days before you conclude your primary. This is where you knock out the off-flavors to be feared, i.e. diacetyl. I've done this at the tail end of a 2 week primary, the pilsner was in standard gravity range, nothing heavy.

 

[cableman]

I would like to throw my 2 cent opinion in. Just an Idea that worked for me. I had an old cooler with a broken lid. I put my fermenter in the cooler took a 55 gallon heavy plastic trash bag and cut a small hole in it for the air lock to come through. The bag would cover the primary and the top of the cooler. I then took a old throw and wrapped it over everything again with the air lock out. Kinda like wrapping yourself in a blanket with your head out. Now just put a 2 liter or milk jugs that has been filled with water and froze in all 4 corners. Every other day I put 4 jugs in and refroze the 4 I removed. Worked like a charm for me.

 

[neumeon]

Why not ferment the beer, raise the temperature to a diacetyl rest (in the house), bottle, keep at room temperature for 2 weeks to carb up, and then lager in the bottle? You must have a fridge or something to store the bottles in before drinking. Maybe you could find a fridge spot for a few bottles for a few weeks?

This is a great idea - similar to what pro brewers do who don't want to tie up precious fermenter space for months. After cold fermentation, brewers will sometimes carb & keg a lager, then put the kegs in cold storage for a month or 2.

 

[hufcat05]

First off, welcome.

Second, you didn't say where you live. It's like 10F where I am and going down to minus temps. I've had an ale in the garage (teen temps) for 3 days now cold crashing before I keg it.

Third, if you have the skills and tools search this site for the instructions for building a Son of Ferment Chiller.

Thanks for the welcome! I live in Maryland where the temperature can shift 50 degrees at a moments notice, so inside is my only option. That chiller looks pretty easy and cheap to make, but I don't really have space for that. I live in a small rowhouse with barely enough space for the bucket by itself. That's why I'm going to drop the $300 on that brewjacket heater/cooler combo. I do appreciate the advice though!

Anyways, I started my beer on saturday and so far so good! So far my tilt is showing good, active fermentation, I hit my desired temperature a little late (Pitched at 69 degrees, took 3 days to get to 56)

Here's the live status (gotta post it as a link since these forums don't allow embedded html): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wv9RO8jFj7ALeSCATMEiWJnfo30GtXJQRU3KM0ilkrY/pubchart?oid=1890832659&format=interactive

 

[hufcat05]

Just wanted to let everyone know what happened with this beer. I was reading that originally lagers were done in caves at ~50 degrees before modern refrigeration. With that said, I ended up doing a diacetyl rest, bottled everything, waited 2 weeks at room temperature for conditioning and then put all of the bottles into the closet at 50 degrees for 4 weeks. It was ready just in time for the super bowl and was so delicious me and my friends went through half of it that night.

It was so good, I entered it in the DC Cherry Blossom Homebrew Competition and it took 1st place in category! Not bad for the second batch of beer that I've ever made. So thanks for the advice everyone!