Need direction in building a path to brewing 10 gallon batches...

[hornet303]

Long time lurker, first time posting. First off, I'll say I've gleaned a ton of knowledge from this site and truly appreciate all the members that make it such a great wealth of knowledge.

Been brewing for about 1.5 years now. Took some classes up in UC Davis and now I'm fully intrigued with brewing. The first 3 batches were 5 gallon extract which turned out well enough. The next 4 batches were all-grain and have been pleasantly pleased in the quality increase with each batch. My current kit is as follows:

- Darkstar 2.0 burner
- 10gal Bayou Classic BK - Ball valve + thermometer
- 10gal Igloo cooler MLT with false bottom + ball valve
- 5 gal Igloo cooler HLT with ball valve (fly sparge)
- 6 gal plastic carboy (thinking of upgrading to 7.9 gal Speidel)
- 5 gal ball lock keg
- Kegerator
- Chest freezer with external thermal controls (fermentation)
- Blichmann beer gun

Im able to transfer beer from carboy to keg using siphon and push with CO2 (into purged keg) for oxygen free transfer (I like the hoppy beers!).

The real problem is that after brewing a great IPA, it seems to vanish before I know it and then have struggle to get 8 hours to brew a new batch again. I'd like to see what it would take to get to 10 gallon batches (2x5gal kegs).

Some things are obvious to me. Ill need a minimum of 15 gal BK, and the 10gal Igloo MLT wont be big enough to mash 20+ pounds of grain. What I really need help with is what type of equipment should I be looking at getting to get me to this milestone? The possibilities of buying a 5k brew stand with pumps and control panel isn't in the cards now, but I think if I plan intelligently, I could eventually get to that state.

With that in mind, what kind of build of materials can get me there? I imagine Ill need to recirculate wort with HLT to keep MLT temps stable which would also include a need for a second burner. Can I buy individual burners now and incorporate them into a brew stand later?

Anyway, look forward to seeing some responses. Appreciate the help!

Cheers!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I only brew 10 gallon batches. I went electric but if you already have a burner just get a bigger pot and go BIAB.Its that simple.Forget the 15 gallon and get a 20.Concord makes an awesome pot for cheap.Look for it on EBAY

 

[Ryfi]

Before going pro I was brewing 10 gallon batches using an 8 gallon MLT with HERMs coil and a 15 gallon boil kettle. I would mash inside on the kitchen counter with the HLT / HERMs on the stove. To control the temp of the mash I used a ball valve to bend the wort going though the coil with wort that bypassed the coil. As for a pump I was using one of the tiny black pumps found on ebay. I definitely maxed out what I could produce in a single brew session. You will hit a limit as to how high of a gravity you can achieve but I could regularly brew 10 gallons of 6.5% abv wort. Cheers!

 

[hornet303]

Before going pro I was brewing 10 gallon batches using an 8 gallon MLT with HERMs coil and a 15 gallon boil kettle. I would mash inside on the kitchen counter with the HLT / HERMs on the stove. To control the temp of the mash I used a ball valve to bend the wort going though the coil with wort that bypassed the coil. As for a pump I was using one of the tiny black pumps found on ebay. I definitely maxed out what I could produce in a single brew session. You will hit a limit as to how high of a gravity you can achieve but I could regularly brew 10 gallons of 6.5% abv wort. Cheers!

Can you explain this in better detail?

I don't mind buying equipment, but I would like to make sure it still has a purpose in the future. Like considering the 10gal BK, can I re-purpose it as potential HLT going forward? I guess I need a better understanding of things when it gets to RIMS/HERMS with how things flow and for what reason.

Like I mention above, I've been thinking of getting a 7.9 gal Spiedel fermenter. When I'm trying to max out a 6 gallon batch, my 6 gal carboy is maxed out and blow off gets crazy. If I have almost 2 gallons of head-space it would be less of an issue and I could make sure I pick up the clearest of the beer when I rack to a keg and ensure I get a full 5 gallon keg. But with the idea of potentially going to 10 gallons, does it make sense to go with the 15gal Spiedel and don't waste dollars because I've been focusing on filling a 5 gallon keg.

I imagine with people doing upgrades all the time there area few lessons learned. When I was shopping for a BK, I knew I needed at least 5 gallons, I read up on the situation and everyone suggested minimum of 10 gallons. I'm very glad now that I went with 10 gallons, but now I wish I would have payed the extra 20% and bought a 20.

Cheers!

 

[dbdubb]

You're initial post sounds very familiar to where I was with brewing and where I wanted to go about 2.5 years ago. A couple of things I learned is that if you see yourself one day having a full blown rig with pumps and controls, buy equipment that you can use today but will still have a place on your rig tomorrow. IE. Buy real kettles to use now but will work for your HERMS setup later. Buy solid pumps (personally I run 2 chugger pumps), buy the upgraded stainless head model.

Investing in good solid equipment now, will pay off greatly later, when you don't need to rebuy to get you to where you want to go.

Also keep in mind, time is crucial to most people. 2 years ago, I had the same mindset as you do now with 5 gallon batches. I've been brewing 10 gallon batches for the most part over the last 1-2 years, and just last week I made an investment into a 25 gal boil kettle to allow for a 15 or 20 gallon batch. Many styles of beers taste even better after conditioning for a couple of months, but I was never in a position to allow one to sit that long without it being tapped.

My point is, your vision today will change tomorrow. As you become even more experienced your needs and wants will evolve. Keep that thought in the back of your mind as your deciding what to purchase.

Cheers!

 

[Dcpcooks]

I think a good place to start is by thinking about the largest grain bill you may need. That will allow you to size your mash tun. If your going for quads, imperials, barleywine etc you should go with a 20g set up. Big grain bills need some space. A 1.130 RIS will max out a 20g tun but it will fit. You can add a rims or herms coil at any time as your funds allow. You can make great beers with a single infusion so a pump is not necessary to start. It is very nice to have one however. Think about your space. Can you get away with a gravity fed system? If not a pump is needed to move wort. I went with a 36" SS table that holds my HLT and mash tun. My boil kettle is lower than my mash tun so I can let it drain with gravity.
I think you'll end up with 3 20gallon kettles and two pumps. I have three burners now which cut about 45 min off my brew day. I can heat my mash and HLT strike liquor faster and don't need to move it. Electric is a great option for indoor brewing but it adds to the price.

Another good thing to consider is fermentation space. How do you plan to ferment. If your cool with splitting batches into two carboys your can stop there. You may want to consider a 14 gallon conical at some point. I'm saving for a second one, which will allow me to brew more often.

Chilling wort is another consideration. 10 gallons of hot wort can't be lifted and moved easily so look at options for chilling in place. A counter flow chiller is cool for whirlpooling which my be important to you since you said you like IPA's. A plate chiller works well and uses less water.

You'll probably begin making starters to save on the cost of yeast.

You can look at biab or the blichmann brew easy if your looking for a smaller footprint. I don't think the brew easy is sized well for 10 g batches at higher gravities because it only has a 15 g mash tun and the efficiency is a little lower due to its design. That said if my world had to shrink I may consider that as a good option.

It's fun to build it out, at least it was for me. I ended up with a 30g set up and a half barrel conical and a half barrel speidel fermentor to lager in. It works very nicely. I love the ability to brew large batches and have extra beer to age, and cut down on the number of brew days. Dbdubb is correct buy the best you can afford and think ahead. Selling smaller equipment can get expensive since the stuff takes a price hit on the resale market. I look at used equipment all the time to see if I can save a few bucks along the way. Ssbrewtech spike and Blichmann make great equipment that will hold value better than other items and they will last a lifetime. Personally I'd look to buy used gear whenever possible.


Good luck!

 

[John Eberly]

Hi Hornet,

I don't think your MLT is a problem - I regularly brew 10+ gallon, over 20 pound mash batches using the same 10 gallon Igloo yellow cooler. No recirculation needed, just mash in carefully and fly sparge. I mash in about 5 pounds of grain at a time using a thermometer to make sure I'm hitting temps as I go - hard to make much of an adjustment on a big thick mash if you calculate wrong.

My kettle is an inexpensive Italian made 100 liter stainless pot. I do have a 40 gallon conical fermenter, but I often just split the wort into a couple of 6 gallon carboys for a ten gallon batch.

So the cheap route to 10 gallon batches for you is a larger kettle and another carboy (buy two and you can use them for primary and secondary, rack one from primary to secondary, clean the dirty primary carboy, and rack the second one over) and of course another Corny keg.

 

[jgrreed]

Many different opinions.

One huge takeaway message I got from the "how to build a brewery book" was that small steps usually results in a lot more cost that one big jump. I/we made many mistakes along the way, but we really did go balls-out almost from day one. We're fairly well funded, so our timeline was moved up.

If I were you I'd learn and plan like crazy, ask a million questions, and save sheckles until you can get what you want.

We started with 3x30gal kettles and 1 40gal conical, thinking that we'd "just have the capacity for later, just incase"..... Four months later we had 6 conicals and a 68gal bright tank. I'm very happy we did. Struggling is not fun. We now have a fairly balanced brewhouse:fermentor setup (3passes through brewhouse = 2 full ferms).

A single pass brew day is 7-9 hours, no matter what. We can now do 3 passes in 8-9, provided we prepped properly in the days leading up.

Being cheap is often expensive, I'd suggest patience and buy big (ish) when you can.

-J.

 

[wilserbrewer]

IMO an easy path to 10 gallon batches is a 20-25 gallon kettle, a BIAB bag and a ratchet pulley.

Mash temp issues go away as the larger grain bills hold temp very well. Accurate strike temp and your mash rest will be easy peasy with 20-30 lbs of grain IME.

 

[hornet303]

Thanks for all the great responses. I think I know at least the next few purchases I need to make. A few items will be required:

- 20+ gal BK
- Second/Third 5gal Corney
- Second fermenter

What do you guys think regarding the second fermeter? I mentioned in my original post that I was leaning towards the 7.9 gal Speidel which run around $65. Does it make sense to go for the 15 gal for $25 more? The worst case scenario would be that I'm fermenting a 5 gal batch (~6 gal of liquid + yeast + trub) and have 10 gal of headspace (no blow-off tube for a 1.070 batch!).

I typically only do primary in carboy , dryhop in primary after fermentation stops, crash to 32 degrees for a day and CO2 rack to keg. Condition in the keg @ 68 for a week then in the kegerator @ 37 degrees and start carbing.

If 10 gal of headspace is an issue, I suppose I could push some CO2 into the fermentation vessel after I pitched.

Again, thanks for the notes. I know at least what my plan is for the next year or 2.

 

[jgrreed]

I'd definitely go bigger for 25$ more, and I'd definitely get two. It'll allow you to brew on two back to back weekends even if using a secondary, and the larger ones will allow you to make bigger batches, perhaps even multi run batches??

Do you have the fridge space??

 

[hornet303]

I don't think I have room for two. And all this is in a pretty cramped garage as it currently stands. I do want to get to 10 gallon batches within the next year. Part of the reasoning for 10 gallon batches is because finding time for a full brew day isn't always easy so I'd like to make that time more efficient if possible.

So no issues with having too much h headspace?

 

[hornet303]

Oh and fridge space is fairly limited. I couldn't fit 2x 15 gal fermenter, but maybe 1x15 gal and 1x6 gal bucket.

 

[ChelisHubby]

I would see if the large fermonsters would work better for your ferments. They are much cheaper than the Speidels.

 

[hornet303]

I would see if the large fermonsters would work better for your ferments. They are much cheaper than the Speidels.

Those might be nice for 5 gallon batches, but at 7 gallons, wouldnt work for 10 gallon batches unless you split them. I read some threads about how to make those do closed transfers, does anyone have pictures on how they got that to work?

 

[jigtwins]

I would go with the 60 liter speidel for 10g batches, and use buckets or carboys if you want to do a 5 g batch. I have a 30l and 60l speidel and love them.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I would go with the 60 liter speidel for 10g batches, and use buckets or carboys if you want to do a 5 g batch. I have a 30l and 60l speidel and love them.

Jay bird has new stainless fittings for the speidel's pretty cool for a few bucks. Ditch the plastic spigot.

You may want to look into the square speidels. My 60L is a rectangle and it fits nicely in my fermentor chamber. I can fit 4 brew buckets or 3 60L speidels in it.