Name that substance!

[kyt]

I normally brew kombucha and jun, I've got my first batch of hard cider sitting in bottles, but this is my first try at an "ale".
I got the recipe from a book, supposedly an old English alewive's ale.
There were no hops or herbs added.

I didn't have enough bottles for the full batch so I put what was left in a gallon jug. The images of the growth in the jug are attached.

5-gallon batch
Original 1.027 pH [email protected]°C
Bottled 1.015 pH [email protected]°C
Current 1.011 pH [email protected]°C

4.5lbs Golden Promise
1.5lbs rolled oats

Safale S04

In fermentor for 6-days (per recipe), racked to bottling bucket, added 93g of sucrose, then bottled. Bottles stored boxed in basement. Currently on day 6 in bottles. I opened one so I could get the numbers from it. There is no white film on any of the randomly selected bottles I examined. The one I opened was very carbonated, but as you probably already knew, no head retention.
Current SG taken from degassed sample. When I bottled it, it had a very strong hay and alcohol aroma and flavor. Now the hay flavor has diminished quite a bit, though still present. Still smells and tastes pretty sharply of alcohol.

Ideas?

 

[Glynn]

its infected Brett i believe.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Definately infected. I thought lacto but I'm no toxicologist. For sure an infection though. I know you said no herbs or hops so in curious you did boil the wort prior to pitching yeast in it didn't you? If not I'd guarantee that a lacto infection from the grains. If it was boiled prior to yeast pitch you picked up something while transferring. Worst case let it sit and see what develops. Might have a pretty good sour on your hands. Only time will tell however.

You should really only bottle when your at terminal gravity. Yeast don't follow your instructions. Your FG was low so of say you were probably done anyway. But you should really check FG 2-3 days apart to ensure there is no change. If there isn't then bottle. Just my .02. Sorry for your infection but it might be the best thing ever and you'll never reproduce it. Usually the way my luck runs anyway.

Happy Brewing.

 

[kyt]

I followed the recipe as it was written. The wort was not boiled together, but boiling water was poured over the grain in stages. I forget the time spans, so I'm going to approximate them based off what I remember. If the time is important, I can look it up again.
.5 gal boiling water to dry grain mix in bucket, wait 5min.
.5 gal boiling water to bucket, wait 10min.
1 gal boiling water to bucket, stir like crazy, wait 20min.
1 gal boiling water to bucket, wait 90min.
2 gal boiling water to bucket, strain out grains, let sit overnight.
Next day pitch yeast , wait 6 days.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

I followed the recipe as it was written. The wort was not boiled together, but boiling water was poured over the grain in stages. I forget the time spans, so I'm going to approximate them based off what I remember. If the time is important, I can look it up again. .5 gal boiling water to dry grain mix in bucket, wait 5min. .5 gal boiling water to bucket, wait 10min. 1 gal boiling water to bucket, stir like crazy, wait 20min. 1 gal boiling water to bucket, wait 90min. 2 gal boiling water to bucket, strain out grains, let sit overnight. Next day pitch yeast , wait 6 days.

Wow I'm not sure I would follow those instructions. Usually you would add grains to water around 160-165 using 1.25quarts of water per pound of grain. Let that sit for an hour stirring occasionally. Then drain the liquid and add an additional couple gallons stir like a mad man let it sit for 10 min then drain that. Measure the volume that you collected. Say 4.5gallons just for example. Then you would add the difference of that to your pre boil volume. For me I need 6.5 gallons pre boil. So I would add another 2 gallons stir like crazy then let sit for 10 more minutes. Then drain to boil kettle. Adding in the other 4.5 gallons so I have 6.5 gallons in boil kettle. Then heat that to boiling. Boil for 1 hour adding hops at appropriate times. Usually 60/15/5 or somewhere in there. Then cool as fast as capable and pitch yeast at around 65F then let it sit approx 1.5-2 weeks then it should be good to bottle but check gravity before. It should be consistent readings 2-3 days apart then you should be stable to bottle without worrying of bottle bombs. I would say you most likely picked up a lacto infection from unvoiced wort. Just my .02. But I wouldn't follow those instructions for your next batch.

 

[bleme]

+1

Not boiling your wort will guarantee an infection every time. That is probably what the recipe was after.

 

[kyt]

Unless it ages exceptionally well, I probably won't try making this recipe again. You're supposed to drink it at day 6, which I did try some, and it wasn't very good.

So if the white sheet is lacto-whatever, is that jug wasted? Or will it still be drinkable?
How long should I leave it to sit in the basement? Should I put all the bottles in the fridge tonight?

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Unless it ages exceptionally well, I probably won't try making this recipe again. You're supposed to drink it at day 6, which I did try some, and it wasn't very good. So if the white sheet is lacto-whatever, is that jug wasted? Or will it still be drinkable? How long should I leave it to sit in the basement? Should I put all the bottles in the fridge tonight?

It really depends on your tastes. If you like sour beers in a few months time that beer might be good. If you have some bottled at room temp I would chill them ASAP if it keeps fermenting in the bottle you risk bombs. I would clean the ever loving sh^t out of the container IF I was to use it again for fermenting. Is it glass or plastic. I would think as long as there are no scratches on it and you clean it very well it should be ok. Same goes for anything you racked the beer with. Yes grain is covered with Lactobacillus if you don't boil the wort before fermenting you are just inviting infection.

 

[kyt]

I don't know that I've ever had a sour beer.
That jug is glass. It came filled with apple juice that I turned to hard cider.
Guess I better go down and refrigerate all those bottles then.

 

[unionrdr]

That temp of 160-165F is too high for mashing. It'd be all right for steeping grains though.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

That temp of 160-165F is too high for mashing. It'd be all right for steeping grains though.

That was the temp I would use for strike water which would drop to 155F once doughed in. I agree 160-165F is too high for Mashing.

 

[PRE66_6TART]

I got the recipe from a book, supposedly an old English alewive's ale.

Wow. If that's what old English ale was like, I'm glad I don't live in old England. I'm sure it was better than drinking dirty water and dying of dysentery though.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

The OP said the original recipie came from an old alewife's recipie. They were probably doing open top fermentation and drinking the resulting beverage instead of water. We now know that all grains have bugs on them including lacto. boiling kiklls them, leaving a "virgin slate" for the yeasts we innoculate with. Our expectations have changed somewhat in 150 years or so. Hey, there are recipies for a fermented corn beverage in south america called Chika that requires the brewer to chew and spit out the corn into a bucket to provide the enzymes for malting. Not something that would go over very well today.

I applaud your efforts to resurect an ancient brewing process, but I bet a lot of those ancient beers were pretty nasty by today's standard.

If you want to experiment further, go through the same porocess but boil 60 minutes after you remove the grain, cool and pitch the yeast.

 

[unionrdr]

The South american beverage was Chicha. Still made today & DFH even made a batch once. The native Americans made a corn ale call Tiswin (pronounced Tizween).

 

[kyt]

Wow. If that's what old English ale was like, I'm glad I don't live in old England. I'm sure it was better than drinking dirty water and dying of dysentery though.

I agree, if I remember correctly, that was part of the purpose. That and they needed energy to work in the fields all day.

I applaud your efforts to resurect an ancient brewing process, but I bet a lot of those ancient beers were pretty nasty by today's standard.

If you want to experiment further, go through the same porocess but boil 60 minutes after you remove the grain, cool and pitch the yeast.

I had considered trying it again, but doing a few things differently. I recently signed up for BrewCrate.com, so once I get a few more, different, brews under my belt, I may revisit this recipe.

 

[Haji]

You might want to consider picking up a new bucket. Wild yeast and bacteria are notoriously hard to kill off once they've established themselves in a fermenter. Any subsequent batches you might brew could be contaminated.

 

[jro238]

Definitely a cool recipe and process (still not quite sure how reliable the mash would be) but not something I would try for my first brew

lactobacillus is a bacteria that produces lactic acid (which leads to a sour flavor). It won't hurt you and can produce some good sour beers if given enough time to age (at least a few months).

I'm also curious about the lack of hops in this recipe. I would assume that the beer is meant to be open-fermented or soured and thus provide balance to the malt without hops but I've certainly never tried it.

 

[unionrdr]

Real ales in old England didn't have hops. If they did,they were concidered to be "beer".

 

[jro238]

Real ales in old England didn't have hops. If they did,they were concidered to be "beer".

Ah. Learn something new everyday

 

[unionrdr]

I read that on one of those how to make old english beers things. Sounded like CAMRA preaching...& that's the way it was...

 

[Haji]

Depends on the time period. The OP didn't have any spices in the recipie that I could see qualifying as gruit. Even the Scots were using heather tips during pre-hop stages of brewing. Something from england at the pre-hop stage would have had at least some sort of herbal componet.

 

[kyt]

Correct there we no spices in this recipe.

 

[kyt]

I took a bottle down to my local homebrew shop. The guy working today said it tastes like lacto to him, and exactly how he expected it to taste based on how I told him it was made. He seemed to like it, I left him the rest of the bottle lol
It has a hay like flavor, he says that's probably because of the grain I used; it has very little toast.

I feel better about how it turned out, but I still don't enjoy it very much lol