My water profile/ adjustments for a Stout

[ZeroSynk]

Wondering what adjustments I will need to make to my tap water to make it suitable for a double chocolate Stout(Young's double chocolate clone).


My Tap water's profile is..

Alkalinity= 9.9ppm
Hardness= 13ppm
PH= 6.7
TDS= 21ppm
Calcium= 3.9ppm
Chloride=5ppm
Potassium=0.24ppm
Sodium= 2ppm
Sulphate= 0ppm
Boron= 0ppm
Bromide= 0ppm

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

That's really soft water. Great for brewing since its pretty much a blank slate. I highly recommend posting this in the Brew Science forum. Lots of great advice there. They also have a sticky there with the basics of water chemistry.

The next step is getting a water chemistry app. EZ water is one and Bru'nWater is another one. I use Bru'nWater and it is well worth the learning curve. You plug in your water parameters and your grain bill and it tracks your pH and color as you adjust your water profile. For a stout with water that soft, you will need to raise your pH by adding a base. I use pickling lime, which works great. Again, you can get advice on that in the Brew Science forum. Good luck.

 

[mabrungard]

Yep, good water. However, its not ideal for most stouts due to the low alkalinity.

The other thing to take care of is any chlorine compounds in the water (assuming this is from a municipal water supply).

 

[ZeroSynk]

Yep, good water. However, its not ideal for most stouts due to the low alkalinity.

The other thing to take care of is any chlorine compounds in the water (assuming this is from a municipal water supply).

Any suggestions on the best route to achieve both of these? I've never fooled around with water chemistry before.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Martin can explain it a lot better than I but basically, because of the low alkalinity in your water, the dark grains in your stout will lower the pH of your mash below the acceptable range of 5.2-5.6. That is why I mentioned above the need for lime or some other base to raise the pH to an acceptable level. Again, an app like Bru'nWater can help you sort this out. A browse through the water chemistry primer in the Brew Science forum will also help explain the basics of mash water chemistry.

The issue of chlorine compounds in city water is important because they can lead to off flavors. A bit of potassium metabisulfate (referred to as K-meta) will eliminate this. Campden tablets are a commercial version of this, too.

 

[ZeroSynk]

Martin can explain it a lot better than I but basically, because of the low alkalinity in your water, the dark grains in your stout will lower the pH of your mash below the acceptable range of 5.2-5.6. That is why I mentioned above the need for lime or some other base to raise the pH to an acceptable level. Again, an app like Bru'nWater can help you sort this out. A browse through the water chemistry primer in the Brew Science forum will also help explain the basics of mash water chemistry.

The issue of chlorine compounds in city water is important because they can lead to off flavors. A bit of potassium metabisulfate (referred to as K-meta) will eliminate this. Campden tablets are a commercial version of this, too.

So that grain bill will drop my PH from 6.7 to lower then 5.2? seems like a massive drop to me. But yea i might order some calcium carbonate if thats what your thinking! thanks!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Based upon your waters analyticals it has very little (almost zero) buffering capacity (which is the measure of its ability to resist change in pH). Therefore your waters initial pH is close to irrelevant with respect to where the highly acidic grist will take it as to "mash pH".

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

So that grain bill will drop my PH from 6.7 to lower then 5.2? seems like a massive drop to me. But yea i might order some calcium carbonate if thats what your thinking! thanks!

Silver^ is correct. The dark grains really will drop your pH that much without buffering capacity. I would also recommend not using calcium carbonate (chalk) to raise pH since it does not readily dissolve without additional measures. Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and lime are easy alternatives, although the former may raise your sodium levels too much. BTW, you can get pickling lime at your local Wal-Mart in the canning section.

 

[ZeroSynk]

So I got all the stuff I need(I think) but I really cant make any sense out of Ez water calculator. Being a complete noob with all this water chemistry stuff I have no idea how much to add or when to add it. Any help would be appreciated! I have campden tabs, Chaulk(not going to use) and pickling lime

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

I haven't used EZ water so I can't help you there. In Brunwater, you fill in the results of your water test on one page and enter your grain bill on another page. Then on a third page you can pick a water profile (e.g. "Yellow bitter" or "Amber malty") and adjust your mineral additions (calcium chloride, gypsum, etc) to fit the profile. You can also enter pH adjustments here (acid or base). It takes some reading and playing around to get the hang of it but it's worth it.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I'd recommend baking soda rather than chalk (Calcium carbonate) for raising pH. Chalk doesn't fully dissolve so it's hard to know how much it's actually increasing pH (most estimates say you can count on about half of it's actual capacity). Baking soda is far more effective and adds some Sodium, which your water could use.

 

[ZeroSynk]

Should I check the PH while it's in the mash tun for a few minutes.. slowly add a bit stir and test again?

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

I usually check my mash pH about 10 min after mashing in.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I usually check my mash pH about 10 min after mashing in.

Things are far too active and thereby variable at that juncture, so what you are measuring 10 minutes in will not be the mash pH. Much better to measure at 30 minutes, and even better yet at 60 minutes.

 

[ZeroSynk]

So PH doesn't effect the mashing process just the boil?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

So PH doesn't effect the mashing process just the boil?

pH affects mashing within a broad range in terms of conversion (I think anywhere from 5 to 6 will work). Even outside of this there will still be some enzyme activity, but it may be slower. Which is more important at a higher degree of precision - mash pH or boil pH? That's debatable and there has been lots of discussion (and some slightly heated argument) on here recently about it. Most brewers choose to manage the mash pH (boil pH should be about right if your mash pH is right).

What Silver is saying is that mash pH doesn't settle until late in the mash. Adjust your mash pH to aim for 5.4 (based on calculator) but don't measure until at least 30 mins in to the mash. Most brewers measure pH at 15 or 20 minutes in to the mash.

 

[ZeroSynk]

Sorry! Didn't know that question had the potential to open a can of worms! Im having a hard time really figuring out much sense in the couple water calculator programs and was just hoping to kind of do a cave man situation and adjust on the fly. Throw my grains in, wait a bit then measure and adjust from there. I normally just use my water without adjusting and get pretty good beer. Was just hoping to maybe get somewhat better water for this stout but didn't have to be perfect!

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Things are far too active and thereby variable at that juncture, so what you are measuring 10 minutes in will not be the mash pH. Much better to measure at 30 minutes, and even better yet at 60 minutes.

Yes, pH will change as the mash progresses but an early reading at 10-15 min allows for some correction with acid or base if you're out of range. By 30 or 60 minutes, conversion is pretty much done and it's too late to change to address pH during conversion. However, later measurement can still be useful for getting an idea of boil pH. Actually, my pH checks usually just confirm that I'm in the right ballpark. I don't bother adjusting as long as I'm somewhere between 5.2 and 5.7. However, there have been a couple of times that my pH was out of range and I was able to correct it early. Once I had the wrong water profile entered in Bru'nWater and ended up with a mash pH of 4.8 at 15 min. I was able to get it up over 5.2 with some lime.

 

[ZeroSynk]

Any suggestions how much to throw in the water before I mash to just get me kinda near the ball park so I wont have to do such a big adjustment when I check the mash afterwards. Im going to use pickling lime or baking soda.

 

[Turfgrass]

Martin can explain it a lot better than I but basically, because of the low alkalinity in your water, the dark grains in your stout will lower the pH of your mash below the acceptable range of 5.2-5.6. That is why I mentioned above the need for lime or some other base to raise the pH to an acceptable level. Again, an app like Bru'nWater can help you sort this out. A browse through the water chemistry primer in the Brew Science forum will also help explain the basics of mash water chemistry.

The issue of chlorine compounds in city water is important because they can lead to off flavors. A bit of potassium metabisulfate (referred to as K-meta) will eliminate this. Campden tablets are a commercial version of this, too.

Sorry about the hijack.....is there a rate per gallon of water when removing chlorine? I assume all towns add it to their water. Wasn’t on my ward lab report.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Sorry about the hijack.....is there a rate per gallon of water when removing chlorine? I assume all towns add it to their water. Wasn’t on my ward lab report.

For Camden tablets the rule of thumb is 1/4 tablet per 5 gallons of water. I believe a potassium metabisulfite based Cambden tablet weighs about 700 mg, so that would mean 175 mg for 5 gallons. For 1 gallon it would then be 35 mg.

1,000 mg = 1 gram

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

The same rule as above also applies to the removal of chloramines. Some municipal water supplies are treated with chlorine, some with chloramines, and some with both. 35 mg per gallon is generally sufficient to knock out both at one time.