NEIPA dont’s

[Dgallo]

ooops...2 lbs each of flaked oats, barley, and wheat

The dry hops come in 2 steps...3 days into fermentation....then at 7 days onto fermentation...I plan to leave each step in for 4 days

Thank you for the feedback...a boost to my confidence!

Thanks for clarifying. Honestly, I would throw it them in loose and not take them out. The 7 day dryhop I would push back until your 2 or 3 days away from kegging or bottling. Not that what your planning won’t work, but putting them in closer to your packaging day will make a bigger impact on the final beer

 

[stickyfinger]

Unless you want a really dry beer, I'd boost the OG some. I'd be worried it's going to taste thin with such a low OG. I wouldn't go below 1.060 minimum for NEIPA. Juice/1318 are good choices for lower OG beers as they leave more sweetness and fullness in the finish.

Thanks for clarifying. Honestly, I would throw it them in loose and not take them out. The 7 day dryhop I would push back until your 2 or 3 days away from kegging or bottling. Not that what your planning won’t work, but putting them in closer to your packaging day will make a bigger impact on the final beer

 

[day_trippr]

If you have never done an neipa using all malted grains you should give it a try. I think the result is better than using flaked grains...

Cheers!

 

[Dgallo]

Unless you want a really dry beer, I'd boost the OG some. I'd be worried it's going to taste thin with such a low OG. I wouldn't go below 1.060 minimum for NEIPA. Juice/1318 are good choices for lower OG beers as they leave more sweetness and fullness in the finish.

1.012 isn’t very dry. I’ve degassed treehouse and trillium recently and they all were 1.010-1.013. I have a feeling they are using high protein grains and finishing lower to give the light but full and fluffy mouthfeel. At close to 20% flaked adjuncts he should be alright.

I also just figured he wanted a lower abv beer with the lower og

 

[TheMadKing]

Chances are the 3 oz at 5' added as much or more bitterness than the 0.5 oz at 60'.

So either stick with the 60' hops but push those 5' hops to the whirlpool at 180 and let it drop to 170 over 10-15 min. Then add your 2nd whirlpool hops at 170-160 and leave at that (a little heating may be required) for 20-30' before chilling down to pitching temps.

Edit: fully agree, but I deleted the comment when I realized this thread was 2 years old

But Incidentally, also brewing a NEIPA tomorrow and only using flaked barley as an adjunct. I added white wheat and golden naked oats because I love them, and the hops will be Apollo for bittering and a small 5 min addition for some grapefruit, and then Citra Simcoe Mosaic for the real fireworks

 

[IslandLizard]

If you have never done an neipa using all malted grains you should give it a try. I think the result is better than using flaked grains...

Cheers!

What makes you say that? Why steer away from raw/flaked grain? Have you compared them?
What grain bill would you suggest?

 

[Moose_MI]

Thanks everyone..appreciate the discussion...a couple thoughts..

Yes, I’d like to stay a little lower ABV 5-5.5%

Interesting thought on the All malted grains option. I think im going to keep the flaked this time but i will keep this in mind. I dont care about haze to be honest..it’s the mouthfeel, body, and head retention I’m more interested in

Pushing the 7day hop back to a couple days before kegging..Got It!..i like that!

Thanks all

 

[TheMadKing]

What makes you say that? Why steer away from raw/flaked grain? Have you compared them?
What grain bill would you suggest?

I like a 50/50 mix of 2 Row and wheat with about 1/4lb of orange flavored metamucil in it. Nothing gives you a thick mouthfeel like psyllium husk and a citrus punch like powdered tang

 

[IslandLizard]

1/4lb of orange flavored metamucil

Seriously?

 

[TheMadKing]

Seriously?

Lol no.. Totally joking.. But someone is going to try it now

 

[Dgallo]

What makes you say that? Why steer away from raw/flaked grain? Have you compared them?
What grain bill would you suggest?

Flaked adjuncts tend to actually drop clearer faster since they are unmalted the protein chains are longer and have more molecular weights. Also Scott Jannish did some study’s with some maltsters and found that flaked grains have a greater percentage of manganese than malted grains and oxygen attaches to it easily so it’s been linked to causing increased oxidation.

 

[Moose_MI]

Lol no.. Totally joking.. But someone is going to try it now

****...I just mashed in

 

[IslandLizard]

Flaked adjuncts tend to actually drop clearer faster since they are in malted the protein chains are longer and have more molecular weights. Also Scott Jannish did some study’s with some maltsters and found that flaked grains have a greater percentage of manganese than malted grains and oxygen attaches to it easily so it’s been linked to causing increased oxidation.

I have a sack of Oat Malt, so some of that will be used instead of flaked, hopefully tomorrow.
How does 8% oat malt, 8% wheat malt and 8% C20 sound?
Simpson's Golden Promise for the balance, or use Rahr 2-row, for possibly higher protein?

 

[Dgallo]

I have a sack of Oat Malt, so some of that will be used instead of flaked, hopefully tomorrow.
How does 8% oat malt, 8% wheat malt and 8% C20 sound?
Simpson's Golden Promise for the balance, or use Rahr 2-row, for possibly higher protein?

I tend to used honey malt but c20 is very similar to that. I’d drop the c20 to between 3-5% depending on what srm you’re targeting and just aim for 20% for your wheat and malted oat combo. Golden promise vs 2row for me is always a srm question. In NEIPA, my pallet can’t pick up the subtle difference in flavor Between the two

 

[day_trippr]

Flaked adjuncts tend to actually drop clearer faster since they are in malted the protein chains are longer and have more molecular weights. Also Scott Jannish did some study’s with some maltsters and found that flaked grains have a greater percentage of manganese than malted grains and oxygen attaches to it easily so it’s been linked to causing increased oxidation.

^All of that^ Thanks!

And, yes, I did one batch of the same recipe but substituting malted oats and malted wheat for the flaked. Still enjoying it, and it just seems to have even longer legs than my usual version. Which, being as the visitor traffic is virtually zilch these days, is important...

Cheers!

 

[Moose_MI]

Brew day went well...but...Houston, we have a problem....

I used Lallemand New England for first time....and I’m now reading that the 11g pack is not intended to ferment 5G of average gravity beer? WTF? 3 packs to ferment 5G? I do rehydrate and I did pure O2 aerate ... I guess well see what happens.

 

[TheMadKing]

Brew day went well...but...Houston, we have a problem....

I used Lallemand New England for first time....and I’m now reading that the 11g pack is not intended to ferment 5G of average gravity beer? WTF? 3 packs to ferment 5G? I do rehydrate and I did pure O2 aerate ... I guess well see what happens.

Wtf.. I just used lallemand Kolsch yeast and didn't notice that...thanks for the heads up!

Edit: Can confirm big chutes... 11g packet but they recommend 100g per hL of wort which equates to 19g per 5 gallons on the Koln Kolsch yeast

 

[IslandLizard]

Brew day went well...but...Houston, we have a problem....

I used Lallemand New England for first time....and I’m now reading that the 11g pack is not intended to ferment 5G of average gravity beer? WTF? 3 packs to ferment 5G? I do rehydrate and I did pure O2 aerate ... I guess well see what happens.

11g packet but they recommend 100g per hL of wort which equates to 19g per 5 gallons on the Koln Kolsch yeast

5 cents worth of yeast (if that) and they can't just double the amount for the correct pitch? Packaging price stays the same.
I'm still using WY1318 from a $7 pouch I bought over 4 years ago at my LHBS... At least 20 pitches in, still counting, with 10 jars of stock in the fridge.

 

[stickyfinger]

Its the lower og that i worry about. Desired sweetness is very relative though. Some like very dry some syrupy. I dont generally like ipa with an OG lower than 1.060

1.012 isn’t very dry. I’ve degassed treehouse and trillium recently and they all were 1.010-1.013. I have a feeling they are using high protein grains and finishing lower to give the light but full and fluffy mouthfeel. At close to 20% flaked adjuncts he should be alright.

I also just figured he wanted a lower abv beer with the lower og

 

[Moose_MI]

Brew day went well...but...Houston, we have a problem....

I used Lallemand New England for first time....and I’m now reading that the 11g pack is not intended to ferment 5G of average gravity beer? WTF? 3 packs to ferment 5G? I do rehydrate and I did pure O2 aerate ... I guess well see what happens.

UPDATE....Not much activity at 24 hr but at 36 I have a nice krausen and air lock activity. I pitched at 63F and Im holding at 65F for now. The data sheet says this yeast can have a little longer lag so maybe this is normal

 

[stickyfinger]

A friend of mine just used Lall. new england. It was a 1.066 OG for 5.5G. Lallemand recommends 4 packs for that batch! jesus! The resulting beer was awful. It had a fair amount of clove and belgiany character but also some other very unpleasant flavors and it was super clear even after doing a soft crash before dry hopping.

 

[stickyfinger]

i forgot to mention that my friend pitched only 1 pack of yeast in that, which he also does with all other dry yeast, every time.

A friend of mine just used Lall. new england. It was a 1.066 OG for 5.5G. Lallemand recommends 4 packs for that batch! jesus! The resulting beer was awful. It had a fair amount of clove and belgiany character but also some other very unpleasant flavors and it was super clear even after doing a soft crash before dry hopping.

 

[Moose_MI]

A friend of mine just used Lall. new england. It was a 1.066 OG for 5.5G. Lallemand recommends 4 packs for that batch! jesus! The resulting beer was awful. It had a fair amount of clove and belgiany character but also some other very unpleasant flavors and it was super clear even after doing a soft crash before dry hopping.

well....that’s discouraging but not much i can do at this point.

Im closer to 1.052 Which should work in my favor. but I’m still at 50% of optimal pitch rate...

It will be beer..

 

[Moose_MI]

The 1 pack of yeast got me down to projected FG of 1.012. I didn’t notice clove or off flavors. I added the dry hops and plan to keg this weekend,
Curious to see what it’s like in a couple weeks...

 

[Moose_MI]

A week in the keg and it’s tasting good!

 

[wepeeler]

Read Janish's book. Really great for concepts.

My 2 cents on flaked vs malted oats. I used flaked exclusively for about 3 years. I was having some issues with haze stability (yeah yeah, burn me at the stake) but never experienced any oxidation (well over 20 batches). I tried malted oats per Janish, and the haze was great, but the mouthfeel and flavor were a bit off. I can't describe it, but it seemed a bit thin. Flavor seemed to dissipate quickly. Nothing changed with my process, except I swapped malted oats for flaked oats. I did 4 batches with the malted oats and although the haze seemed more stable, the flavor wasn't what I was looking for. I have since switched back to all flaked adjuncts. Equal parts flaked oats and flaked wheat, with a healthy dose of white wheat malt with Rahr 2 row making up the base. Malted oats have taken a back seat in my NEIPA brewing....

Side note - I used to always biotransformation hop (usually day 2) and then 1 DH charge 3 days before kegging. I have since stopped the BT hopping and usually wait until at least day 5 for the 1st charge, and then DH again 24-48 hours before kegging. Janish wrote most extraction happens within 24-48 hours depending on hop type, temperature and mixing. I'm on board with that. I have zero haze issues now, but I still think it's from multiple factors. Type of hops make a HUGE difference. Mosaic is difficult to keep in suspension. Citra is fairly easy. Galaxy and Strata = HAZE. Higher AA AND Beta acids. I've also come to the conclusion that DH closer to the end of fermentation is better for haze stability. Took me a long time to agree to that. But I've done the exbeeriments myself. I make NEIPAs 3 to 1 to any other style. Hope that helps someone!