NEIPA dont’s

[Dgallo]

I would disagree with the quality statement to a point. My sister dated someone who was head brewer for one of the AB High End breweries. I talked to him about hop selection a bunch. He said it was amazing the difference some times. Sometimes the same Hop was totally different even on the same farm and harvested the same day. I’ve brewed with a bunch of hops they’ve selected. Some were good, some were definitely different. Their mosaic especially.

All the in demand hops are grown all over the west now. Simcoe, Citra, Mosaic all started on one farm. Now they’re grown in 3 states. Not only does the terroir affect the hop but also the harvest date and even which plant they’re processed in. We’re they heated to much when they were pressed into pellets, etc.

The 2018 Amarillo and Columbus I got from YVH this year literally smells like a tire fire, they’re horrible.

From my experience the Australian hops tend to be pretty consistent and seem to be of almost the same quality as what the better breweries get. They’re always incredibly potent. From what I’ve read they have some of the most advanced hop processing equipment down there.

We certainly disagree a lot when it comes to beer and processes. Well of course dude each plants different. Each soil content is different, each farm has a different amount of rainfall, each farm/plants have a different bill of health and exposer to downy or powdery mildew. But have you ever seen hops processed or harvested?

Well trucks hold over a ton of hop material(bines and hops alike) which they are mixed together from one row on the left and one row on the right. then they are placed together until they are ready to be separated. Some get separated right away and packaged up for those brewery’s who want to do wet hops beers. Next the rest are separated from the bines and sent to drying, again getting all mixed around. Once they hit the desired level of moisture they are mostly turn it to pellets (this is for an all in house operation). The Pelleter mixes them again and Mixes material from multiple hops in the same pellet. The entire time they are getting mixed around. Obviously they are all the same variety and from the same farm. Some get then sold directly to breweries but most of them get sold to a distributor and then go out to breweries or HB shops. The reason I know this is because my wife got us a tour of Loftus Ranch in Yakima, Washington during harvest season, when we were out there for our anniversary.

I agree with you in the fact that certain hops plants produce better hops based on genetics just as marijuana or an apple would. But by the time they get to brewers and homebrewers alike they are mixed. The only opportunity for breweries to get better hops is to buy from specific farms that have a reputation for better hops. Which again are mixed from across the farm or the rows that the brewery “claims”

 

[couchsending]

And you don’t question the bias of your source? If I was a hop farm/broker etc. I’d probably tell you the same thing.

 

[ttuato]

Sure.

Grain Bills are for the most part

Rahr 2 Row
- Sometimes blend with Pale Ale Malt
Carafoam
Occasionally 2% Honey malt
Occasionally 4% Carahell
Occasionally I’ll add 1% Caraaroma
- for more color
Brewtan B
Step mash depending on yeast, beer, and malt.
152/162/168
145/162/168


90 minute boil

25-40 IBUs at 60
- Magnum or Hopshot usually

1-2oz at 20
1-2 Oz at 5
3-5oz at 180 WP
- i whirlpool at that temp to prevent DMS reformation more than anything.
All depends on hop variety and ABV

1/2 tab whirlfloc @ 10
Yeast Nutrient at 10

Let as much break settle as possible before transfer to FV

If I do dry hop during fermentation it’s only a small amount right before terminal. Leave at 68-70 for 2 days after terminal. Soft crash to 55-60 for two days to get yeast to flocc. Pull as much yeast as I can. Add 6-10 Oz of dry hops. Sometimes I’ll space the additions, sometimes not. Leave at 58-62 for 4-7 days depending. Crash to 40/45 for 2 days. Transfer to keg.


Don’t generally take pics of my beer. Here’s one from this summer. I think this one won specialty IPA for my state...



View attachment 601325

I think we all need to revisit this pic from @couchsending and ask some clarifying questions:

How in the hell did you get foam like that? I have similar grain bills / mash, IBUs / boil / whirlpool, etc. Two things in your process I dont do: Brewtan B & let break settle. What else am I missing?

You mention double dryhop - once after FG. Since you use brewtan, I assume you are LODO brewer - if so, how are you dryhopping after FG without introducing O2?

 

[Dgallo]

And you don’t question the bias of your source? If I was a hop farm/broker etc. I’d probably tell you the same thing.

Same way you don’t question the bias of treehouse or trillium when they post hop bills and grain bills on their websites and fill recipes in beer mags. I’m done arguing with you. Continue to provide false information to people and argue things with the confidence and language like your an expert even though you genuinely don’t know. Like the comment about sending hills beers out to be tested and They all have a different water chemistry for example. I didn’t bother to comment, but They simply adjust water dude. Very simply. If you know anything about having a well, when water levels in the table change the water chemistry can change greatly. That’s why you see differnt trace elements and amounts of salt from beers to beer. Sure some beers they increase or decrease adjustments to make different beers but their water in their well has much more to do with their beers than their adjustment. I have many conversation with Dan Suarez, who used to be his right hand man. Dan now has hes own brewery 5 minutes from my house.

 

[couchsending]

I think we all need to revisit this pic from @couchsending and ask some clarifying questions:

How in the hell did you get foam like that? I have similar grain bills / mash, IBUs / boil / whirlpool, etc. Two things in your process I dont do: Brewtan B & let break settle. What else am I missing?

You mention double dryhop - once after FG. Since you use brewtan, I assume you are LODO brewer - if so, how are you dryhopping after FG without introducing O2?

It’s part pouring technique and part step mashing among other things...

I’m “lodo” to a point...

I’ve got some SS Brewtech conicals that I’ve just recently had the kids modified to have a 2nd 1.5” TC port added to the lid. Right before terminal I’ll put the pressure transfer fitting on. It has a PRV that’s set to maybe 2 PsI I think. It’s hooked up to a manifold that’s in turn hooked up to Co2. So I can soft crash under pressure. When adding dry hops I’ll turn the CO2 on and create somewhat of a positive Co2 environment. I then open the other 1.5 tc port and dump hops in utilizing a funnel. Put the cap back on, purge headspace a few times and let it roll at 62ish.

This is basically what any pro brewery was doing before hop cannons and what not. Just pumping Co2 through the CIP while they added DH additions.

Got to talk to the former head brewer at Melvin a few weeks ago and he said sensory was always better on dry hops added the old way through the top versus the new device they got for recirulcation which I thought was interesting.

 

[couchsending]

Same way you don’t question the bias of treehouse or trillium when they post hop bills and grain bills on their websites and fill recipes in beer mags. I’m done arguing with you. Continue to provide false information to people and argue things with the confidence and language like your an expert even though you genuinely don’t know. Like the comment about sending hills beers out to be tested and They all have a different water chemistry for example. I didn’t bother to comment, but They simply adjust water dude. Very simply. If you know anything about having a well, when water levels in the table change the water chemistry can change greatly. That’s why you see differnt trace elements and amounts of salt from beers to beer. Sure some beers they increase or decrease adjustments to make different beers but their water in their well has much more to do with their beers than their adjustment. I have many conversation with Dave Suarez, who used to be his right hand man. Dave now has hes own brewery 5 minutes from my house.

His name is Dan..Dan Suarez. I’ve chatted with him over email as well.

Sure I’m not sitting right next to Shaun Hill when he adds salts or acid to water. Haven’t seen his brew logs etc. But if you do your research you can find what malt contributes to a water profile and how the salt additions vary throughout the process. So you can start to come up with a pretty good idea what profiles thy use for each beer if you have them analyzed. I’m 1000% sure it’s not the “well water” that creates the mouthfeel you experience at Hill Farmstead. It’s knowing how to manipulate water and a better fundamental understanding of the intricacies associated with every step of the brewing process. He could make beer feel exactly the same with RO water, guaranteed. Would it be more difficult... sure. The “water from our well” line is pure marketing.

I can brew great (award winning) pale beer with my welll water too. It starts at 240ppm alkalinity, 257ppm hardness, and a TDS of 650... with no dilution. Pretty much the worst beer ever for a light pale beer.

 

[beervoid]

It’s part pouring technique and part step mashing among other things...

I’m “lodo” to a point...

I’ve got some SS Brewtech conicals that I’ve just recently had the kids modified to have a 2nd 1.5” TC port added to the lid. Right before terminal I’ll put the pressure transfer fitting on. It has a PRV that’s set to maybe 2 PsI I think. It’s hooked up to a manifold that’s in turn hooked up to Co2. So I can soft crash under pressure. When adding dry hops I’ll turn the CO2 on and create somewhat of a positive Co2 environment. I then open the other 1.5 tc port and dump hops in utilizing a funnel. Put the cap back on, purge headspace a few times and let it roll at 62ish.

This is basically what any pro brewery was doing before hop cannons and what not. Just pumping Co2 through the CIP while they added DH additions.

Got to talk to the former head brewer at Melvin a few weeks ago and he said sensory was always better on dry hops added the old way through the top versus the new device they got for recirulcation which I thought was interesting.

I've been keeping DO to a minimum by fermenting in kegs with a float tube.
Dry hopping at end of fermentation seems to have helped alot improving flavor.

Now I'm fermenting with Kveik yeasts the time window has become so small I started experimenting with dry hopping after fermentation and adding a bit of sugar in order to naturally carbonate and hopefully pull out any DO that was introduced.

Did you try adding yeast after dry hopping?

I read that yeast only scavenges oxygen in the beginning of their growth cycle.
Does that mean this practice is pointless unless adding fresh new yeast?

How much psi do you put on the co2 in order to create that blanket?

I ferment and serve from the same keg so my batches are small due to hop absorption but this way I can keep DO to a minimum without transferring and purging kegs.
The beer is finished within 2-3 weeks usually and i've never experienced off flavors cause of this.

 

[kevink]

The “water from our well” line is pure marketing.

Of course it is. Does every beer he brews have the same water profile? Definitely not. Any good brewer (and he is one of the best) adjusts the $hit out his his water depending on what beer he is brewing. What percentage of beer is water? I mapped out the geologic formations in his area and planned to get some water from a nearby source to brew some beer, but quickly came to my senses and realized that he is adjusting his water like any other really good brewer. Do people really think he's just pumping that $hit out of the ground and not doing anything with it?

 

[ccous]

Of course it is. Does every beer he brews have the same water profile? Definitely not. Any good brewer (and he is one of the best) adjusts the $hit out his his water depending on what beer he is brewing. What percentage of beer is water? I mapped out the geologic formations in his area and planned to get some water from a nearby source to brew some beer, but quickly came to my senses and realized that he is adjusting his water like any other really good brewer. Do people really think he's just pumping that $hit out of the ground and not doing anything with it?

No, no one thinks that

 

[Sbe2]

It’s part pouring technique and part step mashing among other things...

I’m “lodo” to a point...

I’ve got some SS Brewtech conicals that I’ve just recently had the kids modified to have a 2nd 1.5” TC port added to the lid. Right before terminal I’ll put the pressure transfer fitting on. It has a PRV that’s set to maybe 2 PsI I think. It’s hooked up to a manifold that’s in turn hooked up to Co2. So I can soft crash under pressure. When adding dry hops I’ll turn the CO2 on and create somewhat of a positive Co2 environment. I then open the other 1.5 tc port and dump hops in utilizing a funnel. Put the cap back on, purge headspace a few times and let it roll at 62ish.

This is basically what any pro brewery was doing before hop cannons and what not. Just pumping Co2 through the CIP while they added DH additions.

Got to talk to the former head brewer at Melvin a few weeks ago and he said sensory was always better on dry hops added the old way through the top versus the new device they got for recirulcation which I thought was interesting.

Did you krausen this beer?

 

[couchsending]

Did you krausen this beer?

I think so.. like I said I alternate between krausening and force carb depending on if I have a fermentation I can pull from. I haven’t noticed a significant difference in head retention one way vs the other.

 

[ttuato]

(Deleted - wrong thread)

 

[JAReeves]

These are some tips I got from various websites, podcast, forums, etc... to brew a NEIPA. Few of them can be wrong, and there are a few that conflict each other. I'm getting more and more confused and now I'm thinking that NEIPA isn't something distinct from the classic IPA. It's just an IPA which happens to be more hoppy and smoother.

It’s cool to read about Monkish. Their beers never disappoint. One thing I like as a home brewer is that our water in Torrance fits in nicely with most beer profiles, so all I do is use activated charcoal to scrub out some chlorine. The 7 award-winning breweries within a mile of my house must know something...

Love this discussion on the variables of NEIPA’s. That’s what I love about this site; lots of valuable first-hand experience shared freely.

 

[couchsending]

The water quality report for Torrance is rather interesting that’s for sure.

 

[beervoid]

It’s cool to read about Monkish. Their beers never disappoint. One thing I like as a home brewer is that our water in Torrance fits in nicely with most beer profiles, so all I do is use activated charcoal to scrub out some chlorine. The 7 award-winning breweries within a mile of my house must know something...

Love this discussion on the variables of NEIPA’s. That’s what I love about this site; lots of valuable first-hand experience shared freely.

Mind sharing the report?

 

[ccous]

Mind sharing the report?

Google ‘Torrance California water quality report’

 

[JAReeves]

Mind sharing the report?

Torrance 2016:

Ca_55
Mg_19
Na_97
Cl_98
SO_176
Alk_106(HCO3)
Ph_8.2

 

[Dgallo]

Torrance 2016:

Ca_55
Mg_19
Na_97
Cl_98
SO_176
Alk_106(HCO3)
Ph_8.2

It’s a good start for NE Style. I just tend to like 2:1 ration of ca to so

 

[leesmith]

It’s a good start for NE Style. I just tend to like 2:1 ration of ca to so

You mean Chloride to Sulfate?

 

[Dgallo]

You mean Chloride to Sulfate?

I adjust with cacl so it ends up being both being close to 2:1

 

[beervoid]

Torrance 2016:

Ca_55
Mg_19
Na_97
Cl_98
SO_176
Alk_106(HCO3)
Ph_8.2

Quiet a high Na. I've a couple of times its a good idea to have some Na for mouthfeel as well

 

[JAReeves]

It’s a good start for NE Style. I just tend to like 2:1 ration of ca to so

I was going to go into my local HBS and ask this very question.

 

[leesmith]

I was going to go into my local HBS and ask this very question.

Just make sure they know what you are talking about.
My buddy (who didn’t understand water chemistry) took his water to a HBS....they tested the ph of the water and told him he didn’t need anything for his water....meaning acid in the mash....they said his water was fine for what ever he wanted to brew.

Just clarify you are talking about the Chloride to sulfate ratio and not a Calcium to sulfate ratio. While calcium may be related to chloride...the common terminology is Chloride to Sulfate or vice versa.

 

[eugles]

This thread has been exactly what I've been searching for. I recently posted on the homebrewing reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/9ytmju/skipping_biotransformation_dry_hop/) about skipping the biotransformation dry hop. I've been listening to various podcasts and interviews and am starting to think that the actual breweries don't do much of this. Clean yeast harvesting seems like its way more important to them. On a Brulosophy livecast with Scott Janish, he mentioned that in the process of writing his upcoming book on hops, he spoke with a bunch of the big breweries of the style and what really surprised him is the amount of people not doing the biotransformation dry hops. I have to admit, I have never skipped it myself and have gone along with the general NEIPA homebrewer advice i've seen online.

 

[JAReeves]

Just make sure they know what you are talking about.
My buddy (who didn’t understand water chemistry) took his water to a HBS....they tested the ph of the water and told him he didn’t need anything for his water....meaning acid in the mash....they said his water was fine for what ever he wanted to brew.

Just clarify you are talking about the Chloride to sulfate ratio and not a Calcium to sulfate ratio. While calcium may be related to chloride...the common terminology is Chloride to Sulfate or vice versa.

Thank you!

 

[leesmith]

...general NEIPA homebrewer advice i've seen online.

I've learned to take any home brewer's advice with a grain of salt....even mine. Pro brewers have such an advantage. They brew for a living....they brew multiple times a week. Can you imagine the learning curve that a pro brewer has compared to the learning curve of a home brewer? Most home brewers don't have nearly that kind of experience. The end product matters and even if science says there is a biotransformation happening....it doesn't mean it's significant and or actually desired. It's a term people throw around like diacetyl or sulfate to chloride ratio. Do the homework, do the testing, and see what works. Make some recipe tweeks, see how many people like it or don't...adjust....see how it's received...can you imagine the size of the tasting panel a commercial brewery has?

 

[eugles]

I've learned to take any home brewer's advice with a grain of salt....even mine. Pro brewers have such an advantage. They brew for a living....they brew multiple times a week. Can you imagine the learning curve that a pro brewer has compared to the learning curve of a home brewer? Most home brewers don't have nearly that kind of experience. The end product matters and even if science says there is a biotransformation happening....it doesn't mean it's significant and or actually desired. It's a term people throw around like diacetyl or sulfate to chloride ratio. Do the homework, do the testing, and see what works. Make some recipe tweeks see how many people like it or don't...adjust....see how it's received...can you imagine the size of the tasting panel a commercial brewery has?

You're totally on point. As a relatively newer homebrewer, the amount of awesome NEIPA related info I've found through podcasts and online has been amazing. After doing many batches, I am starting to wonder about some of these dogmatic "must dos" though.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

even if science says there is a biotransformation happening....it doesn't mean it's significant and or actually desired. It's a term people throw around like diacetyl or sulfate to chloride ratio.

Biotransformation of wort chemicals by yeast is a thing - the most familiar example is the way that strains with the POF genes can transform ferulic acid from malt into 4-VG ("clove"). Hefe and most saison strains have the POF genes and give those "Belgian" phenolics, most brewery strains are POF- and don't transform ferulic acid. So only certain yeast strains biotransform malt compounds.

Hop biotransformation kind works the same way - some yeast strains do it, others don't. Conan and Chico (US-05/WLP001/1056 etc) are among those strains which don't seem to biotransform much if at all, which is why I suspect some people think biotransformation is not a thing, it's like trying to make a hefe with an Anglo-Saxon yeast and wondering why there's no clove.

You're right to emphasise the point about it may not be desired - by definition it means you're consuming some of the hop compounds and turning them into other things, typically you seem to lose ~20% hop intensity in return for some complexity, and some people may prefer that brighter single note instead of the slightly muted complexity. That seems to have been Scott Janish's conclusion when comparing Conan and 1318 in the same wort. But biotransformation is real - I found it by accident when comparing M36 and T-58 in a SMaSHish with Chinook and a splash of Amarillo, M36 gave classic Chinook grapefruit, but the T-58 had lime at maybe 80% of the intensity. If you tasted them blind, you would have said they were made with completely different hops, but the only difference was the yeast strain.

 

[beervoid]

Biotransformation of wort chemicals by yeast is a thing - the most familiar example is the way that strains with the POF genes can transform ferulic acid from malt into 4-VG ("clove"). Hefe and most saison strains have the POF genes and give those "Belgian" phenolics, most brewery strains are POF- and don't transform ferulic acid. So only certain yeast strains biotransform malt compounds.

Hop biotransformation kind works the same way - some yeast strains do it, others don't. Conan and Chico (US-05/WLP001/1056 etc) are among those strains which don't seem to biotransform much if at all, which is why I suspect some people think biotransformation is not a thing, it's like trying to make a hefe with an Anglo-Saxon yeast and wondering why there's no clove.

You're right to emphasise the point about it may not be desired - by definition it means you're consuming some of the hop compounds and turning them into other things, typically you seem to lose ~20% hop intensity in return for some complexity, and some people may prefer that brighter single note instead of the slightly muted complexity. That seems to have been Scott Janish's conclusion when comparing Conan and 1318 in the same wort. But biotransformation is real - I found it by accident when comparing M36 and T-58 in a SMaSHish with Chinook and a splash of Amarillo, M36 gave classic Chinook grapefruit, but the T-58 had lime at maybe 80% of the intensity. If you tasted them blind, you would have said they were made with completely different hops, but the only difference was the yeast strain.

I did a chinook biotransformation hop batch and split it with a non biotransformation.
Yeast was LAIII (famous for biotransformaton?)
Didnt perceive any difference at all.
Equilibrium did a Mystery of Chinook neipa that was exploring this feature of Chinook and it was very good though.

I did a mosaic biotransform experiment with kveik voss yeast. All it did was mute the flavour no difference.

Ive done over 50 batches of roughly the same grainbill for neipa sometimes with and sometimes without biohops. Can't say I ever tasted a remarkable difference..
The biggest advantage to hopping during fermentation is LODO nothing else in my experience and that for sure will make your beer "juicyer"

When I see beer reviews I also struggle to comprehend how people can get 10+ flavours from a beer, so perhaps my pallette is wrecked by all the pounds of hops

 

[couchsending]

Cl to So4 ratio is a pretty meaningless measurement. The amount you have of each is more important than the ratio.

Also the pH of your water isn’t really that important either. The buffering capacity of the water is what’s important. You could have water with a pH of 9 that’s easier to brew pale beers with than one with a pH of 7.

 

[leesmith]

Cl to So4 ratio is a pretty meaningless measurement.

I agree but the Ca to So4 ratio isn’t traditional jargon. The So4 to Cl ratio is a way for someone new to water chemistry to talk to the HBS about water profiles....that’s if the HBS has any knowledge at all on water. Basically, the ratio is a round about way of saying you have more of one ion over the other and could indicate wether the water profile supports crisp flavors or soft flavors etc....

Though, I’ve found researching in books and online about water is more effective than asking my local HBS. They simply don’t have the knowledge.

 

[couchsending]

I agree but the Ca to So4 ratio isn’t traditional jargon. The So4 to Cl ratio is a way for someone new to water chemistry to talk to the HBS about water profiles....that’s if the HBS has any knowledge at all on water. Basically, the ratio is a round about way of saying you have more of one ion over the other and could indicate wether the water profile supports crisp flavors or soft flavors etc....

Though, I’ve found researching in books and online about water is more effective than asking my local HBS. They simply don’t have the knowledge.

Yeah definitely never run into anyone at the few HBS that I frequent that knows more than the absolute basics about water. You could say the same thing about a lot of professional brewers these days as well I feel like. Can’t tell you the number of ones I talk to that say “we don’t touch our water, it’s what makes our beer what it is”. So often I feel like saying “well yeah it’s why your pale beers are harsh and painful to drink”.

 

[BASSBBQANDBEER]

I've been brewing this style for the last 3 years at home and have had great success tinkering with the recipe. This is what I'm doing and not only do I enjoy it, but so do many others (including my local homebrew club).

7.5 lbs Pilsen
7.5 lbs Marris Otter
2.5 lbs Flaked Wheat
2 Flaked Oats
8 oz Carapils
8 oz Oat Malt

2lbs. Organic Apple Sauce in Mash

.75 oz Columbus @ 60
Hop Stand, 2 oz of Citra, 2 oz of Mosaic for 20 mins @178F

4 oz Citra
4 oz Mosiac dry hopped in Keg with Clear Beer Draught System.

Vermont Bay yeast.

OG: 1.070
FG: 1.014

 

[Gentlemans_Ale]

2lbs. Organic Apple Sauce in Mash


View attachment 602127

 

[Gentlemans_Ale]

That was supposed to say “applesauce?....tell me more...”

 

[BASSBBQANDBEER]

That was supposed to say “applesauce?....tell me more...”

Pectin

I originally used Green Apple puree for a Milkshake IPA on a recipe last year and introduced it to my NEIPA recipe soon after. It contributes to a more pillowy mouth feel.

 

[day_trippr]

Pectin Haze now?

 

[ttuato]

Biotransformation of wort chemicals by yeast is a thing..... Conan and Chico (US-05/WLP001/1056 etc) are among those strains which don't seem to biotransform much if at all.

100% agree that it is a thing. My challenge is that my palette is not good enough to discern the biotransformation vs yeast esters. Therefore I use hops that naturally have high levels of b-citronellol (Citra, simcoe, strata, etc) in whirlpool hops.

The biggest advantage to hopping during fermentation is LODO...

There are generally two schools of thought of when to add biotransformation hops: high krausen or with a few points left. I choose the later for lodo.

 

[beervoid]

Cl to So4 ratio is a pretty meaningless measurement. The amount you have of each is more important than the ratio.

Also the pH of your water isn’t really that important either. The buffering capacity of the water is what’s important. You could have water with a pH of 9 that’s easier to brew pale beers with than one with a pH of 7.

After reading a bit on water profiles and minerals it seems like a black art to me. We can't really say how much minerals are added to our final beer from the grains unless we analyze each grain each year..... Ballast Point did some research on this and it showed alot of chloride coming from grains and also sulfate but almost half the amount then chloride..
if u want to keep your chloride high you don't need to add alot of chloride..
i've seen some water profile analysis on top NEIPA's that show different ratios..

 

[couchsending]

After reading a bit on water profiles and minerals it seems like a black art to me. We can't really say how much minerals are added to our final beer from the grains unless we analyze each grain each year..... Ballast Point did some research on this and it showed alot of chloride coming from grains and also sulfate but almost half the amount then chloride..
if u want to keep your chloride high you don't need to add alot of chloride..
i've seen some water profile analysis on top NEIPA's that show different ratios..

Agreed. I think the Ballast Point study is a bit of a guidline though. They did study quite a few base malts and the variances weren’t that huge. Maybe they’d change drastically season to season but I’m not sure. That study didn’t say they were all from one harvest year necessarily.