Need some help before I start my Oktoberfest

[Fishing73]

I have a few questions concerning my instructions that came with my kit.

It is a True Brew Oktoberfest kit. The instructions seem to be pretty cheesy. They tell me to boil 1.5 gallons of water then turn off the heat. Put the grains in the bag and steep for 20-30 minutes. It doesn't say anything about cracking the grains first or what temp. to steep at?

After adding the extract's and hops it says to boil for 20-30 minutes. This seems to be a pretty short boil time to me?

They don't even tell me what temp. to ferment at?

Questions:

1, Do I crush the grains first?
2, Does the temp matter when steeping?
3, Should I boil longer than 20-30 minutes?
4, Do I ferment Oktoberfest for 21 days at 70*?

Sorry about all the questions at once! This will be my first batch and I don't want to screw it up to bad.

Thanks in advance!!!

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

1. Can you post pics of the grain?

2. Yes, 155 is ideal.

3. Yes, you should be boiling no less than 60 minutes unless it is a no-boil kit.

4. That depends on what type of yeast you're using. Ales are typically 65 to 70, Lagers (like an oktoberfest) are much lower, like 45 to 50.

I've never used a true brew kit before, so I'm not sure what type of kit it is, but if it has steeping grains and hops, it's most likely not a pre-hopped, no-boil kit.

 

[MetallHed]

1. Yes, either roll over them with an empty bottle or rolling pin, then put into grain/muslin bag to steep
2. Yes. DO NOT BOIL GRAINS. I steep at about 155*F, keep it around there, after steeping for about 30 minutes, take the grains out and bring to a boil. When it starts to boil, remove the kettle from the heat and stir in your extract. Return to burner and as soon as you see it start to boil, add the hops. Boil for 30 minutes per the instructions.
3. I would boil just as long as the instructions tell you, so for 30 minutes.
4. It should say on your yeast what temps it works best at. I would try to keep it about 65-70*F consistently. 21 days would work great!

Ask as many questions as you can! Make sure you cool the wort down to at least 70*F before pitching the yeast, BTW.


Good luck!

 

[MetallHed]

meh, I'm a new guy as well. Brookdale has more experience than me so I'd just go with what he said.

 

[BillTheSlink]

I have a few questions concerning my instructions that came with my kit.

It is a True Brew Oktoberfest kit. The instructions seem to be pretty cheesy. They tell me to boil 1.5 gallons of water then turn off the heat. Put the grains in the bag and steep for 20-30 minutes. It doesn't say anything about cracking the grains first or what temp. to steep at?

After adding the extract's and hops it says to boil for 20-30 minutes. This seems to be a pretty short boil time to me?

They don't even tell me what temp. to ferment at?

Questions:

1, Do I crush the grains first?
2, Does the temp matter when steeping?
3, Should I boil longer than 20-30 minutes?
4, Do I fement Oktoberfest for 21 days at 70*?

Sorry about all the questions at once! This will be my first batch and I don't want to screw it up to bad.

Thanks in advance!!!

1. Crack the grains.
2. Yes. Don't get them above 150 or so.
3. In 1.5 gallon of water I don't think so, but then again I would feel pretty uncomfortable with such a small boil. This is a five gallon kit right?
4. Not if it is a true to style Oktoberfest with lager yeast. A larger is fermented cold around 50 degrees, then allowed to warm slightly for several days, and then lagered (cold secondary) around 33 degrees for several months. There are faux lager Oktoberfests out there though so we need to know what yeast you have.

 

[Fishing73]

1. Can you post pics of the grain?

2. Yes, 155 is ideal.

3. Yes, you should be boiling no less than 60 minutes unless it is a no-boil kit.

4. That depends on what type of yeast you're using. Ales are typically 65 to 70, Lagers (like an oktoberfest) are much lower, like 45 to 50.

I've never used a true brew kit before, so I'm not sure what type of kit it is, but if it has steeping grains and hops, it's most likely not a pre-hopped, no-boil kit.

I can't currently post any pics. They are by Crosby&Baker. Weyermann Melanoidin Malt 8oz.

The yeast is Muntons avtive brewing yeast 6grams. It doesn't say anything about fermenting temps. If it has to be around 45-59 then I'm screwed.

 

[Fishing73]

1. Crack the grains.
2. Yes. Don't get them above 150 or so.
3. In 1.5 gallon of water I don't think so, but then again I would feel pretty uncomfortable with such a small boil. This is a five gallon kit right?
4. Not if it is a true to style Oktoberfest with lager yeast. A larger is fermented cold around 50 degrees, then allowed to warm slightly for several days, and then lagered (cold secondary) around 33 degrees for several months. There are faux lager Oktoberfests out there though so we need to know what yeast you have.

I would rather boil as much as possible. I don't like the 1.5 gal and 3 gal in the fermenter idea.

 

[Fishing73]

1. Yes, either roll over them with an empty bottle or rolling pin, then put into grain/muslin bag to steep
2. Yes. DO NOT BOIL GRAINS. I steep at about 155*F, keep it around there, after steeping for about 30 minutes, take the grains out and bring to a boil. When it starts to boil, remove the kettle from the heat and stir in your extract. Return to burner and as soon as you see it start to boil, add the hops. Boil for 30 minutes per the instructions.
3. I would boil just as long as the instructions tell you, so for 30 minutes.
4. It should say on your yeast what temps it works best at. I would try to keep it about 65-70*F consistently. 21 days would work great!

Ask as many questions as you can! Make sure you cool the wort down to at least 70*F before pitching the yeast, BTW.





Good luck!

Thanks, I have a wort chiller on the way.
Instruction say it is ok to pitch once it gets under 90. Should be more like 70!

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

I can't currently post any pics. They are by Crosby&Baker. Weyermann Melanoidin Malt 8oz.

The yeast is Muntons avtive brewing yeast 6grams. It doesn't say anything about fermenting temps. If it has to be around 45-59 then I'm screwed.

This is what finely crushed grain should look like: http://www.donosborn.com/homebrew/finely_crushed_grain2.jpg

If you're just steeping, it won't need to be that fine, but if you're looking at whole husks, then roll over it with a rolling pin or an empty bottle.

Also, does the yeast have any kind of identifying marks on the package? I'm thinking it's most likely ale yeast since these kits are designed for beginners and beginners don't typically have the ability to ferment at lager temps.

 

[Fishing73]

This is what finely crushed grain should look like: http://www.donosborn.com/homebrew/finely_crushed_grain2.jpg

If you're just steeping, it won't need to be that fine, but if you're looking at whole husks, then roll over it with a rolling pin or an empty bottle.

Also, does the yeast have any kind of identifying marks on the package? I'm thinking it's most likely ale yeast since these kits are designed for beginners and beginners don't typically have the ability to ferment at lager temps.

Ok, thanks. They are whole.

These instruction really suck!

 

[Fishing73]

This is what finely crushed grain should look like: http://www.donosborn.com/homebrew/finely_crushed_grain2.jpg

If you're just steeping, it won't need to be that fine, but if you're looking at whole husks, then roll over it with a rolling pin or an empty bottle.

Also, does the yeast have any kind of identifying marks on the package? I'm thinking it's most likely ale yeast since these kits are designed for beginners and beginners don't typically have the ability to ferment at lager temps.

No identifying marks that I can see. Just tells you to mix with 1/3 cup of warm water and let sit for 15 minutes. Then stir into wort.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

Can you post an entire list of ingredients? If so, maybe one of us could write up some more complete instructions for you.

 

[Fishing73]

Can you post an entire list of ingredients? If so, maybe one of us could write up some more complete instructions for you.

Muntons active brewing yeast 6 grams
Weyermann melanoidin malt 8 oz
muntons light dried malt extract 1lbx2
muntons malt extract amber 3.3 lbs
Liberty hop pellets 1 ozx2
Priming sugar 5 oz

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

First and foremost, sanitize everything that will touch your wort post boil.

1. Bring 2.5 gallons of water up to 155, turn off burner and steep grains for 30 minutes.
2. Remove grain bag and disgard grains.
3. Add DME and stir in thoroughly until DME is disolved.
4. Bring wort up to a boil and add 1 oz of liberty hops, set timer for 60 minutes.
5. At about 30 minutes into the boil, run some hot water in the sink and let your can of LME sit in to soften it up.
6. At 40 minutes into boil add .5 oz of liberty hops.
7. At 55 minutes into boil add .5 oz of liberty hops.
8. At 60 minutes remove from heat, open can of LME and add to brew pot while stiring thoroughly.
9. Use an ice bath to bring your wort down to at least 90 degrees (stiring the wort helps speed this process up.) Once ice has melted, replace with cool water until down to temp.
10. Pour wort into fermenter and top up to 5 gal with cool water (a lot of people chill water in the fridge overnight so that when they add it, the wort gets down to pitching temp.)
11. Once wort is below 70, sprinkle yeast pack on top of wort and stir like crazy for a few minutes to aerate. This is ale yeast according to the ingrediant list I saw online, so room temp fermentation should be fine.
12. Seal up your bucket, put sanitary solution into air lock and let it sit somewhere cool (approx 60-65 degrees) for 21 days. If you need help getting to that temp, search the forum for "swamp cooler."

Save the priming sugar for bottling time and when you're ready to bottle, boil the sugar in 2 cups of water for 10 minutes. Pour the sugar solution into bottom of your bottling bucket and then rack your wort on top of it making sure to let the wort swirl as you rack to get an even mixture. Proceed to bottle.

 

[Fishing73]

First and foremost, sanitize everything that will touch your wort post boil.

1. Bring 2.5 gallons of water up to 155, turn off burner and steep grains for 30 minutes.
2. Remove grain bag and disgard grains.
3. Add DME and stir in thoroughly until DME is disolved.
4. Bring wort up to a boil and add 1 oz of liberty hops, set timer for 60 minutes.
5. At about 30 minutes into the boil, run some hot water in the sink and let your can of LME sit in to soften it up.
6. At 40 minutes into boil add .5 oz of liberty hops.
7. At 55 minutes into boil add .5 oz of liberty hops.
8. At 60 minutes remove from heat, open can of LME and add to brew pot while stiring thoroughly.
9. Use an ice bath to bring your wort down to at least 90 degrees (stiring the wort helps speed this process up.) Once ice has melted, replace with cool water until down to temp.
10. Pour wort into fermenter and top up to 5 gal with cool water (a lot of people chill water in the fridge overnight so that when they add it, the wort gets down to pitching temp.)
11. Once wort is below 70, sprinkle yeast pack on top of wort and stir like crazy for a few minutes to aerate. This is ale yeast according to the ingrediant list I saw online, so room temp fermentation should be fine.
12. Seal up your bucket, put sanitary solution into air lock and let it sit somewhere cool (approx 60-65 degrees) for 21 days. If you need help getting to that temp, search the forum for "swamp cooler."

Save the priming sugar for bottling time and when you're ready to bottle, boil the sugar in 2 cups of water for 10 minutes. Pour the sugar solution into bottom of your bottling bucket and then rack your wort on top of it making sure to let the wort swirl as you rack to get an even mixture. Proceed to bottle.

Thanks a buch! I have a wort chiller in the mail. I will be fermenting in a carboy. Would it be ok if I added the yeast and shook the carboy?

Also, is 70 ok or do I need to do the "swamp cooler" thing?

Thanks again!!!

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

Yeah, you can shake the carboy. That will probably work better, actually.

And yes, 70 will work but you may get a fruitier tasting ale. If you keep temps in the low 60's you'll get a cleaner, more authentic tasting Oktoberfest.

I wouldn't worry too much about it since this is your first try though. Get the process down and then worry about temps. Chances are your beer will be drinkable and will get better with age. If you can manage to let it sit in the bottle for at least a month or two, I bet it'll be very tasty!

 

[Fishing73]

Yeah, you can shake the carboy. That will probably work better, actually.

And yes, 70 will work but you may get a fruitier tasting ale. If you keep temps in the low 60's you'll get a cleaner, more authentic tasting Oktoberfest.

I wouldn't worry too much about it since this is your first try though. Get the process down and then worry about temps. Chances are your beer will be drinkable and will get better with age. If you can manage to let it sit in the bottle for at least a month or two, I bet it'll be very tasty!

Ok, thanks! Also, how much water should I put in my carboy? 2 gallons?

 

[Rhoobarb]

...is 70 ok or do I need to do the "swamp cooler" thing?...

70oF is okay, but cooler temps in the low to mid 60's will make for a smoother, more lager-like beer. Plus, the act of fermentation produces heat - so if your room is at 70oF, the beer might be as high as 75oF. If you can swing it, I'd try the swamp cooler trick - basically place the fermenter in a cooler half full of water and swap out ice packs or bottles of frozen water. Also, put a tee shirt or towel over the top and let it hang into the water. The shirt/towel will wick up water and keep everything cool. FWIW, I add a bit of sanitizer to the water for insurance and to keep from having to change out the water. If your ferment completes in less than seven days, you'll probably not need to change the water out at all. Extra work, I know. But worth it.

Hope that helps.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

Ok, thanks! Also, how much water should I put in my carboy? 2 gallons?

It really just depends. You're going to lose some of the original 2.5 gallons to boil off so it may be closer to 3 or 3.5 gallons.

I would measure out 5 gallons of water into your carboy and then mark it with tape so you'll know where to top up to.

 

[motobrewer]

Ok, thanks! Also, how much water should I put in my carboy? 2 gallons?

with 2 pounds of dry malt extract and 3.3 pounds of liquid malt extract (which is what your kit contains if i'm reading it right):

4 total gallons in the fermentor will yield an OG of 1.051, around 4.9% abv
5 total gallons in the fermentor will yield an OG of 1.041, around 3.9% abv

fill up your carboy with 2 gallons, mark with tape, put another gallon in, mark with tape again (3 gal), etc until you hit 5 gallons.

then just fill to whatever level you want.

 

[Fishing73]

Thanks everyone for all the help! Much appreciated!

 

[Fishing73]

with 2 pounds of dry malt extract and 3.3 pounds of liquid malt extract (which is what your kit contains if i'm reading it right):

4 total gallons in the fermentor will yield an OG of 1.051, around 4.9% abv
5 total gallons in the fermentor will yield an OG of 1.041, around 3.9% abv



I didn't know that. In that case I might just go with the 4 total gallons! Sweet! :rockin:

 

[motobrewer]

well. lol. is this what they mean by "giving you enough rope to hang yourself"?

if your recipe was designed for 5 gallons, it might be best to stick with 5. 4% abv is still well enough to get you drunk.

if you start messing with volumes, hop presence gets messed around with as well. so while you might have an extra point, you might have a very hoppy oktoberfest.

 

[Gtrfrk182]

2. Yes. DO NOT BOIL GRAINS. I steep at about 155*F, keep it around there, after steeping for about 30 minutes, take the grains out and bring to a boil. When it starts to boil, remove the kettle from the heat and stir in your extract. Return to burner and as soon as you see it start to boil, add the hops. Boil for 30 minutes per the instructions.
QUOTE]

ive read this several times about not boiling your grains. but at 155*F,the waters all ready boiling, and to keep it at 155 do you keep taking the hot off the heat or what?

 

[Fishing73]

well. lol. is this what they mean by "giving you enough rope to hang yourself"?

if your recipe was designed for 5 gallons, it might be best to stick with 5. 4% abv is still well enough to get you drunk.

if you start messing with volumes, hop presence gets messed around with as well. so while you might have an extra point, you might have a very hoppy oktoberfest.

Well damn! I didn't know that either!

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

2. Yes. DO NOT BOIL GRAINS. I steep at about 155*F, keep it around there, after steeping for about 30 minutes, take the grains out and bring to a boil. When it starts to boil, remove the kettle from the heat and stir in your extract. Return to burner and as soon as you see it start to boil, add the hops. Boil for 30 minutes per the instructions.
QUOTE]

ive read this several times about not boiling your grains. but at 155*F,the waters all ready boiling, and to keep it at 155 do you keep taking the hot off the heat or what?

Water boils at 212 F. Looks like it's time for a new thermometer!

Oh and if you put the lid on your pot, it'll hold pretty close to 155 for 30 minutes. You may lose a degree or two.

And for what it's worth, grains are boiled in a decoction mash, but that is a whole different topic.

 

[motobrewer]

well, it's up to you. personally, 1st beer, i would stick to the recipe as written. including the amount of water it says to boil (again, change that volume, hop utilization, etc). the next day you can brew something different.

if you want better kits with better directions, go here:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/recipe-kits/extract-kits/extract-ale-kits

 

[a10t2]

The only thing I would change would be to go out and get a packet of US-05. You can't make good beer with crummy yeast.

 

[Fishing73]

well, it's up to you. personally, 1st beer, i would stick to the recipe as written. including the amount of water it says to boil (again, change that volume, hop utilization, etc). the next day you can brew something different.

if you want better kits with better directions, go here:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/recipe-kits/extract-kits/extract-ale-kits

Why would they want someone to only boil 1.5 gallons over a full boil? Is there any benefit of this besides boil over. Also, How would I get hop utilization if I done a bigger boil if the batch still ends up at 5 gallons? Thanks.

 

[a10t2]

Why would they want someone to only boil 1.5 gallons over a full boil? Is there any benefit of this besides boil over. Also, How would I get hop utilization if I done a bigger boil if the batch still ends up at 5 gallons? Thanks.

The utilization of the hops (what percentage of the bittering compounds is extracted) is affected by gravity. Well, technically it isn't, but gravity is a reasonable approximation. Anyway, the more concentrated the boil, the higher the gravity, and the less bitterness you'll get from the hops. If the change in volume is large enough, you could actually get a perceptible difference. So in going from a 1.5 gallon boil to a full 6+ gallon boil, you'd want to reduce the bittering hops substantially, probably by 30-50% in that (extreme) case.

For the most part, no, there is no advantage to a more concentrated boil.

If you want to try to estimate hop utilization, I'd recommend Tinseth's work as a starting point: http://www.realbeer.com/hops/research.html