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My so easy anyone can do it tower build.

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DoubleFisted

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Here is a list of my supplies I used.

4x4 Plastic fence post 18"
3" PVC 13"
Toilet bowl gasket
Plastic drain
Black Spray Paint
Two fence post tops
PVC Cement

It is super easy to build just cut your pvc to the length you want it. Drill the holes in your fence post for how every man taps you want. Cut out a circle at the bottom of the fence post so that the PVC fits in. Attach the gasket to the bottom of the drain out, attach the drain out to the PVC and then attach it to your keezer or kegerator. And yes there will be two more faucets in the center once they come in from Austin Homebrew.

kegerator.jpg
 
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DoubleFisted

DoubleFisted

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Also had to drill new holes and drilled two holes in the PVC for the hoses to the shanks

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Hoosier-Brewer

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You can fit 4 kegs in that fridge? What about foaming, how are you keeping the tower and lines cool to the taps?
 

brewit2it

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Cool, love it!! PVC and toilet bowl gasket:mug:

Did you put any insulation inside the tower? It might be worth running the lines through a length of pipe insulation.
 
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DoubleFisted

DoubleFisted

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Hoosier-Brewer said:
You can fit 4 kegs in that fridge? What about foaming, how are you keeping the tower and lines cool to the taps?
Actually yes I can almost fit five it actually is a lot bigger than it really looks. It is a commercial kegerator. I also put attic insulation in it and it also gets cooled from a pre existing cooling hose from the fridge. And my 20 pound co2 tank is on the outside helps the co2 to last longer.

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DoubleFisted

DoubleFisted

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wilserbrewer said:
Sorry, but inside or outside of the fridge lasts the same AFAIK?:):mug:
This is actually not true it's a proven fact of simple chemistry.

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tmurph6

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This is actually not true it's a proven fact of simple chemistry.

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That makes no sense. There's a fixed amount of gas in the tank. Whether the gas is cold or warm makes no difference. Now, if you warm the tank up after it's "run out" under cold conditions, then yeah, you can eek a little more out of it. To say that you run out faster when it's cold is false.
 

mikemoss

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PV=RT

R and V are held constant.

So as T increases P increases, therefore increasing amount of time that the pressure inside of the canister remains high enough to be usable.

Even though this is using the ideal gas approximation and real CO2 is not an ideal gas the trend still holds.
 

mullenite

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PV=RT

R and V are held constant.

So as T increases P increases, therefore increasing amount of time that the pressure inside of the canister remains high enough to be usable.

Even though this is using the ideal gas approximation and real CO2 is not an ideal gas the trend still holds.
It's actually pV=nRT...

Where p = pressure, V = volume of CO2, n = the mass (in grams) of co2 + 44, R = .082L*ATM/K, and T = temperature it K.

Just semantics really, but worth clearing up in my opinion.
 

tmurph6

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Time has nothing to do with the ideal gas approximation. As I said, if you increase temperature you can eek out more gas from your tank because pressure increases. However, time has nothing to do with it.

EDIT: It can be a lot of things, you can call it Pv=RT where v is specific volume.
 
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DoubleFisted

DoubleFisted

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I'm not sure about you but I don't get my co2 delivered in a refrigerated truck

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dusty1025

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hmmm...i wonder why tanks of inert gas will explode when exposed to extreme high temperatures.

my guess is increased internal pressure.

It stands to reason that if you vent that pressure at a fixed rate it would take longer than a tank at room temperature or much longer than a refrigerated tank.
 

mullenite

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hmmm...i wonder why tanks of inert gas will explode when exposed to extreme high temperatures.

my guess is increased internal pressure.

It stands to reason that if you vent that pressure at a fixed rate it would take longer than a tank at room temperature or much longer than a refrigerated tank.
The pressure changes, the amount of gas does not.
 

mikemoss

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It's actually pV=nRT...

Where p = pressure, V = volume of CO2, n = the mass (in grams) of co2 + 44, R = .082L*ATM/K, and T = temperature it K.

Just semantics really, but worth clearing up in my opinion.

Pv=RT is the same equation just uses the specific volume and the predetermined gas constant for whatever gas you choose to use. There are many forms of the ideal gas approx. They are all the same equation manipulated to fit the needs of different fields. In fluids we used P=ρRT where ρ was density ie 1/volume. If you looked at the units on any ideal gas equation they would all work out the same.
 

NevermoreBrew

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Pv=RT

temperature goes down... pressure.goes down.

If you leave your co2 tank in the fridge the pressure will go down. As you use the gas the pressure goes down until there isn't any more left. At this point if you were to take the tank out of the fridge and let it warm up, you would get more pressure and could use it more. However, most people that have a kegorator dont have the capability to use the co2 in the fridge or out so most of the time people have to pick one. If you pick inside, your c02 will not last as long.
 

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It's actually pV=nRT...

Where p = pressure, V = volume of CO2, n = the mass (in grams) of co2 + 44, R = .082L*ATM/K, and T = temperature it K.

Just semantics really, but worth clearing up in my opinion.
This is more of a heat/mass transfer problem than a "simple chemistry" problem solved by a single equation. The critical error was assuming steady state conditions.

If you're moving the CO2 from a warm environment to a cold environment then depending on the rate of transfer of energy (ignoring thermal mass) from the "warm" CO2 to the cooler environment then the CO2 will cool and densify and the surrounding environment will rise in temperature. If you pour you beer really fast then the energy transfer to the environment will happen faster than it can be removed from the refridgerator so the CO2 will be warmer and less dense so you will get more CO2 out of a tank outside the fridge. If you pour your beer slowly or only occasionally pour a glass then the cool environment can be assumed to be a heat sink and the CO2 will cool to the same temperature and densify to the same as if the tank were on the inside.

So essentially you're all right and the problem is really only dependent on how bid your party is. :rockin:

Go Purdue Boilers - 2011 NCAA Champs........hopefully.
 

brewit2it

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You guys are way over thinking this. You don't get more CO2 from a tank based on the temp that you store it. The only way to make it last longer is to add less to the volume of beer being dispensed so you can either dirink it less carbonated or at a higher temp.
 
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DoubleFisted

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My question is if you blow up a balloon with air ( gas ) and then place it in a fridge it shrinks. Why is that if temp does not matter? Bring it back out and it inflates back up. Not completely the same size. Hmmmm

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tmurph6

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DoubleFisted said:
My question is if you blow up a balloon with air ( gas ) and then place it in a fridge it shrinks. Why is that if temp does not matter? Bring it back out and it inflates back up. Not completely the same size. Hmmmm

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You've proven our point though. You don't destroy matter just because you change temperature. The same amount of mass is inside the ballon regardless of temperature.
 
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DoubleFisted

DoubleFisted

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I'm nit sure I'd agree with that fully. If I let out a balloon full of air that I just blew up it would release the same amount I put in. If I put it in the fridge for 2 hours and let out the air I bet there is less air.

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DoubleFisted

DoubleFisted

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And I'm not saying anyones wrong here but I know the guy that fills my co2 is a fire extinguisher place and be is the one that told me about it. I feel he would understand it a bit but I'm not saying either party is wrong here.

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mikemoss

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I'm nit sure I'd agree with that fully. If I let out a balloon full of air that I just blew up it would release the same amount I put in. If I put it in the fridge for 2 hours and let out the air I bet there is less air.

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Less volume, same mass. Conservation of mass holds everywhere outside of a nuclear reactor.

Over time smaller molecules (like helium) can escape from a balloon but CO2 is much larger the helium. Also 2 hours would not be enough time for a significant amount of anything to escape through a latex balloon.

A tank at room temp may be able to dispense slightly more beer than one that is refrigerated because the specific volume of the warm CO2 is slightly greater than cold CO2.

Also someone earlier said that it was all about the volume and that temp didn't matter. But the fact still holds that 5 lbs of cold CO2 takes up less space than 5 lbs of warm CO2.

The best way to test this would be to keep the tank refrigerated until the pressure becomes too low to dispense beer. Then take the tank out and place it in a bucket of warm water and see if it makes it if you can get a few more pours.

I know this works for propane and I see no reason why it wouldn't work for CO2 as well.

I like what McTarnamins said at the beginning of this page. I was pretty much assuming that the process would happen rather quickly; not giving the CO2 to come down in temperature enough to matter very much.
 

McTarnamins

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Less volume, same mass. Conservation of mass holds everywhere outside of a nuclear reactor.

Over time smaller molecules (like helium) can escape from a balloon but CO2 is much larger the helium. Also 2 hours would not be enough time for a significant amount of anything to escape through a latex balloon.

A tank at room temp may be able to dispense slightly more beer than one that is refrigerated because the specific volume of the warm CO2 is slightly greater than cold CO2.

Also someone earlier said that it was all about the volume and that temp didn't matter. But the fact still holds that 5 lbs of cold CO2 takes up less space than 5 lbs of warm CO2.

The best way to test this would be to keep the tank refrigerated until the pressure becomes too low to dispense beer. Then take the tank out and place it in a bucket of warm water and see if it makes it if you can get a few more pours.

I know this works for propane and I see no reason why it wouldn't work for CO2 as well.

I like what McTarnamins said at the beginning of this page. I was pretty much assuming that the process would happen rather quickly; not giving the CO2 to come down in temperature enough to matter very much.
This is a fairly simple heat/mass transfer problem. Different assumptions and energy flow rates will give you either a yes/no answer on if the tank outside will provide more pints. There is no arguing this....it depends on the inputs and the assumptions.
 

JuanMoore

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hmmm...i wonder why tanks of inert gas will explode when exposed to extreme high temperatures.

my guess is increased internal pressure.

It stands to reason that if you vent that pressure at a fixed rate it would take longer than a tank at room temperature or much longer than a refrigerated tank.
The gas is not being vented at a fixed RATE, it's being vented into the beer at a fixed PRESSURE (and temperature). The temp or pressure that the gas is stored at before it gets there has no effect on the usage.
 

JuanMoore

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Very true. I know when i'm mig welding outside in the winter my shielding gas lasts less than half the time as indoors
Completely different. First, welding uses flow regulators rather than pressure regulators, which is completely different. Second, the main difference in welding indoors vs outside has to do with ambient wind and not temperature. Mig welding outside uses more gas because you have to turn up the flow to compensate for the wind blowing the gas away. Inside where there's no wind you can slow the flow rate and still get sufficient shielding because the gas lingers close to the gun longer.
 

Seabee John

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this is almost better than my college Chem class! more proof that when beer is the goal, we can figure anything out... too bad once the beer flows, we can never remember what we figured out in the first place! :D
 
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