NEIPA Brewers - Keg degredation time

[sicktght311]

To all those who brew successful NEIPAs and keg them, what's your typical shelf life in your keg? How long do they stay bright and citrusy before degrading and taking on more of a malt forward flavor? Just curious to see what everyone else's experience is compared to mine assuming proper oxidation mitigation practices

I ferment in Chronical BMEs, and do not open them at all once fermentation has finished. I dryhop while active fermentation is taking place, and then cold crash under 2-3psi of positive pressure from co2. Once crashed, i force transfer with co2 to a fully purged keg. I use the method of filling the keg entirely with starsan, pushing the starsan out to another prepped clean keg so the keg is fully purged and filled with co2, then I burp the headspace a few times after transferring the beer into the keg just to get the last bit of o2 out. All of my transfer lines are purged with co2 as well before transfer, and i fill through the liquid out post, with a hose into a jar of starsan connected to the gas post during transfer to create an airlock.

I typically see my NEIPAs stay extremely yellow hazy colored with very bright citrus flavors for about 3-4 weeks in my keezer, and then start to see it clear a little taking on more of a golden color vs pale yellow and the hop flavor mutes a bit. I start to pick up more malty sweetness, and thats where it tends to stay until the keg is finished. No keg stays longer than about 2 months so i've never let it go any longer than that, but the last final pours at the 2 month period keep that malty sweetness.

 

[apache_brew]

I’ve only brewed/kegged one NEIPA and have similar packaging methods to you. It only lasted me 2 months and I couldn’t tell a noticeable degradation. Aside from doing some sort of purged dry hop charging or perhaps ensuring your kegerator lines are oxygen barrier lines, I don’t know what else you can do process wise.

 

[sicktght311]

I'm overdue for changing my beverage lines, so i just ordered EVABarrier tubing to see if that makes a difference

 

[apache_brew]

I'm overdue for changing my beverage lines, so i just ordered EVABarrier tubing to see if that makes a difference

Not that I have experience, but I think the marketing also promotes using barrier tubing for gas lines as well for the same purpose.

 

[day_trippr]

Never actually seen any marketing campaigns for the line, but I switched all of my beer and gas lines to EVABarrier 4mm and 5mm ID, respectively, a year ago November, after reading about it on HBT and doing some research on the performance.

It makes a huge difference wrt what happens to beer standing in the lines compared to solid PVC (the ubiquitous Bevlex 200) so I have no doubt it's a far superior line, and if it's keeping O2 out of the beer might as well keep O2 out of the gas as well.

Plus I love having PTC connectors everywhere. Makes changing things up much easier than dealing with barbs and swivels...

Cheers!

 

[sicktght311]

Personally I don’t get how o2 could permeate into a gas line under 12psi or pressure. Serving lines I get. But I just don’t see how positive pressure would allow o2 ingress

 

[day_trippr]

Basic partial pressure gas physics: Oxygen doesn't care what the CO2 pressure is and will move right through it...

Cheers!

 

[marceloforpresident]

To all those who brew successful NEIPAs and keg them, what's your typical shelf life in your keg? How long do they stay bright and citrusy before degrading and taking on more of a malt forward flavor? Just curious to see what everyone else's experience is compared to mine assuming proper oxidation mitigation practices

I ferment in Chronical BMEs, and do not open them at all once fermentation has finished. I dryhop while active fermentation is taking place, and then cold crash under 2-3psi of positive pressure from co2. Once crashed, i force transfer with co2 to a fully purged keg. I use the method of filling the keg entirely with starsan, pushing the starsan out to another prepped clean keg so the keg is fully purged and filled with co2, then I burp the headspace a few times after transferring the beer into the keg just to get the last bit of o2 out. All of my transfer lines are purged with co2 as well before transfer, and i fill through the liquid out post, with a hose into a jar of starsan connected to the gas post during transfer to create an airlock.

I typically see my NEIPAs stay extremely yellow hazy colored with very bright citrus flavors for about 3-4 weeks in my keezer, and then start to see it clear a little taking on more of a golden color vs pale yellow and the hop flavor mutes a bit. I start to pick up more malty sweetness, and thats where it tends to stay until the keg is finished. No keg stays longer than about 2 months so i've never let it go any longer than that, but the last final pours at the 2 month period keep that malty sweetness.

After 40 days (thats how long 5 gal lasts for me) the beer still very citrus and flavorfull (maybe because of the whirlpool addition of 8gr/L ?).

The most amazing part is that it keeps more than 75% of all hop aroma potencial.

Another thing to mention is the evolving process that happens during this period of time (40 days).
For me, the beer with 30 days is better (more depth mouthfeel, more complex aromas, all things are mixing really well) than the beer with 10 days (look like a teenager, tons of satured Hop flavor and aroma, but nothing too complex, just a punch in the nose/mouth).

Im really digging into it to find some articles about neipa (and hop forward beers) "cold maturation"

 

[Dgallo]

It’s all about your packaging techniques and you ability to limit o2 exposure. I used to have this problem but not since I fermentation co2 purged kegs and have turned my fermonster into a complete closed system. This beer I had yesterday and it’s been in a keg for 11 weeks now

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

D

It’s all about your packaging techniques and you ability to limit o2 exposure. I used to have this problem but not since I fermentation co2 purged kegs and have turned my fermonster into a complete closed system. This beer I had yesterday and it’s been in a keg for 11 weeks nowView attachment 713143

Do you leave your gas or serving lines connected when not dispensing beer? I usually pull my serving lines if going a week without a given beer but usually leave my gas lines connected.

 

[sicktght311]

I leave both gas and serving lines connected, so i'm giving the EVABarrier lines a try to see if they help in mitigation. If i still have issues, i'll try disconnecting when not in use. I dont see anywhere in my packaging that i could be picking up any appreciable oxygen since i purge everything to the best of my ability

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

With EVA barrier I see signs of oxidation in my most sensitive beers after a week in the beer line. Probably see a 2 SRM shift in color in that oz or two of beer sitting in the line. How much that can diffuse and hurt the larger batch that is sitting at colder temps and saturated with CO2 is anyone's guess. I may start unhooking my gas lines as well when not in use though.

 

[sicktght311]

If o2 contamination is a concern in the serving lines, what are major breweries using? They absolutely cant be unhooking their lines every single day and rehooking them back up. Their downtime i'm sure is no different than the rest of us. Some breweries are only open Th-Su, so their lines must be sitting Mon-Weds.

 

[Dgallo]

If o2 contamination is a concern in the serving lines, what are major breweries using? They absolutely cant be unhooking their lines every single day and rehooking them back up. Their downtime i'm sure is no different than the rest of us. Some breweries are only open Th-Su, so their lines must be sitting Mon-Weds.

They are constantly serving the beer which typically will not sit in the line long enough to effect it.

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

Plus a brewery has no problem dumping a funny colored pint or two before each serving session. I have been to bars where I ordered something unique with presumably low throughput and it was disgustingly oxidized.

 

[marc1]

To all those who brew successful NEIPAs and keg them, what's your typical shelf life in your keg? How long do they stay bright and citrusy before degrading and taking on more of a malt forward flavor? Just curious to see what everyone else's experience is compared to mine assuming proper oxidation mitigation practices

I ferment in Chronical BMEs, and do not open them at all once fermentation has finished. I dryhop while active fermentation is taking place, and then cold crash under 2-3psi of positive pressure from co2. Once crashed, i force transfer with co2 to a fully purged keg. I use the method of filling the keg entirely with starsan, pushing the starsan out to another prepped clean keg so the keg is fully purged and filled with co2, then I burp the headspace a few times after transferring the beer into the keg just to get the last bit of o2 out. All of my transfer lines are purged with co2 as well before transfer, and i fill through the liquid out post, with a hose into a jar of starsan connected to the gas post during transfer to create an airlock.

I typically see my NEIPAs stay extremely yellow hazy colored with very bright citrus flavors for about 3-4 weeks in my keezer, and then start to see it clear a little taking on more of a golden color vs pale yellow and the hop flavor mutes a bit. I start to pick up more malty sweetness, and thats where it tends to stay until the keg is finished. No keg stays longer than about 2 months so i've never let it go any longer than that, but the last final pours at the 2 month period keep that malty sweetness.

Since you are putting a lot of effort into O2 avoidance, here's one more thing you can try:

My understanding is that the StarSan liquid purge leaves a couple-few oz of headspace in the nooks and crannies around the fittings at the top. So fill it up, then do 13 purges of the tiny headspace at 30PSI, then transfer the StarSan out as usual.

 

[Vale71]

If o2 contamination is a concern in the serving lines, what are major breweries using?

I'll give you a hint: low O2 permeability beer lines were not invented for us homebrewers...

 

[Vale71]

If i still have issues, i'll try disconnecting when not in use.

Unless you purge the gas line every time before reconnecting it that won't make much difference. Sure, the O2 won't continuously diffuse into the keg and the beer but it will accumulate in the line (up until it reaches atmospheric concentration, which with this type of line will take quite a while) and will then be pushed into the keg with the next pint you serve. So, if you really want to go full paranoid about O2 you'll have to keep the gas line as short as possible and give it a good purge before each reconnection. You're going to waste a lot of CO2 if you disconnect after each pint or two...

 

[Gozie Boy]

I've gotten a little anal in my O2 mgt practices of late, and have routinely disconnected lines if a keg is not going to be used for a couple days or more, and then purge before reconnecting (I'm guessing you could probably go a week without a whole lot of difference in most beers). If you're using short, small dia. EvaBarrier lines, you only need a very small burp of gas to clear it.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I dont disconnect my lines, i do closed transfers and all the other things mentioned above to reduce oxygen post fermentation. i brew 15gal batches so i will occasionally have kegs last 4 months or more, some of which will just sit in my basement fridge until i kick one in my keezer. i will usually see some slight oxidation after 3 months but very little and the ones that have made it to the 4 month mark are just as good as they are at the 3 month mark. for me the sweet spot is from week 2 to 3 up to week 10. i am not super anal cause its typically a beer that disappears fast, but i do use caution to avoid oxygen. i have one fermenting now, i will dry hop twice while pushing co2 into the fermenter then purge it a few times once hops are in.