Need feedback on a recipe (Dextrin, Melanoidin, Kveik)

[garlicbread]

Hey,

I'm planning a new batch where I have a few new ingredients and I wanted to basically ask anyone with more experience to tell me if I'm using them wrong.
For 16 Liter (~4 US Galons)
Pilsen - 4 KG (~9lbs)
Melanoiden - 0.5 kg (~1.1lbs)
Dextrin - 0.5 kg (~1.1lbs)
Azacca 60 min - 10g (~0.35 oz)
Azacca 30 min - 5g (~0.2 oz)
Azacca 0 min - 5g (~0.2 oz)
Lallemand Kveik Vos - Half a package? (6 grams)

This is a prediction with Beersmith

BIAB - 60 min Mash at 68c (154.4f) and possibly mash out. 60 min boil.

My expectation is I'll get slightly higher alcohol, a more full-bodied version of basic Pilsen beer with a more pronounced malty taste (Honey + Bisquit if malt description is to be believed).
The things I'm unsure about:

1) Am I using too much of either Dextrin or Melanoiden?
2) Should I go with Pale malt or Pale ale malt instead since I'm using Kveik?
3) Do I need to aim for higher hop bitterness to balance out Melanoiden?
4) How "magic" is Kveik really in terms of time? If I ferment at 35c (95f) should I bottle it on days 4-5? How long does it take to carbonate?
5) Does this recipe make any sense overall?
6) If it does, any spices that could go well with this?


I'm trying out Kveik because I'll have a hard time keeping cooler temperatures in summer for the next few weeks. + curious about faster speed

 

[Gilbert Spinning Horse]

My suggestions would be -
Use Magnum rather than Azacca for the 60 minute addition, that's just to bitter, so why use a relatively expensive hop for that?
Skip the 30 minute addition completely, that just adds more bitterness, so you might as well toss in a bit more magnum at 60 mins.
You can chuck all the Azacca in at 0 mins, stick with your 5g and save the rest for another brew, or drop the temp down to 60C/140F and steep them, which is what I'd do. You're going to get a bit of orange from the Voss so you might as well get the flavour of the Azacca too.
You'll be ok with Pilsner malt.
Half a packet of Voss will be fine. Don't forget to add plenty of yeast nutrient, like 2 or 3 times what's recommended.
You could probably bottle it on day 5, but I prefer to wait for at least a week, two if I'm not in a hurry.
Not a fan of spices myself and it doesn't seem like the right sort of brew for spice either.

 

[Velnerj]

I'd knock down the melanoidin malt down to about 5% of the total grist. You can keep the dextrin as is. If you'd like to compensate for lowering the melanoidin just add more pilsner malt (or throw in a little Vienna or Munich malt if you have it - wheat malt could also be an option for body and head retention). Another personal opinion is that I much prefer pale ale malt over pilsner, but to each their own.

As far as the hops go I'd agree with the comment above do a 60 min addition and the rest at the end of boil (flameout or hop stand). Magnum is a good idea, if you already have it, if not you can use azacca too. I'd double the flameout amount though...

The kveik yeast will ferment vigorously and fast but it still needs a bit of time. I packaged on day 4 and that was way too early. The beer had a terrible yeast bite that never went away and it became one of my first dumpers. If I had let it settle out a bit longer it would have been fine. Give it at least a week is my recommendation.

Avoid spices. They are tricky and usually don't work out.

 

[HM-2]

• The grain bill on the whole sounds quite Marzen or Helles Bock-esque but you're going heavy on the Melanoidin. I've made the mistake of brewing German style beers with more than about 5% of Melanoidin malt and it can be REALLY overpowering, like licking the stale crumbs out of the bottom of your toaster.
  
  
• I also think you're probably overdoing the Dextrin- again, 5% or less is more in line with what you'd want to use for boosting body without making a beer very sweet. You're approaching sweet stout quantities of Dextrin here.
  
  
• I'd personally drop each down to 250-300 grams and drop in 500 worth of Munich or Vienna malt, which will give you a more rounded malt bill and bring the EBC back down a bit.
  
  
• I'm not sure Azacca is the right hop for this malt bill, though the amounts you're using here are so tiny that you probably won't get any of the pineapple or tropical fruit from it...IMVHO Azacca would be completely wasted here.
  
  
• If you're going for a pseudo-lager profile, keep fermentation temperatures low with the Voss- push it up into its preferred 30°C+ range and you'll start getting more fruit out of it. Longer ferment but you'll end up with a crisper end product.
  

Personally I'd swap the Azacca out for something softer and more noble (or even Magnum), half the Melanoidin and Dextrin and replace them with Munich or Vienna, shoot for 25 IBUs with a 20g or so in the whirlpool, and ferment it cool for a nice malty German lager.

I'd then brew a pale ale with the Azacca (I hope you've got more than 20g, though) using the other half of the Voss, fermented warm, with a pale ale base and possibly a bit of light crystal or Vienna thrown in for some colour. Hit about 45 IBUs with 2-3 boil additions, 50g in the whirlpool and the same-to-double in a dry hop.

 

[garlicbread]

Thanks, everyone!
@HM-2
I have quick access(Sold near me) to these hops:

Which would you recommend if I don't like floral aromas?

 

[HM-2]

Everything there is on the juicy/citrus spectrum really, in my mind I don't see any of them playing especially nicely with a strong German lager malt bill. Maybe Amarillo at a push if it's very orange rind/grapefruit leaning (obviously there's huge variation from harvest to harvest)?

But to be fair if we're talking quantities of the size mentioned in your initial recipe you aren't going to be getting any actual hop flavour anyway- just bitterness. In which case, something like Mosaic which tends to bitter pretty smoothly could work. To me this recipe definitely seem to be malt forward rather than hop-forward.