Need Help with Blonde Ales

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

My last 3 batches of Blonde Ales have all come out just a little off. I have brewed other batches (Stout & an IPA) in between and they came out fine. I am brewing all grain and hit my gravity on all of them.

When I take a sip, I can taste its off in the beginning but just a little. Its hard to describe whats off about the beer but the closest thing I could think off would be a slight banana taste.

I know I'm not giving much information to help me with. This is the first time I am trying to dissect a problem. Any information / ideas would be helpful.

 

[Snicklefritz]

What were your fermentation temps like? What yeast?

 

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

Thanks for reminding me. I forgot to mention that all of these batches were in a temperature controlled refrigerator, right at 69 degrees. I have used 3 types of yeasts and got the same taste: White Labs WLP001 & WLP029 German Ale/Kolsch as well as Wyeast 1056.

 

[Brulosopher]

Pitch at 64, set regulator to 66, and attach probe to fermenter.


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[Sippin37]

Try fermenting a few degrees cooler and pitching more yeast so they are not stressed at all. Maybe add some yeast nutrient. Also look into your water chemistry, if you're like me I need to acidify my mash water to get the PH in the correct range on lighter colored beers.

 

[Jaybird]

Have you ever brewed this beer where you didn't get an off flavor?

Post up the recipe, let us look... Just off the cuff it seems your fermenting your blonde (unless Belgian) a tad on the warm side.

Cheers
Jay

 

[geoffm33]

Did you make a starter (and how big) or just pitch the vial/smack pack?

 

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

Pitch at 64, set regulator to 66, and attach probe to fermenter.


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When you say probe, do you mean a blowoff valve? If so, I already did that.

Thanks for the advice. I will try pitching and fermenting at a lower temperature.

 

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

Did you make a starter (and how big) or just pitch the vial/smack pack?

I did make a starter for the White Labs California Ale but not the others. I have been using some yeast nutrient that really gets it taking off quick.

Should I make a yeast starter and use yeast nutrient or is that too much?

 

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

I will try fermenting a few degrees cooler. I have been using yeast nutrient and my fermentation usually takes off within a few hours and stops rumbling within a few days. I do leave it on the yeast for 3-4 weeks and sometimes a secondary after that. I was worried about oxidation but my last batch had my carboy filled damn near the top, so I don't think that's it either.

Good call on the water chemistry, that is something I have not looked at. I have been using store bought Spring Water.

What is the correct PH I am looking for a Blonde Ale?

 

[geoffm33]

I did make a starter for the White Labs California Ale but not the others. I have been using some yeast nutrient that really gets it taking off quick.

Should I make a yeast starter and use yeast nutrient or is that too much?

I bring it up because if you underpitch you can stress the yeast that can lead to off flavors like bananas.

https://morebeer.com/themes/morewinepro/mmpdfs/mb/off_flavor.pdf

 

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

Have you ever brewed this beer where you didn't get an off flavor?

Post up the recipe, let us look... Just off the cuff it seems your fermenting your blonde (unless Belgian) a tad on the warm side.

Cheers
Jay

First time brewing this beer. I followed the recipe identically and it has lots of good reviews. I have been getting the same off flavor in different recipes as well.

Brulosopher's Best Blonde Ale
Brewer: Bright Spot Brewing
Batch Size: 5.50 gal Style: Blonde Ale ( 6B)
Boil Size: 7.38 gal Style Guide: BJCP 2008
Color: 4.2 SRM Equipment: Bright Spot (5.5 Gal)
Bitterness: 21.3 IBUs Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.045 (11.2° P) Mash Profile: BRIGHT SPOT - Light to Medium Body
Est FG: 1.009 SG (2.3° P) Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
ABV: 4.7% Taste Rating: 30.0

Ingredients Amount Name Type #
8 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row), NW Pale (2.0 SRM) Grain 1
12.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 15L (15.0 SRM) Grain 3
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4
0.2 oz Galena [13.0%] - Boil 55 min Hops 5
0.2 oz Cascade [6.4%] - Boil 25 min Hops 6
0.2 oz Cascade [6.4%] - Boil 10 min Hops 7
0.2 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12.9%] - Boil 10 min Hops 8
0.2 oz Cascade [6.4%] - Boil 5 min Hops 9
1 pkgs German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) Yeast 10

 

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

Thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely use a yeast starter next time. My fermentation's have been so short and aggressive with the yeast nutrient I guess I was worried adding a yeast starter would be too much.

 

[opiate82]

Thanks for reminding me. I forgot to mention that all of these batches were in a temperature controlled refrigerator, right at 69 degrees.

Is the fridge set to 69 or is that the actual temp inside your fermenter?
Often times the ambient air temp does not equal the temp inside your your fermenter. Fermentation generates a lot of heat and it can be as much as 10*F warmer inside your fermenter than what your ambient air temp is.

Even if that 69*F IS your actual temp inside your fermenter, that seems warm to me. I ferment my blonde at 62*F. A cooler fermenter will keep those esters down.

 

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

Is the fridge set to 69 or is that the actual temp inside your fermenter?
Often times the ambient air temp does not equal the temp inside your your fermenter. Fermentation generates a lot of heat and it can be as much as 10*F warmer inside your fermenter than what your ambient air temp is.

Even if that 69*F IS your actual temp inside your fermenter, that seems warm to me. I ferment my blonde at 62*F. A cooler fermenter will keep those esters down.

69 is the temp of the fridge. Another great point about the temp of the fermenter, especially as aggressive of the fermentations I have been seeing with the yeast nutrient.

I have just been following the recommended temperature of my yeast so far. Do you know where I can find something with the recommended fermentation temperature depending on beer style?

 

[opiate82]

Yeah, I'm betting it was much warmer inside your fermenter and you are getting a lot of esters. Those stick-on thermometer strips will actually give you a pretty close approximation of the temperature inside your fermenter. Just make sure you stick it somewhere on the fermenter that is the same level as the liquid, not at the level of the empty head-space.

As far as a guideline, just check the BCJP style guidelines for ester profiles. If a beer calls for low-no esters, try to keep it below 65*F, medium esters 65*F-69*F, very estery 70*F+. Also depends on personal tastes. For most beers I don't like a lot of esters so I keep all my ferments below 62*F.

 

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

I think your right. That's very helpful information. I didn't think of that.

Can you still get off flavors if you remove the fermenter from a controlled temperature after the initial fermentation is complete? (after a week to 10 days)

 

[opiate82]

Generally it is the first couple of days that are key for temp control. After that you should be fine if the temp bumps up and/or you take the fermenter out of your temp controlled fridge.

 

[acidrain]

Didn't see page two...

What opiate82 said

 

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Long time reader but this was the first question I asked on here and I'm overwhelmed with how helpful everyone has been.

Is this what everyone means by a probe? http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...on-controls-a419-digital-temp-controller.html

I have a dual kegerator with a digital temperature gauge that I double up my controlled fermentation chamber. I need to get a small freezer or something that I can use as my fermenter so my kegerator can hold my beer to drink all the time, undisturbed.

 

[opiate82]

Yup, pretty much. If you just take the probe on that temp controller and tape it to the side of your fermenter it should control the temp nicely.

If you are a little bit handy you can build up an STC-1000 for less than $20 that is perfect for a fermentation chamber. Check out the DIY section for more info.

 

[Jaybird]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Long time reader but this was the first question I asked on here and I'm overwhelmed with how helpful everyone has been.

Is this what everyone means by a probe? http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...on-controls-a419-digital-temp-controller.html

I have a dual kegerator with a digital temperature gauge that I double up my controlled fermentation chamber. I need to get a small freezer or something that I can use as my fermenter so my kegerator can hold my beer to drink all the time, undisturbed.

Indeed the help on this forum is amazing and second to none! If you are getting the off flavor on different beers then it is something in your process not the recipe. It does sound like temp control can be playing a part. or rather ferment temp anyway. Maybe pull up the BJCP guidelines and look a the off flavor section and taste your beer and try and pinpoint what off flavor your getting and go from there.

Cheers
Jay

 

[Flipadelphia]

Remember that it's harder to mask any flaws in a blonde ale than most other styles, as there aren't much to them ingredient wise.

 

[Colorado_Wanna_Be_Brewer]

How does everyone handle the changing temperature inside the fermenter? I notice that the temperature rises when the yeast is at the most active part of fermentation and starts to drop when it is slowing down. Should I be adjusting my fridge to try to keep the fermenter at a certain temperature or should I leave the temperature in the fridge the same the whole time during fermentation?

 

[opiate82]

I am assuming you don't have a separate temp controller for your fridge and are just using the fridge controls? If that is the case, just get one of those sticker-thermometers and put it on your fermenter and try to keep that at a specific temperature by adjusting your fridge temp. Temp sticker is reading 67*F and you want 65*F, drop your fridge down two degrees. It is not terribly precise but should get you close. Try to check it at a minimum of every 8 hours if possible.

If you do have a separate temp controller just tape the probe of your temp controller to the side of your fermenter. I have an STC-1000 so I tape the probe directly to my fermenter using a folded up paper towel between the probe and the tape as an insulator.

Basically, if possible you want the temperature in the fermenter as constant as possible. A couple of degree swings in temp one way or another won't ruin your batch, but the more constant you can keep the temperature of your beer, the better.