Need some suggestions to better my hard cider

[ryands79]

I am very new to this, I just bottled my second ever batch of hard cider. Both times the cider ended up tasting like 'cheap' wine. How I made the cider; I put 1 packet of yeast(dry wine the first batch & champagne the 2nd) into 1 half gallon all natural apple juice(no preservatives) & let sit in room temp for about 8hrs, opened the lid then closed back up & put in the fridge overnight. In the morning took the bottle out of the fridge & let warm to room temp. Then I simmered another 3 half gallons apple juice with one pound brown sugar then let cool to room temp. After this I put the starter half gallon & the 3 half gallons in a sanitized bucket w/ lid & airlock. The fist batch started bubbling about a day later & stopped after two weeks, I let it sit another week then bottled & drank. The second batch took about a week to start bubbling then stopped 2 weeks later. I siphoned into a secondary bucket this time and let it sit for 2 weeks then bottled. Both batches tasted a lot more like wine than anything else which is fine but that wasn't what I was expecting. The wine taste would be OK but it is more of a cheap tasting wine than anything. There is virtually no apple taste left after the process either. How do I get more of an apple cider taste OR just get a better tasting apple wine? I've read quite a few forums but a lot of these guys are way more advanced with this than me so when it starts talking about sg readings, pectic enzyme, campden tablet, tannin, acid blend & yeast energizer I'm at a loss!!!

 

[CvilleKevin]

The stuff you made will taste better with age

Next time, for more apple taste:
1) dont use wine or champagne yeast. use ale (eg, S04, Notty, US05, WLP005) or wheat (eg Wy3056, Wy3068, Wy1010, WLP380).
2) dont heat the cider, if you add sugar, just let it dissolve with shaking and a bit of time
3) stop the cider before all of the natural apple sugar is fermented out. search the forum for 'cold crash' or 'bottle pasteurization'. if you dont mind a chemical taste, you can use k-meta followed by k-sorbate, but the first two methods will taste better.

 

[Tantalar]

Hey welcome to cider making. I am very inexperienced too but I have ton a ton of testing and experiments over the last 3 months and have come up with some astonishingly tasty concoctions. I created a lot of cider in the 8-12 ABV range and at that point I would really just call it apple wine. I essentially made like, 8 gallons of sparkling apple wine. I haven't had any problems and I think a lot of it may be due to the fact that almost all of them were high enough ABV to help kill off the bad bacteria. That's just my guess.

first off I would strongly recommend Nottingham yeast. It is amazing!

secondly, I would say you need to decide what you want to make. I prefer a dry apple wine over a semi sweet low abv cider. If you want to taste the apple more, keep the ABV below the 6% or keep sugar in the cider /add some when you want to drink it. I'd add it when I want to drink it. There's nothing wrong with adding some apple juice to it even when you are ready to drink it

If you want powerful, I have had great success with granulated white sugar. Raisins are a fantastic thing to add as well. I think Honey is probably the best sugar to add. Either that or maple syrup... but I havent done much with maple syrup. I have one going right now though so we will see how it turns out

I think I got the best results from this:

1 gallon apple juice (actually used shaw's unsweetened, worked amazing)

2 cups honey

safaleus-05 1/5 package

1.085 OG - 1.005 FG = 10.8% ABV

added 8 oz motts at bottling

and this


1 gallon motts apple juice
1/2 cup cinnamon sugar
1/2 cup raisins
1 cup white sugar
Yeast nutrient
Safale US - 05

1.08 OG - 1.001 FG = 10.35% ABV

and this

I haven't made any higher ABV ciders with nottingham than about 8% and they turned out great.


Experiment lots!!! good luck

 

[david_42]

Hard cider tends to ferment out dry and the result is much like a cheap white wine. People back-sweeten and age cider to improve the flavor. There is also the problem that most apple juice is made from sweet apples, but tart cooking apples make far better hard cider.

Specialized cider yeasts have been selected for low alcohol tolerance. That leaves more sugar at the end.

 

[ryands79]

Gotcha, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something here. Sweeter = less alcohol content. I need to work on that then, this stuff is potent!

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

To provide a more realistic answer, I would say using store bought juice you may want to look into adding some tea, malt extract, lime juice, raisins, or something to provide a little tartness and more body.
Also, if your adding sugar, honey etc to bump up the ABV, you really need to let it age a little for the alcohol to mellow out. I'm sure if you tried your ciders in 8 months you would not consider them "cheap tasting".
I have found all of my ciders that taste horrible after one month, taste fantastic 8 months later.

 

[Tantalar]

Yeah that's a good point about modifying a store bought cider to fit the flavor profile you are looking for. With enough work you can probably "work around" and "emulate" a real cider mill fresh cider to come extent. I have not tried lemon or lime juice but that is definitely next on my list of things to add! I was wondering what an orange peel would do as well. There are so many countless experiments haha.

 

[Teromous]

Also, sugar reduces the body and mouthfeel of the cider. I'd recommend losing it if you can stand a lower ABV. This lack of mouthfeel is noted by the BJCP under the style guidelines as acceptable for applewine but it might not be what you're looking for if making a cider.

 

[ryands79]

I went into this whole thing really cold, when I made my first batch I was very surprised that it came out tasting like wine. I was expecting more of an apple cider with a little kick. Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy with the applewine, just surprised. I'm just gonna let my latest batch age for a while and see what happens.
Tantalar, you are talking about adding at time of bottling right?

 

[david_42]

The flavor of apple juice/cider depends on high sugar levels. Ferment out the sugar and there isn't much sweetness (a little sorbitol that doesn't ferment) left, that's why tart apples make better cider.

I suspect Tantalar is talking about the brown sugar you used in the fermenter. Adding sugar increases the ABV, but further dilutes the flavors.

 

[CandleWineProject]

I wouldn't say that sweeter = less alcohol content. I would say that more flavor = less alcohol content. In fact, my first knee jerk reaction to your problem was not to add sugar, as that increases the alcohol and masks the flavors. Which I am now realizing David_42 said.

Once it is done fermenting and you stabilize it, you can add sugar or more apple juice to help improve the flavor. but mind you, beer does taste like raw grains, and wine doesn't taste like grapes, so the expectation that cider should taste apples is kind of a double standard.

 

[ryands79]

Understood Candlewine.
I think aging & is the solution to my problem. I've done this a couple times now so I think I can be a little more patient with it. I like a high ABV, don't really care to much about an apple taste -at this point-. Just want a more drinkable cider/wine.

Thanks guys.