My Super Efficient 5-Gallon Mash Lauter Tun

[TommyBoy]

If this faucet hose would work and you could have the below bracket pictured firmed up between the MPT and the "T" when you screw those two pieces together this could be a solution. Assume that you are also using threaded nipples between "Ts", hose, and ball valves in the below picture. After you make the bracket all you would need to do is tack weld a bolt on the back of the upper "T" and have that be the fastener to the bracket with a wing nut and some washers. You could then adjust the height per batch.

 

[nathan]

that's pretty smart!

 

[TommyBoy]

Thanks Nathan.

I was thinking that you would also probably need a nut behind the fabricated bracket. You would put the nut on as far as you can, put the bracket on, put the "T" on as much as possible while keeping the open end up, and then turn the nut counterclockwise to isolate the bracket in the upright position.

If you have a thermometer you would obviously need to have your Hartford Loop assembly a little further away from the kettle.

I am assuming that the faucet supply hose would be ok for this as it is made for hot and cold, drinkable water. If it is this should be an awesome way to make sparging a hands off process without a float switch.

 

[ChemE]

I very much like the idea of a flexible hose in a rigid but adjustable mount to serve as an adjustable hartford loop. As to the lack of head pressure resulting in a stuck sparge there is only one way to find out! I'm going to use the flexible hose this weekend when I brew my Fat Tire clone and I'll report back here as to the results. I keep my Barley Crusher set at 0.025" so my runoffs are already crazy slow. Wish me luck!

 

[TJ-Bill]

Did you use Oak for your Jig?

 

[ChemE]

Yeah. It was what I had lying around from this project...

190 Gallon Aquarium Base

 

[Jonnio]

Very nice - I miss my aquarium and I never went near that big - I bet it's beautiful.

 

[slnies]

Not to be critical, but that would have made one hell of a nice skirt for a keezer/bar base. Very spiffy though. I like it. S.

 

[McKBrew]

My pleasure. I seriously stood out in my shop for a few hours trying to come up with that jig. I'm glad someone else can benefit from it. I haven't taken it apart yet. If anyone needs more pictures in order to recreate it, I can certainly snap some and post them up.

That would be greatly apreciated. BTW your aquarium base rocks, I look forward to seeing what happens when you build your keezer.

 

[Zymurgrafi]

1) Accommodate 5 gallon all grain batches (except barleywine)
2) Provide good filter thickness even with low-gravity 2.25 gallon test batches
3) Minimize dead space so as not to reduce efficiency
4) Allow for batch sparging without exposing the mash to cold air
5) Allow for easy cleaning and maintenance
6) Rinse the grain bed as efficiently as possible in order to maximize efficiency

Nice looking setup first of all. I have a few questions. Especially about the highlighted goals.

I can appreciate this forethought as I did not have it. I have been having some difficulties lately with attempting to mash smaller gravity beers and not being able to reach or maintain the right mash temp.

When you are referring to deadspace are you referring to the amount of liquid left or the empty air space above the grain bed, or both? As you mention the difference in low gravity versus high gravity grists.

If it includes the air space above how does your design solve this?

Also you meant to say Fly-sparging didn't you? Or are you doing both with this design?

I batch sparge so I was hoping you did actually mean batch sparge

 

[nathan]

you could probably use silicon tubing like we use in our brewstands.

 

[ChemE]

Nice looking setup first of all. I have a few questions. Especially about the highlighted goals.

I can appreciate this forethought as I did not have it. I have been having some difficulties lately with attempting to mash smaller gravity beers and not being able to reach or maintain the right mash temp.

When you are referring to deadspace are you referring to the amount of liquid left or the empty air space above the grain bed, or both? As you mention the difference in low gravity versus high gravity grists.

If it includes the air space above how does your design solve this?

Also you meant to say Fly-sparging didn't you? Or are you doing both with this design?

I batch sparge so I was hoping you did actually mean batch sparge

Thanks!

By dead space I mean liquid left in the MLT which can not be drained.
I did mean to say fly sparge rather than batch sparge. Thanks for catching that mistake.

Minimization of air above the mash shouldn't be too difficult to address. I would use a cutout of 2" foam wrapped in heavy-duty aluminum foil. I'd drill a hole in the middle of it to accommodate the 1/2" CPVC pipe that I use for my sparge manifold and position the sparge manifold just below the foam false ceiling. The adjustable hartford loop will assure that fly sparging doesn't result in the liquid level rising too high.

 

[Zymurgrafi]

Thanks!

By dead space I mean liquid left in the MLT which can not be drained.
I did mean to say fly sparge rather than batch sparge. Thanks for catching that mistake.

Minimization of air above the mash shouldn't be too difficult to address. I would use a cutout of 2" foam wrapped in heavy-duty aluminum foil. I'd drill a hole in the middle of it to accommodate the 1/2" CPVC pipe that I use for my sparge manifold and position the sparge manifold just below the foam false ceiling. The adjustable hartford loop will assure that fly sparging doesn't result in the liquid level rising too high.

Yeah, I tried with a floating top made of 2" foam wrapped in foil like you suggest. Guess it just does not work for batch sparging. I suppose I need a smaller MLT for smaller beers.

 

[nathan]

or just deal with the tiny heat loss...
I half-fill my igloo marine cube during mashes and I only lose a degree or so if I've pre-heated it.

 

[beerjunky828]

So being very new in trying to convert to all grain, what is the copper manifold at the bottom of the MLT for? What is its purpose.

Thanks

 

[ChemE]

The copper manifold is used to separate the sweet wort from the crushed grains. Ideally, it would allow the sweet wort to freely and evenly flow into it while preventing any husk or flour from the crushed grains from entering.

 

[Mirilis]

Each grain bed is going to be slightly different though. I also seconds the question. Without being able to see how can you determine your water in compared to wort out? Even with the practice and experience answer, you need to be able to see the first few times to gain the practice and experience.


Off topic Mirillis, My inlaws live down the road from you on 36 in Covington!! A whopping 21 minutes. we should brew sometime when I'm up there. I'll bring the FIL and BIL down.

Thats excellent!! sorry it took me so long to reply. I havnt been able to spend much time on HBT lately with work and potential move. (my relocation should be going along.. i had my house in contract but the guy didnt get financing so now im back to square one). I gotta get this place sold before
my new one gets built in Delaware, otherwise im SOL.

 

[Aubie Stout]

Question:

When using the HLT, how do you adjust for the temp changes? I use Beersmith. Typically, the temperature of my initial infusion of water is different than that of my sparge water temps. So what do you do? Heat all the water in the HLT to 168 and heat your initial infusion seperately?

Right now, I heat water to temp and dump it in. It's a little more time consuming, but I hit whatever temp that Beersmith tells me to hit......

 

[beerjunky828]

so does cutting slits into the manifold make the grains easier to catch??

 

[Jonnio]

so does cutting slits into the manifold make the grains easier to catch??

Kind of - The slits are what let the wort flow into the manifold. Small holes, slits, or stainless braided line all do about the same thing which is create small openings to the outside that are big enough for wort to flow through, but not grain husks.

 

[ChemE]

Question:

When using the HLT, how do you adjust for the temp changes? I use Beersmith. Typically, the temperature of my initial infusion of water is different than that of my sparge water temps. So what do you do? Heat all the water in the HLT to 168 and heat your initial infusion seperately?

Right now, I heat water to temp and dump it in. It's a little more time consuming, but I hit whatever temp that Beersmith tells me to hit......

I personally decoct because I don't make light beers. I strike at 104F for 20 minutes to let the enzymes leach into the strike water then I boil the thick part of that mash to get up to my sach rest.

One nice thing about decoction mashing is you aren't adding additional water to your mash. So you can make bigger beers in the same MLT and there is more sparge water available. I think this is part of what is helping me get the brewhouse efficiency that I get (92% on my last batch).

 

[nathan]

I use beersmith to calculate what I want my strike water at. Right now with my cooler I put in a half gallon of nearly boiling water first for 5-10 minutes while I get other stuff ready. I dump that (it's a nice hot rinse and heats the tun) and put in the measured amount of strike water, but a few degrees hotter than called for. I leave the lid open and let it cool to exactly the strike temp called for (can take 5 minutes or more, stir if you are impatient). Dough-in and it turns out pretty close to perfect.

 

[slnies]

I personally decoct because I don't make light beers. I strike at 104F for 20 minutes to let the enzymes leach into the strike water then I boil the thick part of that mash to get up to my sach rest.

One nice thing about decoction mashing is you aren't adding additional water to your mash. So you can make bigger beers in the same MLT and there is more sparge water available. I think this is part of what is helping me get the brewhouse efficiency that I get (92% on my last batch).

I will disagree on the grounds that I got that in my five gallon RIMS set up. Even doing a big beer. My opinion, is that you have developed a process that you are consistent with. This making refinement easier, making your process more efficient. This is all my opinion though. Great efficiency though, excellent process. Some of my best beers have been decocted. S.

 

[ChemE]

Still you can't argue the fact that when decoction mashing there is more water available to wash the grains with because you aren't infusing with it.

My last beer had an OG of 1.074 and if I had infused rather than decocted I would have used 5.00 additional quarts of water in the mash. The final gravity of my last running from fly sparging was 1.012 so even if we assume that the gravity didn't change during the last 5.0 quarts of runnings that gives 1.25(12) = 16 points out of a theoretical 404.75 points. So the extra sparge water upped my efficiency at least 3.7% and actually more since we know that my constant gravity assumption is ridiculous.

 

[craigd]

Maybe I'm not understanding this well but won't the Hartford loop only work to control the level in the MLT if there is a full free flow through the grain bed? I guess what I'm saying is that if your bed is draining slower than the incoming sparge water or your mash just gets stuck it could still overflow and you wouldn't be able to see the level rising in the cooler. I will freely admit that I haven't used anything like this so I may just be missing something...

 

[nathan]

with practice you'll have free mashes anyway, especially fly sparging with the extra fluid involved.

 

[slnies]

Still you can't argue the fact that when decoction mashing there is more water available to wash the grains with because you aren't infusing with it.

My last beer had an OG of 1.074 and if I had infused rather than decocted I would have used 5.00 additional quarts of water in the mash. The final gravity of my last running from fly sparging was 1.012 so even if we assume that the gravity didn't change during the last 5.0 quarts of runnings that gives 1.25(12) = 16 points out of a theoretical 404.75 points. So the extra sparge water upped my efficiency at least 3.7% and actually more since we know that my constant gravity assumption is ridiculous.

I would argue that you have good process as opposed to the equipment being the reason for the efficiency. I agree that the extra sparge water is the reason for the good efficiency, but I get 93+ percent batch sparging. I have done both. And batch over fly, is a decision of convenience. I can get better efficiency fly sparging, but the difference for my system was small, so I batch. S.

 

[slnies]

with practice you'll have free mashes anyway, especially fly sparging with the extra fluid involved.

Agreed, After a few, batches of brew, the fly will be adjusted just perfect. This assumes that the crush is consistent.

 

[TerapinChef]

Some of us were discussing internal sparge manifolds on cooler lids over the summer, bud none of us did it...

*Ahemm*
I managed to squeeze one in...no fancy pvc or ball valve, but it works...

 

[gruversm]

Great design! Thanks for sharing.

 

[mattmcl]

With all the talk of the Hartford loop, I was wondering if there isn't some kind of flowmeter available. You could get two of them, and just make sure the flow was the same for both.

 

[nathan]

my return for my blichmann looks just like that. I drilled, squirted water through, then drilled more until I could see it sprinkling nice and evenly over the top. Pretty easy! I did put threaded ends on the 4 ends of the H shape. Then I thread caps onto them, so I can remove them and get a brush in there as needed.

 

[user 29674]

With all the talk of the Hartford loop, I was wondering if there isn't some kind of flowmeter available. You could get two of them, and just make sure the flow was the same for both.

There are, but I'm not finding any (with pricing listed) that can handle particles in the liquid (such as during vorlauf), high temperatures, and are precise enough to accurtely measure the low flow of sparging for a reasonable amount of money. There are a lot out there designed for aquariums and liquid cooled PCs that look good but can't handle the temps. That being said, I've spent a total of 5 minutes on google, so I bet there's something out there.

This looks the most promising, but will set you back $92 and you need two of them... Water Flowmeters and Basic Visual Indicators

I like the idea though, adjust your valves until the two read the same and you're good. Something to keep in mind for when I graduate to AG.

 

[TommyBoy]

Wouldn't a flowmeter in some way restrict the flow?

 

[user 29674]

I wouldn't think so, as long as you use the proper size for your tubing. They couldn't do a very good job of measuring rate of flow if they slowed it down. The only thing I could think of is if you used an impeller type that wasn't rated for suspended particles and clogged the impeller. That would definitely restrict flow.

 

[TerapinChef]

Any update on the Harford Loop use? Does it work? I'm interested...I bet you could even get it to the point where you know where to set it just by the amount of grains in your grain bill...I can see my bracket marked now..."Porter" "Birthday Stout" "Hobgoblin"...

 

[TommyBoy]

I only have a parts list put together...

 

[TommyBoy]

I would plan on milling the "slider" bracket and tacking the bolt on to the top tee. This would then hook directly up to your 1/2" MPT

 

[TerapinChef]

Are you sure that you would want to put a ball valve on the output topside? Wouldn't the flow just be regulated by the Hartford Loop anyways? I feel if anything it should be on the bottom T leading to the H.L. so that you can close that open part of your system at the top, enabling a good siphon for when you are draining after sparging.

 

[ChemE]

Are you sure that you would want to put a ball valve on the output topside? Wouldn't the flow just be regulated by the Hartford Loop anyways? I feel if anything it should be on the bottom T leading to the H.L. so that you can close that open part of your system at the top, enabling a good siphon for when you are draining after sparging.

No ball valve is needed on the top at all. Flow out is regulated by flow into the top of the MLT.