NEIPA Grain Bill to achieve Opaque Pale Yellow

[tjz827]

Hey guys,

I was wondering how many of you have a good handle on the NEIPA style and can suggest a good grain bill to achieve a murky full body, NEIPA that takes on the resemblance of pale yellow milk. I’m shooting for this color. See pic. Is it the base malt? High percentage of oats/wheat? Yeast? Etc.

 

[Manufacturedevolution]

Wow. That doesn't look appealing to me at all haha. To each their own I guess. I wonder if that is one where they have added flour or something to get that look. I don't think oats or wheat will do that.

 

[tjz827]

These guys are actually putting out amazing NEIPAs here in the Houston area. Super juicy with some sweetness to back it up. I know what you mean though. I can’t imagine they would be throwing flour in it but you never know.

 

[Sbe2]

Keep the malt light. I would suggest Pilsner malt as a base and whatever adjuncts you would normally do. Mine usually have an orange glow and aren’t that murky. Also, I would suggest a yeast with low flocculation.

 

[tjz827]

I have been rolling with 66% 2 Row, 20% Flaked Oats, 10% White wheat, and 3-4% Honey Malt and I’m getting this result. Super delicious though. I’m just trying to experiment with different styles. Trying to make it super murky.

 

[Sbe2]

Switch the two row with Pilsner and drop the honey. That should get you really pale. You may have to mash high to keep some sweetness.

 

[tjz827]

Switch the two row with Pilsner and drop the honey. That should get you really pale. You may have to mash high to keep some sweetness.

Thanks for the input! I was researching some guys that were using Pilsner and/or Golden Promise. Will try out Pilsner and see how it turns out.

 

[Iseneye]

As far as I am aware the opaqueness is a side effect of NEIPA. You shouldn't be aiming for a certain murkiness. Brew for the soft mouthfeel and flavour first and the opacity will end up where ever it does.

And holy crap does that beer look awful. Looks like an active yeast starter.

 

[Staticsouls]

Pilsner, 2 row, wheat, and oats gets me a nice hazy bright yellow. That beer does look quite yeasty to me tho.

 

[Manufacturedevolution]

I checked out some more pics of this beer on untapped and some don't look as thick.. Some way more pale.. I guess it depends on the lighting.. I wonder if maybe it's more of a wheat base.. or golden promise thing. I've never used golden promise.. I don't think the pills vs 2 row would be that drastic..

 

[Staticsouls]

Could be a time thing. One pic taken when the beer was green, one taken later after it had conditioned more?

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I love NEIPAs and a hazy looking beer looks really appealing to me, but that is far more murky than I'm used to seeing (trillium, tree house, etc.).

For the lighter color, I don't think golden promise is the answer. I'd try Pilsner, white wheat, flaked wheat, some flaked oats. For sweetness, you could mash higher and/or add some lactose (i'd go really light on this if you go with it). Most NEIPAs I've had aren't sweet, they're just not bitter (if that makes sense). The only sweet ones I've had have been milkshake IPAs which have lactose. To me they're too cloying. I can drink about 4 oz of them and then I'm done.

 

[jjw5015]

I have one on tap right now that looks just like that. It was 10.5# Golden Promise and 2# Flaked Oats. I'll snap a pic tonight and upload it here. But it probably has more to do with the hopping then anything else.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I have one on tap right now that looks just like that. It was 10.5# Golden Promise and 2# Flaked Oats. I'll snap a pic tonight and upload it here. But it probably has more to do with the hopping then anything else.

I'm surprised. I've done golden promise based NEIPAs and they've had more color to them than that.

 

[ong]

I know some people are also throwing raw apple purée into the boil to express pectin. I have noticed my NEIPAs start to drop clearer after a couple weeks in the keg.

 

[jjw5015]

I'm surprised. I've done golden promise based NEIPAs and they've had more color to them than that.

All of my other GP based IPA's have a had a haze, but more bright. First time I've gotten the murk like a Treehouse/OH beer. Something different about this one. There is also a pound of lactose in it.

 

[thehaze]

You need the lightest base malt, probably something like a Pilsner/English Lager malt. Some oats and wheat, as long as they are not too dark in colour. ( there is Light Wheat malt from Weyermann I think which is way under 2L )

No Crystal malts and make sure you have lots of protein/polyphenols in suspension, which will contribute to the very light/neon/bright yellow colour. Once things begin to fall out of suspension, the colour will darken a lot, making it become a different beer...Good luck!

 

[cegan09]

I'm just here to repeat the message that hazy is not the goal of NEIPAs, soft, full, flavorful, aromatic IPAs are. The hazy is a side affect of the process. Do not add flour, no one is adding flour. That picture honestly looks like it was poured just a little too soon before everything had a chance to settle out. A properly made NEIPA will stay hazy long term without purposely trying to keep proteins, yeast, and other stuff in suspension.

however, to your question. I made a brett NEIPA that was a great pale yellow like you're asking. Mostly Pilsner malt, about 15% flaked grains (dealers choice), and maybe 3% honey malt (optional).

 

[brew703]

I like NEIPA's but not the murky ones as posted on the initial post. Just can't get pass the look. Not saying it's not good but just not appealing to me.
The last NEIPA i brewed had pilsner/GP, wheat, flaked oats & honey malt and it was more cloudy/murky than most i have brewed but no where near as murky as in the initial post.
Maybe you can ask the brewery what they are doing to achieve that murkiness.
Next time i brew a NEIPA i'll be aiming to clear it (using gelatine and cold crash) just to see how it compares to the cloudy ones.

 

[Dextersmom]

This is what I'm getting. This last one was a hefty amount of malted wheat. Also added primary hops and dry hops. Fermented with imperial "juice" and about 150ppm cacl2.

I would love to know how they get that opacity though!

 

[TravelingLight]

This is what mine look like with around 65% Pils, 20% Flaked Oats, and 15% White Wheat. I started out using 2-row as my base. Then switched to pilsner just to try it out and haven't gone back to 2-row yet. I was also having trouble with mine clearing too quickly in the keg. But once I bumped the flaked oats to 20%, I started getting more permahaze.

 

[bigtex52]

That first post is what mine looks like right after pitching. Gives the term protein haze a whole new meaning. Where is Bubba's? I am going to be in Houston over the weekend.

 

[tjz827]

That first post is what mine looks like right after pitching. Gives the term protein haze a whole new meaning. Where is Bubba's? I am going to be in Houston over the weekend.

Baa Baa Brewhouse is a small little brewery in Brookshire, TX about 20-30 mins outside Houston on I-10 going West. Check it out. Probably the best NEIPAs in the area. Them and spindletap.

 

[Dextersmom]

I think it's crazy... Less than a year ago I was in ft worth area and asked the reddit forums if there were any spots for neipa. I was verbally raped over and over with responses like "why travel to Texas for a North East style".... Now less than a year later the trend has caught fire.

 

[tjz827]

I think it's crazy... Less than a year ago I was in ft worth area and asked the reddit forums if there were any spots for neipa. I was verbally raped over and over with responses like "why travel to Texas for a North East style".... Now less than a year later the trend has caught fire.

Absolutely. Most Houston breweries are making them now and IMHO can hang with anyone in the Northeast or anywhere for that matter. It seems like you have to have them now to be in demand. Check out Spindletap, Baa Baa, Ingenious, and B-52, if in the area. These guys are mastering the style.

 

[Dextersmom]

Can't wait to return to see what they're doing. Cool that baabaa just did a homebrew contest as well.

 

[alberto Mendoza]

Hey guys im new, first post here, im using 60% 2 row, 21% oat flakes, 21% malted wheat, rest in lactose, im looking for a more yellow finish...we dont have golden promise here, so im kinda lost.

 

[MakeDankBeer]

Hey guys im new, first post here, im using 60% 2 row, 21% oat flakes, 21% malted wheat, rest in lactose, im looking for a more yellow finish...we dont have golden promise here, so im kinda lost.

im at 94% 2 row 3% flaked oats 3% flaked wheat, large dry hop day 2 with wlp066. Heres the color I'm getting ...Its a really light yellow in the sun.

 

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

That might just be the most unappetizing beer I have ever seen. It looks like baby vomit in a glass. To each there own, I guess.

 

[jpakstis]

I’ve added a percentage’s worth of crystal 10L or 20L in the past in my NEIPAs (mainly takeoffs of Trillium) and it does add some good orange color.

I remember reading somewhere that all malted grains are on a spectrum of orange so higher the SRM the more saturated the orange color will be.

Ultimately I stopped chasing that “electric orange” look because it didn’t really matter to me what color the beer is.

 

[MakeDankBeer]

That might just be the most unappetizing beer I have ever seen. It looks like baby vomit in a glass. To each there own, I guess.

solid contribution

 

[brew703]

For me, i want clear beer but i understand the style and that's what people want.
Next time i brew a NEIPA, i will make some changes to the grain bill and fine with gelatin to try and clear it up.

 

[Smellyglove]

It's not just the grainbill how I see it. You need of course a good grainbill, but to get extra (milky) haze you need to boil as gentle as possible. If you go full out on the boil energy you'll coagulate a lot of haze and body positive proteins. You need to have good control of the boil intensity as well. It takes just a minute or two with excess heat to observe that there's suddenly more big chunks floating around, those chunks will sink to the bottom and not contribute to the haze or body as if the proteins were free-floating. It's at least one step of many towards the milkiness afaik.

 

[TravelingLight]

It's not just the grainbill how I see it. You need of course a good grainbill, but to get extra (milky) haze you need to boil as gentle as possible. If you go full out on the boil energy you'll coagulate a lot of haze and body positive proteins. You need to have good control of the boil intensity as well. It takes just a minute or two with excess heat to observe that there's suddenly more big chunks floating around, those chunks will sink to the bottom and not contribute to the haze or body as if the proteins were free-floating. It's at least one step of many towards the milkiness afaik.

I've never heard of boil intensity having an effect on haze in these beers. Certainly not saying you're wrong, but I'd love to see evidence of this. Yes, it's likely due to the higher amounts of protein in the wort of these beers, i.e., when oxidized polyphenols react with proteins, the bindings are irreversible resulting in perma-haze (about 80% of polyphenols come from malt, 20% from hops). Then, you have the early, or biotransformation dry hop. Protein content in wort decreases during fermentation. By dry hopping early, polyphenols in hops are being exposed to a higher amount of available active proteins in the wort. Also, in re: proteins sinking to the bottom of the pot, isn't that what happens anyway when we chill beer, i.e., cold break?

 

[Lynchy217]

"Milky" should not be what you're going for. As a few have mentioned, the goal is the soft pillowy mouthfeel, low bitterness, high hop aromatics. As for Haze, it comes with the territory of hopping during active fermentation. I hop about 3 days after brew day and then cold crash (a necessity with this style IMO) when fermentation is complete. My beers stay hazy similarly to Trillium and Tree House for a month after kegging (never had one longer than that) even with the cold crash. People looking to make the murkiest, cloudiest beer possible are missing the point, IMO. The beer pictured in the OP is exactly why I cold crash. I would never serve something with that much precipitate in it to my guests, particularly since the precipitate in these beers tends to be quite bitter which is opposed to the goals of the style.

 

[203PH]

I used 8# Rahr 2 Row, 1 1/2# and 12oz Flaked Oats. Came out nice and hazy, not murky. Can't wait to brew it again.

 

[Todes]

View attachment 564861

This is what I'm getting. This last one was a hefty amount of malted wheat. Also added primary hops and dry hops. Fermented with imperial "juice" and about 150ppm cacl2.

I would love to know how they get that opacity though!

What is your malt bill, it looks great to me!

 

[wepeeler]

I've never heard of boil intensity having an effect on haze in these beers. Certainly not saying you're wrong, but I'd love to see evidence of this. Yes, it's likely due to the higher amounts of protein in the wort of these beers, i.e., when oxidized polyphenols react with proteins, the bindings are irreversible resulting in perma-haze (about 80% of polyphenols come from malt, 20% from hops). Then, you have the early, or biotransformation dry hop. Protein content in wort decreases during fermentation. By dry hopping early, polyphenols in hops are being exposed to a higher amount of available active proteins in the wort. Also, in re: proteins sinking to the bottom of the pot, isn't that what happens anyway when we chill beer, i.e., cold break?

I've boiled the snot out of my neipas and never had any issues with haze. Also, I've never observed anything chunky floating around in the boil. Done rolling boils, done soft boils.

 

[ccous]

I've boiled the snot out of my neipas and never had any issues with haze. Also, I've never observed anything chunky floating around in the boil. Done rolling boils, done soft boils.

The only thing I’ve noticed with gentler boiling is a lack of head and retention

 

[wepeeler]

The only thing I’ve noticed with gentler boiling is a lack of head and retention

Usually with this style there is so much adjunct added that head retention isn't an issue.