NEIPA…to brew or not to brew

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Beergump

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Hello all! So I brewed my first beer back in September (Deschutes Fresh Squeezed IPA clone) and it turned out pretty good. Anyway, I’ve been debating—and being harassed by my friends—what my next brew will be. I really want to do a NEIPA. It’s my favorite style, and what I will drink. However, I’ve been reading a lot about home brewing a hazy and the worries of oxidization, especially with bottling. (I don’t have kegging ability, yet.) My question is, how crazy is it to give it a try? Is it bound to get oxidized and ruined? I’m not overly concerned about wasting money/ingredients, but I also don’t want to waste time if it’s too hard to home brew and bottle. Thanks for any input!!!
 
It will be oxidized — not as hoppy, and muddy brown-ish. Definitely one of the hard styles to get right. Will you be ok with a drinkable but not-as-good-as-professional beer? I generally aim to brew things that are as good or better than I can get anywhere else, but if you’re not going to hold an NEIPA to that standard, you can certainly give it a try.

Carbonation drops and bottling straight from the fermenter may help some, if you’ve got the capability.

I’ve made a bunch of hazy, extremely fruit-forward-hopped but still 60 IBU beers that I’ve been happier with than my attempts at NEIPA. I think with extra bitterness you don’t notice as much that the hops aren’t popping out.
 
Go ahead and try it, your IPA clone "turned out pretty good". But keep an eye out for used kegs, and look into fermenting your hoppy beers in a corny keg and then pressure transfer to a serving keg. Hey, here in PA you don't even need a kegerator November to March, its cold enuf to just leave the keg out on the porch....
:bigmug:
 
It will be oxidized — not as hoppy, and muddy brown-ish. Definitely one of the hard styles to get right. Will you be ok with a drinkable but not-as-good-as-professional beer? I generally aim to brew things that are as good or better than I can get anywhere else, but if you’re not going to hold an NEIPA to that standard, you can certainly give it a try.

Carbonation drops and bottling straight from the fermenter may help some, if you’ve got the capability.

I’ve made a bunch of hazy, extremely fruit-forward-hopped but still 60 IBU beers that I’ve been happier with than my attempts at NEIPA. I think with extra bitterness you don’t notice as much that the hops aren’t popping out.
Thanks for your honesty! Maybe I’ll look for more fruit-forward Am. IPAs or APAs until have more brews under my belt and kegging abilities.
 
NEIPAs really are grenades and oxygen is the pin. While commercial canning or bottling may work the companies carbonate in bright tanks then spend an inordinate amount of effort with multiple purge cycles during packaging. Not very practical for the home brewer.

I would definitely stick with more West Coast oriented IPAs (ie: non-hazies) until kegging is available. That Fresh Squeezed IPA is a really well regarded beer and if one can achieve a clone with decent fidelity it's likely as good as most good hazies :)

Cheers!
 
Plus 1 to what's been said, and welcome to the obsession. Neipa has a few main points, late hops, dry hops, water profile and zero oxygen post fermentation. Oh and a good yeast. All have a personal preference of types and combos. There are hundreds of ways to achieve it so choosing the path that suits you is entirely up to you. Welcome to the rabbit hole, cheers!
 
I’d say Wwait until kegging is doable. By that time you’ll have more beer under your belt. I’m on my third batch of kegged beer and I’m still nervous to try a hazy. Nail your process and when you can get to point of really reducing cold side oxidation, then give it a shot. If you’ve got money to burn on a pound of hops, and are ready for an adequate bottled beer, give it a shot! That’s the joy of homebrew! Do what you want! Who cares what others say
 
First of all what fermenter are you using and what dry hop method are you using Are you cold crashing (with CO2)? Bottling a neipa is possible.
 
I’ve been reading a lot about home brewing a hazy and the worries of oxidization, especially with bottling.
Stop reading about the "problems" of packaging NEIPAs and find the topics / articles / books that offer solutions for doing it right. One book that has ideas on successful packaging is the book The New IPA (yes, it includes ideas that haven't made it into HomeBrewTalk discussion).

eta: there are people who state they can bottle NEIPAs (to their satisfaction). there are people who state it can't be done. Listen to both sides. Note what is working for the first group. Note what isn't working for the second group. Do what the first group does. Avoid doing do what the second group does.
 
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Stop reading about the "problems" of packaging NEIPAs and find the topics / articles / books that offer solutions for doing it right. One book that has ideas on successful packaging is the book The New IPA (yes, it includes ideas that haven't made it into HomeBrewTalk discussion).

eta: there are people who state they can bottle NEIPAs (to their satisfaction). there are people who state it can't be done. Listen to both sides. Note what is working for the first group. Note what isn't working for the second group. Do what the first group does. Avoid doing do what the second group does.
Exactly what I did to nail my procedures. Learn but others successes and failings.
 
eta: there are people who state they can bottle NEIPAs (to their satisfaction). there are people who state it can't be done. Listen to both sides. Note what is working for the first group. Note what isn't working for the second group. Do what the first group does. Avoid doing do what the second group does.
Unless the main difference between the first and second groups is that the people in the first group are less self-critical.
 
Unless the main difference between the first and second groups is that the people in the first group are less self-critical.
Some people are constantly striving with every next batch of beer to make the best beer ever. Some people RDWHAHB. Some people may be in both groups.

As I said earlier: One book that has ideas on successful packaging is the book The New IPA (yes, it includes ideas that haven't made it into HomeBrewTalk discussion).
 
Unless the main difference between the first and second groups is that the people in the first group are less self-critical.

That might be true for some (maybe most) and I don't deny that might be the case for some people of "that'll do". But I know from own perspective that I'm supercritical of my own work even when others thinks what I've produced is commercial quality I'm always picking out flaws and ways to improve. Mainly because the reason I got into brewing was to make a beer as good as (the best beer I've tasted by a mile) Pomona Island Chevron Action Flash TIPA and I haven't get got there yet.
 
used more flakes wheat than flakes oats. Maybe 2lbs of flaked wheat and .5lb of oats. That may give you the haze.

I would spend a little money and get a kegerator if affordable. It was what really got me to move forward making good beer. Hash's are my fav
 
I really want to do a NEIPA. It’s my favorite style, and what I will drink. However, I’ve been reading a lot about home brewing a hazy and the worries of oxidization, especially with bottling. (I don’t have kegging ability, yet.) My question is, how crazy is it to give it a try?
All you have to go on is your limited experience and what other people's experience and their guess are. You don't have to do a 5 gallon batch and maybe a 2 1/2 gallon would be appropriate for you. If it turns out bad (or just bad looking) you have invested half as much ingredients and only have to choke down half as much beer. If instead it turns out great, you have learned some things and can brew it again, maybe a bigger batch.
 
It doesn't have to be that expensive to do oxygen free brewing. I bought a fairly cheap pressure capable fermenter, a spunding valve, a keg (used kegs are available), a cheap mini refrigerator that holds the keg, etc.. I think I would stick with easier beers to brew or just spend the money to do NEIPA's the right way so they turn out good. It is always ends up being frustrating for me to do projects without the right tools.
 
Stop reading about the "problems" of packaging NEIPAs and find the topics / articles / books that offer solutions for doing it right. One book that has ideas on successful packaging is the book The New IPA (yes, it includes ideas that haven't made it into HomeBrewTalk discussion).
These were articles talking about the whole process of brewing a hazy (including solutions). I just focused in on the “problems” for obvious reasons. Janish’s book is currently on my Amazon wish list. Perhaps I’ll move it to the cart :)
 
I'm in a similar boat as OP. I just started brewing this year. NEIPA is by far my favorite style. At the same time I have told myself I have spent enough money for now and need to wait on kegging. If you ready the giant NEIPA thread there are plenty in the thread that post they are successful bottling.

I haven't made the leap to try a NEIPA yet, but I'm not going to be able to just wait until I start kegging (I told myself I have to wait until later this year to make that jump). Right not I have a couple other brews I want to do, but planning my first shot with an NEIPA and bottling in a few weeks. Read up on the thread and linked info on bottling, but the gist is bottle directly from the primary, limit headspace, and purge the headspace with CO2. There's other items out there like but those seem to be the general consensus.
 
It doesn't have to be that expensive to do oxygen free brewing. I bought a fairly cheap pressure capable fermenter, a spunding valve, a keg (used kegs are available), a cheap mini refrigerator that holds the keg, etc.. I think I would stick with easier beers to brew or just spend the money to do NEIPA's the right way so they turn out good. It is always ends up being frustrating for me to do projects without the right tools.
I like that challenge of doing something as a work around and getting good results the satisfaction of problem solving is a nice feeling.
 
Some good and bad example of Neipas I've brewed and bottles. It's all a learning curve and I am now confident of nailing the style to a good standard with bottling
 

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Some good and bad example of Neipas I've brewed and bottles. It's all a learning curve and I am now confident of nailing the style to a good standard with bottling
Mind sharing your process or is it basically The New IPA method? I haven’t read that book but have it downloaded and it’s on my list for vacation next week.
 
Mind sharing your process or is it basically The New IPA method? I haven’t read that book but have it downloaded and it’s on my list for vacation next week.
My process includes a capture of co2 (40L overkill for my 5gal batches) created during fermentation to be used for suckback whilst soft crash, cold crash and bottling. Dry hops are added both during biotransformation one bag goes into the beer but with a magnet (vacuum packed) to pull out after 48-72hrs and another bag is pre-prepared and stuck above the beer until day 5 then that's dropped in for 3 days, FV not opened again until after fermentation have finished. I have the co2 captured device (bags) closed until a couple of hours after to ensure the O2 is driven off by fermentation and a blow off tube into santiser. If I'm feeling extra cautious I put 0.01g of SMB in each bag. When it comes to bottling I dont purge the bottles I just fill high and bottle directly from the FV using a bottling wand. I add the sugar by dissolving it in boiled bottle water with a bit of SMB 0.004g per bottle and syringe the solution into each bottle before filling this has two part effect of covering the bottom the wand with liquid to stop bubbling and also stops 02 being adding by stirring in sugar to the beer. May not work for everyone but it's working for me.
 
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Brulosophy did a bottle O2 experiment albeit from a keg in which a bottle was filled from the bottom up using a picnic tap had 47ppb O2 and the shaken version had 117ppb O2 (exBEERiment | Impact Flushing Bottles With CO2 Prior To Filling Has On A Cream Ale).

My premise and hope is/was that the combination of already low fermentation levels of O2, filling high, a little SMB, O2 scavenging caps and secondary bottle fermentation will drive the TPO down to ≤50ppb (the recommendation).
 
I have changed brewing practices recently to do hoppy Neipa.You could be oxygen free for less than £70 with a recon keg and a floating dip tube , its the co2 bit that adds more cost, but it is well worthwhile in my opinion, my beers are often as good as the best commercial ones now.
 
Janish’s book is currently on my Amazon wish list. Perhaps I’ll move it to the cart :)
It's a good book. Published in 2019, it may become more popular in home brew forum discussion over the next year /1/.

The book covers staling of beer, so it's not limited to just bottling or just oxygen ingress.

For those who take the time to read it, the book will easily push aside useless analogies like "NEIPAs really are grenades and oxygen is the pin." - similar to how other books easily pushed aside "extract is always darker than expected" /2/, "it's like baking a box recipe cake" /3/, etc.



/1/ HtB (4e, 2017) and Simple Homebrewing (2019) appear to have a similar curves: About a year for people to discover it, about one to two years for the early adapters to benefit and share from the new knowledge, about a year or so for the early majority to do the same ...

/2/ nope - that was stale LME. Back in 2015-ish, books like BYO Big Book of Homebrewing and Methods of Modern Homebrewing (Colby, not Strong) described how to detect it.

/3/ readers should know where to find the award winning DME-based recipes for an American Lager and for a NEIPA, right?
 
I’m a new kegger. I tried bottling a NEIPA twice - it tasted great and looked bright out of the fermenter. I transferred to a bottling bucket, added priming sugar, bottled using bottling wand.. after 2 weeks the beer was heavily oxidized with a brownish hue. It’s worth a try just for the experience and would have modest expectations. I just kegged my first beer using a (basically) oxygen free closed transfer. It’s my standard hefeweizen recipe. Here’s what 1 month in the bottle looks like vs 1 week in a keg - same recipe. This is essentially what happened to my NEIPA and what you could expect.
 

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I tried bottling a NEIPA twice - it tasted great and looked bright out of the fermenter. I transferred to a bottling bucket, added priming sugar, bottled using bottling wand.. after 2 weeks the beer was heavily oxidized with a brownish hue.
Respectfully, those who successfully bottle hop forward styles have moved beyond that process.

Here's one example (from March 2020): How to bottle NEIPA (without kegging)
 
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