NanoBrewery + Brewpub

[KuraKura]

Hi, i have a goal to open up a brewpub in 2 years time and so i have been researching what are the essentials for me to open one. I have visited few forums and read a lot of thread regarding it and the comments really made me rethink of opening one.
The main problem for me is the budget. People said that to open a brewpub, a 7bbl brewery is recommended which the equipments itself already cost arnd 25k+, 3.5bbl is the minimum. So i have been thinking, what IF? what if i opened a nano brewery using a homebrew equipments?

I just want to ask your opinion of my "nanobrewery". Let's not talk about the operational cost, but more to the equipment cost and pros and cons.
Let's say i have 4 5-gallon kettle, 80 5-gallon fermentation bucket, 80 5-gallon kegs.
Starting with Brewing twice a day only on weekdays, 8 brew/ day, 160 brew/month. After a month, the work will be brewing twice, kegging 8 kegs.
So in total i will produce 160 5-gallon kegs/ months which is around 26 barrels.
Well, if using this set up. The pros is it just need small amount of budget, while the con is a lot of working time, hard to maintain the quality.

Well, what do you guys think?
Cheers

 

[JDL]

You should search the forums for this, there are some epic threads that detail peoples paths to professional brewing or failure. The disclaimer is that I have no professional brewing experience but from those threads I think mathematically this idea would not be successful.

Reading those threads and the legal side of it nearly gave me a headache and reminded me why I am a home brewer and not a businessman.

Jeff

 

[Paps]

There are a number of factors and that fact alone makes every situation different.
However a huge factor is the amount of rent you will be paying for commercial footage if that is the route you intended. I think the absolute smallest of nanobrewery have a 1-barrel system and these are the guys whom are using their garage as their nanobrewery. These guys are also not doing that as their main/sole income.
Attempting to go pro with a 5 gallon system IMHO is insane.
With a minimal investment you could fabricate a 1-barrel brewery and save a lot of time in comparison to a 5 gallon set up...consistancy will also be improved with a larger system.
But TBH your thread lacks information to get much iof any real feedback.
Are you planning on bottling at all?
Kegging only?
Sixtels run about $100 per and youll need more of than than you think you will. Each bar you sell to won't be on a timeframe to return your kegs.
They might sit in their cooler for weeks before it even gets `it's turn' to be on tap, then who knows how long it will be there before it's empty, a few more till they remind you to come and pick it back up. Also who's going to deliver these kegs if you are brewing twice daily,cleaning x number of kegs (gotta cleanem before refilling em) and THEN filling them.
What type of storefront are you planning?
Tap room? Who's going to play bartender?
You should post more info as to what exactly you are hoping to open and then perhaps people can give you the answers that you may need.
However i can surely say that a 5-gallon "pro-system" is flat out loony-bin territory.
Hope this helps.

 

[madscientist451]

Kegging only?
Sixtels run about $100 per and youll need more of than than you think you will. Each bar you sell to won't be on a timeframe to return your kegs.

Producing a small volume of beer and selling kegs to bars is a plan destined for failure. You need to be able to sell by the glass to make a decent profit. And beer drinkers want food as well so that means another opportunity for profit. You don't want people leaving to go get something to eat.
Making beer is only a small part of running a successful business.
You don't absolutely need a 3.5 bbl system to get started, I'd say the minimum would be 1 bbl. Besides the actual brewing equipment, you'll have a lot more money wrapped up in fermenters, temperature control, serving tanks, refrigeration for the finished beer, cleaning equipment and many other things. In my area a local brewer started with a Keggle brewing set up, I think he made about 20 gallons batches. Now he has a brew pub/restaurant. There are many other examples of starting small and being successful and also failing.

 

[Vandulus]

Most breweries have 2 sets of equipment - a test system so they can trial and perfect new recipes without worrying about cost and a larger system for production. I have a friend who opened a brewery 4 years ago and is expanding. His advice is to save up and go for the 7 BBL system as you'll be able to spend more time on other important things like marketing, distributing, book keeping, etc. Also brewing on a larger scale can give you more consistency if you're fastidious about your brewing process.

 

[m00ps]

Before you get too far ahead of yourself, what is your experience in brewing?

If you are remotely entertaining the idea of using homebrew equipment to distribute some small quantity of beer, I would think you'd want at least a 10gal setup. Those are pretty common. I would suggest 15 or even 20gal though

There is a truly "nano" brewery a bit over an hour from me that does one-off batches using locally foraged ingredients. They have a 2 barrel setup and always have a different tap list every time I go. THis doesnt really lend itself to hop forward styles of beer though. One time, they took me to the back to show me their equipment and I was surprised to see the exact same model pump I use for my homebrew batches. It must take them forever to transfer

 

[wolves63]

Hi, i have a goal to open up a brewpub in 2 years time and so i have been researching what are the essentials for me to open one. I have visited few forums and read a lot of thread regarding it and the comments really made me rethink of opening one.
The main problem for me is the budget. People said that to open a brewpub, a 7bbl brewery is recommended which the equipments itself already cost arnd 25k+, 3.5bbl is the minimum. So i have been thinking, what IF? what if i opened a nano brewery using a homebrew equipments?

I just want to ask your opinion of my "nanobrewery". Let's not talk about the operational cost, but more to the equipment cost and pros and cons.
Let's say i have 4 5-gallon kettle, 80 5-gallon fermentation bucket, 80 5-gallon kegs.
Starting with Brewing twice a day only on weekdays, 8 brew/ day, 160 brew/month. After a month, the work will be brewing twice, kegging 8 kegs.
So in total i will produce 160 5-gallon kegs/ months which is around 26 barrels.
Well, if using this set up. The pros is it just need small amount of budget, while the con is a lot of working time, hard to maintain the quality.

Well, what do you guys think?
Cheers

I have just opened a brewery and I can tell you go as large as you can. We have a 7 BBL system and a 1/2 BBL system and it is killer to brew on the small system. The brew days are almost just as long and you have to wait just as long for beer for the fermentation process. Our 1/2 BBL system lasts for 2 days at most then we are out. We would much rather brew on our big system any day. I would suggest a minimum of 3.5 bbl and 7 BBL if you can swing it. We have been open since may and we are almost at full capacity already!!!

 

[bruteforce]

Dogfish head started with a 10g setup. Sam has said in a lot of different places that it was the most brutal thing ever trying to keep up with it. Sleeping next to the system between transfers and mashes.

If you're going to do it, do it right. Get the money you need set aside. You can make it work, but only if you plan well and have the cash on hand.

Truth is, I am planning on opening my own place in 5 years. That could change, but by then I'll have $400k towards it. Thats my minimum cash on hand to venture into the world of pro brewing.

 

[Bassman2003]

The Brewing Network has some podcasts you can listen to about starting a Nano brewery. The short version is just what you said - working all of the time and not enough beer to make profits...

It sounds good but the reality of city business and brewing regulations make the home spun nature of the venture impossible. Basically it has to be a real business, not just makin' homebrew and selling it out of your trunk!

 

[kh54s10]

I kind of like the idea of going small and brewing more often. My idea was, instead of 4-6 beers to choose from, have a dozen or more. This would require a lot of fermentation and kegging equipment.

You might start by only opening part of the week. Maybe Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

Of the threads I have read it seems that 350K is about absolute minimum. Whatever amount you budget, double it.... Then take your timeline for when you start the permitting/opening process to opening and double or triple it.

It could work opening slowly and expanding, but would require a separate source of income. And a very low rent facility.

 

[Invertalon]

I priced out an entire 7-bbl brewing system, including brewhouse, FV's a Brite Tank, Glycol Chiller, Pumps, etc... You only think 30K? I got (3) direct quotes from manufacturers in the neighborhood of $150-170K. Not including all the kegs, rent on the property, permits/licenses, etc...

Working with a 1-3bbl system will mean you brew almost every day to supply a small taproom. That will get very old, quick. 5-7-bbl is really a target minimum for a taproom only if you can (although can be done with less, of course). Overall, my estimated startup cost is right around $300K.

 

[SanPancho]

most folks here have given you the pitfalls of thinking you can go homebrew style in a commercial enterprise.

let me get to the bottom of things for you. a brewer is a FACTORY. mass quantities. economies of scale. bulk purchasing. inventory management. transportation/distribution.

it does not lend itself to making 5gal batches of beer at a time. the ONLY way this could even possibly be considered to be a "successful" operation is if you are in fact a brewpub/tasting room and the VAST majority of your beer gets sold over your own bar.

if that's your plan, either go illegal/bootleg and run it out of your house/garage/etc or you're going to go the legit route and need to permit a food service facility. i'd say your $30k budget will probly just cover the drawings and fees to get your permits in place.

i'm the king (self-proclaimed) of budget build outs, but i'd guess you'd need more like $100k and some very good luck when it comes to finding a location that is already food prep-approved, or licensed for alcohol sale, a very eager and generous landlord, and local bars/restaurants that will agree to take your little (and expensive) 5 gal kegs.

lastly- having alot of constantly rotating beers is a horrible way to open up your brewery if you're trying to do bars/restaurants. you need a flagship beer or two that customers can always recognize, and bars know they can always get a fresh keg of quickly when it blows, otherwise your beer will be on tap one week only to disappear the next. save the experimental stuff for your tap room. or hand bottle 22s.

 

[Paps]

I would also like to chime in that a local 7-barrel brewery here told me that they spent 20-k on kegs alone. They just bought a new 15-barrel fermentation conical and it ran around 15-17-k.

I think the OP is in Indonesia so i've no idea what these items would cost over there and i think he said he malts his own millet as grain isn't readily available to him/her.Also have no idea what the laws are.

OP should perhaps brew for a few years before deciding to try to do it on a commercial level.

 

[SanPancho]

Ah. well if OP is in fact outside the US in a low cost area, then $30k may be plenty to get started. there's alot of folks who use plastic fermenters with no problems whatsoever, just have to figure out temp control. and in most countries where all homes/buildings generally have plastic water tanks, getting a hold of conical style tanks in plastic usually isnt that hard to do from the tank suppliers. usually just a special order with little bit of lead time.

in that case, 5gal of "premium" style hombrew delivered to small bars might be able to work, but id still think it most profitable/sustainable if he sold the majority over his own bar. save your profits, and start looking to reinvest.