NE Style IPA, too tough for a beginner?

[marjen]

I am just getting ready to start home brewing. I have been researching for the last year, trying to gain some knowledge before I jump in.

Over that time I have really fallen in love with NE style IPAs. Especially trillium brews like congress st and fort point ale. I have seen some recipes that look to clone these beers but wonder, is this something out of reach for a beginning brewer?

Below is one sample recipe i found. I dont fully understand it all at this point, but should give a ballpark of what I am looking to brew.


EDIT: Updated recipe with exact one JC from Trillium wrote up in a magazine that someone posted. Only subbing a Light DME from the recommended Golden LME.
Fort Point Clone

6 lb Muntons Light DME
1 lb Briess Bavarian Wheat DME
4 oz Briess Carapis Malt
4 oz British crystal 22°L

0.25 oz Columbus Hops @ 60 min
0.75 oz Columbus Hops @ 10 min
1 tsp irish moss @ 10 min
2oz Columbus at hop stand @ 180° for 30’

Wyeast British Ale 1098 Yeast @ 68°. Dry hop as krausen begins falling (day 4-5). (Or try 1056) (or WY 1318)

4oz Galaxy + 1 oz Columbus dry hop (after 4-5 days)
Site for 5 days then bottle.
4 0z? Corn Sugar Priming sugar how to make?
bottle - let sit 10-14 days

 

[JonM]

Looks like a fine recipe. Are you diving in to all grain right off the bat?

If you're not sure, I bet we can convert that to extract for you to make it much much simpler for a beginner.

 

[FVillatoro]

Brewing NEIPA/IPA/APAs is for the most part the same ordeal as any other "regular" recipe. But the late addition of hops, and in particular the whirlpooling/steeping at certain temperatures may take you a few tries to get down.

If you are confident with your chilling techniques, and have a good/accurate thermometer in order to drop the wort to the specified temperate, then by all means go for it.

One thing to keep in mind is that adding so many hops will produce a lot of debris and may give you a hell of a time with clogged siphons/spigots, so consider using a hop spider or loosely-tied hop bags.

Happy brewing!

 

[marjen]

Are you diving in to all grain right off the bat?

I am looking to do extract brewing. See I did not know that was an all grain recipe I could use some help to convert. Will it taste similar?

 

[JonM]

Pretty darn similar. I think all those hops will pretty effectively mask any big differences.

So, grain = .75 lbs of liquid malt extract or .60 lbs of dry. I'd sub all the 2-row and the wheat for light extract. That'll be 9.75 lbs of liquid, but if it only comes in 3 or 6 lb containers, you might want to make up the difference with dry. Or just use all dry.

The crushed caramel/carapils malt can be steeped in your brewing water before you add the extract.

The rest is pretty much the same.

 

[botigol]

On the LME option, wheat LME is usually a blend of 2-row and wheat, so you could go 6 lbs light LME and 3 lbs wheat LME and be pretty close. Then make up the difference in gravity as JonM suggested.

 

[marjen]

Which is better liquid or dry? And any brand recommendations? True beginner here so no idea what I am looking for. Thanks I appreciate the help.

 

[marjen]

Would something like this be correct?
Light Dry Malt Extract
http://www.homebrewing.org/Muntons-Plain-Extra-Light-DME-3-LBS_p_1431.html

Wheat Dry Malt Extract
http://www.homebrewing.org/Muntons-Plain-Wheat-DME-3-LBS_p_2110.html

Also does this look like a recipe for 5 gallons?

 

[TallDan]

As others mentioned, it's not much harder to brew an NEIPA than any other American ale. The big difference will be in the amount of money you'll spend on ingredients, namely hops.

As with anything, you'll get better and have more consistent results with some practice. There's a fair chance that your first batch will be great and you'll love it. There's also a chance that something will go wrong and the beer won't be very good. Maybe even so wrong that the beer is bad and you'll dump it down the drain.

So, if the prospect of dumping a batch that you cost you $25 in ingredients hurts a lot less than a batch that cost you $50, consider brewing an APA instead. If that difference in ingredient costs doesn't bother you, brew what you want to drink!

(dollar amounts totally pulled out of the air, but are probably not too far off when buying at a LHBS and paying for hops by the ounce)

 

[hezagenius]

I say go for it. Just be prepared for a learning curve until you get the hang of things.

Are you kegging or bottling? Kegging is preferred for this style since you can purge the keg to flush out oxygen. Oxygen is the bane of hops. Bottling can still be done but results may be sub-optimal.

 

[JonM]

That's a really good point about costs.

I completely ruined my second batch but it was only $20-25 in ingredients. I got ingredients for a simple IPA last night and it was about $30. Your proposed recipe might push $60. Might be a good idea to get a little practice in before giving it a go with lots of $ on the line.

 

[botigol]

Would something like this be correct?
Light Dry Malt Extract
http://www.homebrewing.org/Muntons-Plain-Extra-Light-DME-3-LBS_p_1431.html

Wheat Dry Malt Extract
http://www.homebrewing.org/Muntons-Plain-Wheat-DME-3-LBS_p_2110.html

Also does this look like a recipe for 5 gallons?

Yes, that will work. 6lbs of light DME and 1 lb of wheat DME would put you just a little short on gravity. Adding an extra pound of light DME would put you over by a bit. Either way should be fine. Yes, that looks like 5 gals. to me.

 

[marjen]

For now I am probably looking to bottle, I figure its easier. If this goes well I will move into kegging. Basically I want to try this a few times to see how it tastes. If I am close to want my goal is then I will ramp up gear and process. But if I am not in the ball park, will probably give up.

 

[VagueSkunk]

Something that all first time brewers need to hear: Your fermentation is NOT stuck! Just leave it alone and let the yeast do their thing.

 

[PADave]

Personally, I'd learn to brew something a little more basic. Like a simple IPA, or even a SMASH brew. I agree with what others have said about the cost. Why waste money with high dollar brews when just starting out? Learn to brew first, then get fancy. Start by reading "How to Brew" by Palmer.

 

[Timberline]

I too was worried that a D-IPA was "too hard" for me as a beginner. So I got another recipe kit and made a winter ale first and then my D-IPA second. I worried for no reason, the only significant difference was the more aggressive hop schedule. Full disclosure though, both were extract kits.

 

[marjen]

I found a slightly different recipe I think I am going to try first.

Fort Point Clone
10.0# 2-Row
1.5 # wheat
12oz dextrine
4 oz British crystal 22°L
0.25oz Columbus @ 60'
0.75 Columbus @ 10'
2oz Columbus hop stand @ 180° for 30'
4oz Citra dry hop
1oz Columbus dry hop
WLP007/WY1098/VT IPA Yeast @ 68°. Dry hop as krausen begins falling (day 4-5).


Ok So i am trying to figure out a couple parts of the recipe. Since i am going with extract I need to replace this:

10.0# 2-Row
1.5 # wheat
12oz dextrine
4 oz British crystal 22°L

So I think I would substitute 6lb of Muntons Light DME for the 2-row and .9 lb of Briess Bavarian Wheat DME for the wheat. I saw it mentioned above to still use the dextrine and british crystal? Is this true or do i need to substitute? Also I have done a ton of searches on the internet and can't seem to find what either of those last two products are.

I dont see any temps or time for the extract part? Is there like a standard temp that is used? And is the time part of the 60 mins total time? Also what is a 30' hop stand?

 

[motosapiens]

Below is one sample recipe i found. I dont fully understand it all at this point

If you don't fully understand the recipe, then I would say it's too tough, at least until you fully understand it.

If i were getting started in brewing right now, I would find a local homebrew club, on the web or facebook or ask at the local shop, then I would go to a meeting or post on their FB page asking if someone could use some beginner help on a brewday. Actually watching and helping in the process will make things more clear than hours of web research, and after that you would probably be ready to brew with confidence.

 

[McKnuckle]

If you've been researching for the past year, but don't recognize the difference between all-grain and extract ingredients, I'd advise to read a bit more about those specific differences. A recipe can be all extract, all grain, or a combination of extract with steeping grains. It can also be extract with some mashed grains (partial mash).

The trick to the combination approach is to know which types of malt can be steeped, vs. which need to be mashed.

Mashing is a fairly precise process of cooking milled grains within a particular temperature range for a period of 45-90 minutes, typically averaging 60. Steeping is just soaking the milled grains "around" the mash temperature range for much less time, like 20 minutes.

How To Brew, Brewing With Malt Extract:
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1

How To Brew, Brewing With Extract and Steeped Grain:
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2

How To Brew, Brewing All-Grain Beer:
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3

 

[worlddivides]

Ok So i am trying to figure out a couple parts of the recipe. Since i am going with extract I need to replace this:

10.0# 2-Row
1.5 # wheat
12oz dextrine
4 oz British crystal 22°L

So I think I would substitute 6lb of Muntons Light DME for the 2-row and .9 lb of Briess Bavarian Wheat DME for the wheat. I saw it mentioned above to still use the dextrine and british crystal? Is this true or do i need to substitute? Also I have done a ton of searches on the internet and can't seem to find what either of those last two products are.

I dont see any temps or time for the extract part? Is there like a standard temp that is used? And is the time part of the 60 mins total time? Also what is a 30' hop stand?

First, the only one of those you need to replace is the 2-row and the wheat. And technically you don't NEED to replace the wheat, but you probably will want to.

The Dextrine malt and the Crystal malt are specialty grains, so you would steep those. Dextrine is a type of malted barley (Carapils is an example of a dextrine malt).

Doing 100% extract is going to lack a lot of complexity, so it's good to have specialty grains for steeping. Plus, there is no such thing as a substitute for some of those things (hence why extract with steeping grains is popular).

Although temps and time are important for converting starches to sugars in all-grain brewing, in extract those starches have already been converted into sugars (that's the whole point behind extract).

Normally you steep the specialty grains until the water reaches 170F, then remove them (over 170F, starches are no longer converted to sugars and the grain can contribute astringency, which is not desired). When it starts boiling (at 212F), you turn off the heat and add in the extract, stirring it in so it doesn't burn on the bottom of the pot. After it's been mixing in, then you turn the heat back on, wait for the hot break, then start your bittering hop addition, etc. etc. etc..

In extract brewing, times are mainly used for hops. In the typical beer, you have bittering hops for 60 minutes (and sometimes for as long as 90 minutes or even longer). You also have flavoring hops that are usually between 15 and 30 minutes. And you have aroma hops which are 15 minutes or shorter. In recent pale ales and IPAs, there are oftentimes a lot of those within the last 5 minutes such as at flameout. Then there's dry hopping, which is adding dry hops to the fermenter, usually after primary fermentation has ended, for a certain period of time from 3 to 14 days (I usually do 5-7 days, but I've heard of some homebrewers dry-hopping for even longer than 2 weeks).

A hop stand is basically whirlpooling the hops after you turn the heat off at the end of the boil. That might be a bit complicated for your first beer, though.

 

[marjen]

I am watching and reading a ton and getting closer to understanding. I do get the differences between extract and all grain, just was not 100% on the terms. Also researching BIAB. Will probably move to that method later on. This is what I think I have at the moment.

1. Place 12oz dextrine AND 4 oz British crystal 22°L (or similar) in the kettle (6 gallons of water) and get to 150-155 degrees for 30 mins. Then remove from wort.
2. Remove the kettle from burner and mix in the extracts malts.
3. Once the extract malts are mixed in put kettle back on burner and get to boil? Not 100% sure on this temp 212?, boil for 60 mins.
4. Add first hop at right away, next with 10 mins left and final when the burner is shut off.
5. With 15 mins left put chiller in the kettle to help with sanitation.
6. Add hops at flame out and 30 min hop stand to 180 degrees.
7. Bring wort down to room temp with chiller.
8. Once at desired temp, move wart to sanitized fermentation bucket.
9. Introduce air but move the wart back and forth between kettle and fermenter bucket a couple times or from sloshing around fermenter bucket.
10. Add yeast to wort, place lid and blow off valve on.
11. Add first round of dry hop after 4 days. (not sure how to get it in bucket?
12. Add 2nd drop hop after another 4 days.
13. 4 days later bottle it.
14. Boil and create priming sugars.
15. sanitize bottling bucket, bottles, caps, and all tubing
16. drain to bottling bucket.
17. Bottle and cap.
18. leave in bottles for about 10-14 days.
19. Chill one deer and test.
20. Hope I did things correctly and enjoy

Did i miss anything?

 

[z-bob]

Pretty darn similar. I think all those hops will pretty effectively mask any big differences.

So, grain = .75 lbs of liquid malt extract or .60 lbs of dry. I'd sub all the 2-row and the wheat for light extract. That'll be 9.75 lbs of liquid, but if it only comes in 3 or 6 lb containers, you might want to make up the difference with dry. Or just use all dry.

The crushed caramel/carapils malt can be steeped in your brewing water before you add the extract.

The rest is pretty much the same.

I assume that's a 5 gallon recipe? Use 9 pounds of light LME and scale it back to 4.5 gallons. (multiply all the hops and everything by 0.9)

I recommend starting with a cheaper beer style to learn on. Or a kit from Northern Brewer? Make this one second.

 

[marjen]

I recommend starting with a cheaper beer style to learn on

What fun is that I say jump in with both feet and see what happens. Worst case I lose a few bucks on ingredients. From what i read as long as I sanitize, sanitize, sanitize, I should not COMPLETELY screw it up.

I will be writing out full directions to myself and make sure i go over the entire thing a ton in my head before i brew. I am just ordering all my equipment now, so it will be another couple weeks before i am ready to brew. Also need to get all my ingredients ordered, so far only ordered some of the hops and yeast.

 

[VagueSkunk]

It's your beer, you can do whatever you want with it. Probably best to listen to people with more experience though

 

[z-bob]

Did i miss anything?

It's been a long time since I did any extract beers, but I think you forgot to remove the dextrine and crystal malt after the half hour steep.

 

[marjen]

It's been a long time since I did any extract beers, but I think you forgot to remove the dextrine and crystal malt after the half hour steep.

Yes did not write it, i will but know to remove the bag with the specialty malt prior to adding the malt extract. Thanks.

 

[marjen]

It's your beer, you can do whatever you want with it. Probably best to listen to people with more experience though

I am listening to everything everyone is contributing and appreciate all the help, I am learning a lot. That is why I am hoping to have a decent first batch, because of everyones comments and the experience they have contributed.

Oh and how do i determine my alcohol ABV?

 

[worlddivides]

What fun is that I say jump in with both feet and see what happens. Worst case I lose a few bucks on ingredients. From what i read as long as I sanitize, sanitize, sanitize, I should not COMPLETELY screw it up.

I will be writing out full directions to myself and make sure i go over the entire thing a ton in my head before i brew. I am just ordering all my equipment now, so it will be another couple weeks before i am ready to brew. Also need to get all my ingredients ordered, so far only ordered some of the hops and yeast.

Sanitation is only one of many potential problems.

My first beer wasn't very good, but it had nothing to do with sanitation. In fact, just about everything in the boil itself went fine. My sanitation procedures were perfect too. But the two biggest problems I had with that beer were not getting the wort's temperature down quick enough for the cold break and not being able to control the fermentation temperature, which caused tons of off-flavors, which basically ruined the flavor.

Just a few things to keep in mind. If you do this as your first beer and it turns out good, that's great, but it does look like a pretty expensive beer to risk it on.

 

[marjen]

It looks like ingredients will run about $55. So yes losing $55 will suck if it does not go well, but so would losing $25-30. I still want to give it a go. Its tax return season after all!

The yeast says it needs to be between 64 and 75 degrees. Does that mean anywhere in that range and it will be fine? Or does it need to preferably stay within a couple degrees? And is that just until bottling?

 

[McKnuckle]

WY 1318, London Ale III... there are plenty of brewers who use that and have experience with it, including me. No, it's not okay to keep it literally "anywhere" in that large range, especially the part above 70F. I would adjust to anywhere between 63-70F, starting on the lower end and allowing (encouraging) it to climb after 2 days of fermentation to around 68F.