My Riptide broke!

[Cameronl]

How did this happen? It worked find during the brew day yesterday. I undid the triclamp and pulled the head off as one piece and put it in a bucket of PBW along with other items in need of cleaning. When I pulled out and separated it into its parts, I found this little black nubbin. It took me a minute to realize what part of the impeller it came from. It's not a clean break, either. The faces of the nub and the impeller both look crumbly, like it had been eaten by chemicals. Any ideas what may of happened? I've never left it soaking in anything for any extended period, other than some PBW for an hour or so, and infrequently at that.

I haven't treated it roughly. A few times I may have accidentally turned it on dry, but switched it right back off.

I only purchased this 16 months ago. Maybe a dozen batches?

Also, replacements are out of stock everywhere, although Blichmann's website says it'll be back in stock right about now (mid Oct).
Luckily, I have a couple of back up Chuggers I can put back into service for now.

 

[Broken Crow]

An unfortunate reality we live with is that even the best plastics will deteriorate over time, especially when used hot-side...But that's usually measured over several years. Have you contacted Blichmann about this? 16-months is far too short a lifetime for that! Has it ever handled or soaked in anything other than wort or PBW?

 

[Deadalus]

My cat his me trapped in my chair so I can't get to looking at mine right now. From the schematics, it looks like perhaps the impeller didn't marry up properly with the stem and somehow it sheared off that piece. Mine is on the HLT side so I rarely take it apart to remember how it fits.

 

[Deadalus]

But in looking at the NPT and TC manuals, there may be slight differences at the impeller. Which version do you have? The TC version shows the stem I referenced but not seeing the stem on the NPT.

 

[Deadalus]

If TC, if the stem was somehow misaligned/crooked, it might stress that connection over time?

 

[Broken Crow]

^^ Great points.... You can do a quick test to determine if it was mechanical or chemical, though it's not 100%:
If you run your finger over the parts; do they leave a black residue on your skin, do more tiny bits crumble? If so, it is deterioration but if it's completely clean that'd lean heavily toward mechanical failure.

 

[Deadalus]

Over at Brewhardware the replacement impeller is mentioned as being brown with a "more generous fit on the shaft."

 

[Deadalus]

Ok, I had to break free. I have the NPT and there is a shaft, I opened mine up. (Needs cleaning!) I wasn't understanding the keyed end of the impeller when looking at the schematics. Seemed like if a bar was in the slots the impeller wouldn't move. No bar across the slots, maybe it lets fluids out? Anyway, maybe your stem is slightly off or too tight. I happen to actually have a brown impeller. I bought it very lightly used a few years ago. I don't remember buying a new impeller myself. I would recall if it broke! Mine does have a slight cadence to it that makes it a little more noticeable than my Spike Flow. The out of stock and chanfe to briwn makes me wonder if there is some issue they are still correcting.

One person's detailed observations here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum...-on-blichmann-riptide-pump.16925/#post-193915

 

[Cameronl]

^^ Great points.... You can do a quick test to determine if it was mechanical or chemical, though it's not 100%:
If you run your finger over the parts; do they leave a black residue on your skin, do more tiny bits crumble? If so, it is deterioration but if it's completely clean that'd lean heavily toward mechanical failure.

Took a closer look under a magnifier with a good light. No more crumbling or residue. I think it sheared, but the break is worn. It probably broke early in the brewing stage yesterday and the surfaces were just grinding on each other. Pump worked fine, though.

Have you contacted Blichmann about this? 16-months is far too short a lifetime for that!

I haven't contacted them yet. It happened on Saturday. I'll call or email tomorrow.

 

[Cameronl]

Ok, I had to break free. I have the NPT and there is a shaft, I opened mine up. (Needs cleaning!) I wasn't understanding the keyed end of the impeller when looking at the schematics. Seemed like if a bar was in the slots the impeller wouldn't move. No bar across the slots, maybe it lets fluids out? Anyway, maybe your stem is slightly off or too tight. I happen to actually have a brown impeller. I bought it very lightly used a few years ago. I don't remember buying a new impeller myself. I would recall if it broke! Mine does have a slight cadence to it that makes it a little more noticeable than my Spike Flow. The out of stock and chanfe to briwn makes me wonder if there is some issue they are still correcting.

One person's detailed observations here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum...-on-blichmann-riptide-pump.16925/#post-193915

Hmmm. Maybe I'm tightening too much? I also am guilty of running near-boiling wort through it...

 

[Deadalus]

I don't run anything hotter than 180F through mine, and that's only by accident. Max is generally ~170F. I've never had the magnet decouple from the heat. It did used to happen with my March pumps sometimes. I don't know if overtightening would misalign the shaft. I have once or twice mispositioned the TC gasket to where it still sealed (probably). This was on the dump valve of my unitank though at the blank after the valve. I think it would be somewhat hard to have the flanges of a TC fitting not be reasonably parallel but I haven't been using them particularly long. I'm more familiar with NPT fittings. I think perhaps the shaft itself has a chance to not be perpendicular to the plane of the impeller, the shaft is leaning minutely maybe. I'm not sure how to go about measuring that since the parts around it also won't be perfect either.

 

[Broken Crow]

That's polysulfone isn't it? That stuff's rated for well over boiling. You've got this stuck in my head now so now I'm gonna gave to go pull my Riptide apart and see if I can figure it out.

 

[Cameronl]

I heard back from Blichmann. Basically, the answer is, "You dun f'ed up."

Thank you for reaching out. We should have impellers back in stock soon. Usually when we see this it is one of a few things. It could be that the pump has been ran without the washer, it has been ran dry, or when cleaning the impeller is dropped or something is dropped onto the impeller.

1. Washer was always in place. I even ordered spares just in case I lose it.
2. I've run it dry for a second or two a few times, but nothing excessive. Still, it could add up I guess.

Maybe it was that last one? I guess I shouldn't just plunk things into a bucket of cleaner (see my post under "Don't Do That" about casually dropping in a hydrometer, only to have it bottom out and break.)

I'll purchase a new one, and be a little more gentle when disassembling and cleaning.

 

[Bobby_M]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't take my pump apart. I understand one of the big marketing angles of the TC-the-head-off design was ease of disassembly, but I think of it as a solution looking for a problem. I pump 150F PBW solution through all the plumbing, which in turns cleans the pump head. Take the pump head apart once a year or every 20 brews or if you have a performance issue you want to investigate. If it ain't broke. Note that 99% of the time I take my pump apart, I'm like "yup, looks brand new".

PBW recirc after every brew day keeps organic soil from building up.
Citric Acid 4% solution once or twice a year keeps beerstone and iron from building up (and repairs the surface of the stainless).

 

[JAReeves]

I run one-step or PBW cleaner and then star san through the entire system after every brew. It seems to be working, but I also am open to suggestions for better longevity of the equipment.

 

[Deadalus]

I don't take either of the two pumps apart frequently. I CIP with the wort side pump every brew but don't run PBW through the other one. I spray out the HLT after brewing but only hit it with PBW every couple brews. I could work some PBW into the HLT side pretty easy after sparging though since I use the excess water (HERMS system) for cleaning the MT anyway. Wouldn't even add any time really, just toss it in and recirc while the last gallon or so drains from the fly sparge from the MT. It would be done recirculating by the time the boil is started and the MT emptied. That's an easy one, got my vote there @Bobby_M!

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I'm with you. I can't remember the last time I took my pump apart. I took it apart when I first got my system 10-12 years ago and figured I was going to do more harm then good (March pump). Same with most of my valves. Run pbw or sometimes just hot water through the system at the end of a brew day, do citric acid maybe once a year when the BK and MT start looking dingy.

 

[Cameronl]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't take my pump apart. I understand one of the big marketing angles of the TC-the-head-off design was ease of disassembly, but I think of it as a solution looking for a problem. I pump 150F PBW solution through all the plumbing, which in turns cleans the pump head. Take the pump head apart once a year or every 20 brews or if you have a performance issue you want to investigate. If it ain't broke. Note that 99% of the time I take my pump apart, I'm like "yup, looks brand new".

PBW recirc after every brew day keeps organic soil from building up.
Citric Acid 4% solution once or twice a year keeps beerstone and iron from building up (and repairs the surface of the stainless).

You're right. I will not be disassembling it frequently in the future.
New impeller ordered. Hopefully they'll be back in stock soon.
In the meantime, I'll bust out the old chugger (and a pair of earplugs).

 

[brewbama]

I disassemble, inspect, clean and air dry the pump head after every brew. I have replaced the impeller a cpl yrs ago because one of the ‘tabs’ on that ‘nub’ was broken. I just figured it was the cost of doing business.

 

[genotype]

I also take apart, clean, dry and reassemble after every brew day. I've gone through one O ring and have lost 1 washer in 5+ years. Recently purchased a 2nd one with TC fittings to make my life even easier.

 

[Razorback_Jack]

Happened to mine after only a handful of brews. Probably four years ago, now. Got the replacement, and haven’t had any problem since.

 

[day_trippr]

Bad design. March impellers aren't similarly cursed...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

Bad design. March impellers aren't similarly cursed...

...as long as you replace the thrust washer before it's completely worn down.
Always keep a few in stock.

 

[day_trippr]

Yes, that's true, and I keep a dozen thrust washers on hand. But it's not a fatal afliction for the impeller, just noisy. When I do a hot PBW recirculation I always pull the heads afterwards to check the washers...

Cheers!

 

[Fidelity101]

Am I the only one really disappointed in Blichmann’s customer service and concern for quality? I have a pump with less than 5 batches of use. Given it’s more than a year old but it’s well cared for and low hours.

The first problem was the bearings in the main body began to make a grinding noise. Customer service was notified and the only option was to buy an entire body (minus the head). So I purchased $8 worth of bearings on Amazon and I’m back in action.

I run another batch and now I hear scratching and noise in the head unit during the brew. I open it up to find the center post in the head is loose. Again, I contact Blichmann and I’m told “it’s rare that happens”. I don’t particularly care if it’s rare so long as they warranty a pump that clearly has issues. Again, no offer for support. So I’m going to pull the pin out and press it back in with a bushing…something I shouldn’t have to do.

I am very disappointed in this service and I hope this isn’t a common issue with them as riptide pumps use to be among the best.

 

[VTMongoose]

Am I the only one really disappointed in Blichmann’s customer service and concern for quality? I have a pump with less than 5 batches of use. Given it’s more than a year old but it’s well cared for and low hours.

The first problem was the bearings in the main body began to make a grinding noise. Customer service was notified and the only option was to buy an entire body (minus the head). So I purchased $8 worth of bearings on Amazon and I’m back in action.

I run another batch and now I hear scratching and noise in the head unit during the brew. I open it up to find the center post in the head is loose. Again, I contact Blichmann and I’m told “it’s rare that happens”. I don’t particularly care if it’s rare so long as they warranty a pump that clearly has issues. Again, no offer for support. So I’m going to pull the pin out and press it back in with a bushing…something I shouldn’t have to do.

I am very disappointed in this service and I hope this isn’t a common issue with them as riptide pumps use to be among the best.

I normally am more politically correct than this, but this is complete ********. I bought a brand new 1.5" TC Riptide from Bobby at BH and just a little over a year after I bought it, the impeller had a hole in the side of the metal part of the impeller and the press-fit shaft was loose. I called Blichmann and got the same "that rarely happens" spiel except they also told me "we improved the head design and eliminated the washer" and effectively made me pay up for the "new revised" pump head, a new impeller, and cup which cost me something like $170 shipped.

Here is a link to the video showing the difference between the new and old heads that I made last year for my homebrew club.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LxhHQPfeNQ1h1rHu5

Keep in mind this means this "revised head" has existed for well over a year at this point but there's so much inventory of the old style pump that people are still buying "brand new" pumps that have the old pump head that's prone to failure. The new head actually is a nice improvement over the old head, however is a bit noisier and makes a bit of a grinding noise I don't particularly like (although at this point it's done like 20 brews and isn't getting worse).

At this point I am telling people to buy the Spike pump frankly because the whole experience with Blichmann was very negative for me.

 

[Fidelity101]

Thank you very much for sharing this information. I have a spike pump as well and given this Blichmann pump failed, I’ll probably buy another spike pump.

Blichmann knows there was a problem and is not being honest with their customers. You don’t make a design change because it’s fun, you do it because you’re addressing an issue with the design. The old way of press fitting in this pin is clearly not a long lasting solution.

 

[Bobby_M]

With all that being said, there are Riptide pumps out in the field in the thousands that are not having any running problems and the grass is always greener somewhere else if you have a bad pump in your hands. If you think Spike pumps are without any problems, I have a bridge available cheap.

 

[Fidelity101]

I 100% agree with you that nothing is perfect and mass produced items all have that inherent risk! That’s not what this is about. It’s the lack of customer care over a clearly defective pump. Telling a customer that they don’t see a problem and refusing to offer a solution is horrible customer service. They could offer discounted replacement parts or even a discount code towards future items which would not hurt their bottom line and would greatly improve their (currently declining) reputation.

The new design has a screw in pin in the head…that’s smart. The old design has a pin pressed into the head…that’s NOT smart. You’re subjecting two different components to vibration and heat differentials which will eventually fail. All I’m asking them to do is own it and offer a token of customer service.

I fixed the bearings by putting in higher quality bearings. I am fixing the head by press fitting shims. It won’t last forever but it’s good for a backup.

Your point about Spike is valid…but they’ve always made it right (at least by me) in helping with a solution or sending a replacement. That’s why Spike products will continue to replace Blichmann in every system I have control over.

 

[VTMongoose]

I 100% agree with you that nothing is perfect and mass produced items all have that inherent risk! That’s not what this is about. It’s the lack of customer care over a clearly defective pump. Telling a customer that they don’t see a problem and refusing to offer a solution is horrible customer service. They could offer discounted replacement parts or even a discount code towards future items which would not hurt their bottom line and would greatly improve their (currently declining) reputation.

The new design has a screw in pin in the head…that’s smart. The old design has a pin pressed into the head…that’s NOT smart. You’re subjecting two different components to vibration and heat differentials which will eventually fail. All I’m asking them to do is own it and offer a token of customer service.

I fixed the bearings by putting in higher quality bearings. I am fixing the head by press fitting shims. It won’t last forever but it’s good for a backup.

Your point about Spike is valid…but they’ve always made it right (at least by me) in helping with a solution or sending a replacement. That’s why Spike products will continue to replace Blichmann in every system I have control over.

Out of curiosity... did you do a detailed write-up on the bearing replacement anywhere? Was it complicated? I'm not sure if mine will ever fail but there's always a possibility.

What Bobby said is true, I know for a fact Andrew at Love2Brew is still using a Riptide circa probably 2014 or older that is all original. But perhaps back then they were better built than the newer ones.

 

[Fidelity101]

Fortunately, it's a very easy process.

1.) Remove the pum head from the pump body by removing the TC clamp.
2.) Remove the motor bracket from the pump motor....4 phillips head screws.
3.) Inside the Motor bracket, you will find the cup magnet that's held on the shaft by a set screw...remove that set screw and take it off the shaft.
4.) Remove the 4 phillips head screws from the back...they're long... then remove the back cover.
5.) BEFORE you start pulling the shaft out, note that in front of that front bearing is a washer that's used in take up the slack between the length of the housing and the length of the shaft. Don't loose that because Blichmann does not sell replacements. (They only sell the entire motor body as one unit)
6.) Remove the shaft and then pull the bearings off the shaft. I used an adjustable wrench under the bearing (avoiding the c clip) and taped the shaft lightly with a rubber mallet to remove the bearings. You may be able to just wiggle it out yourself as mine came off very easily. Do the same with the back bearing. Put the new bearings on...they just slide into place against the c clips. (I used https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VPQZZMV)
7.) Reverse the process and you're good to go!

After doing this, mine was extremely quiet.


https://www.blichmannengineering.com/media/wysiwyg/UpdatedManuals/RipTide_Pump_V8.pdf

I am sure quality has gone down over the years like anything else. In terms of build quality, I can't tell the different in materials used when comparing the riptide pump to any other cheap pump from china. They both use high carbon steel bearings with a plastic seal instead of ceramic or stainless steel bearings. They both use tricks (like the compression washer) to fill in space because the design tolerances are so high. They're all value engineered. I suppose building a pump with tighter tolerances and quality parts would probably cost more than the $250 they're selling these pumps for.

 

[Cameronl]

I'll jump back in her and just say that I am more than happy with my purchase, even if I had to replace the impeller. As I said early, I was probably man-handling the innards more than necessary. It's fixed and is working just fine. It is still a tremendous improvement over my very loud chugger pumps.

 

[Fidelity101]

Just to close the loop on this, I was able to pull the center pin out with just my hands and a little movement. The pin and the head had formed enough rust to allow play. The pump head unit is 3 years old...I'll give it that. It has also had 5 runs through it and was always cleaned and dried after every use.

I am still blaming poor quality compenents on this pre mature failure but I appreciate that others have had better luck.

I was able to fix mine but turned the knurled edges enough to bite in a different spot and pressed it place again.

 

[Dland]

Just a reminder to have spare parts for your Riptide, or any other pump for that matter. Mine stopped yesterday in the middle of a brew, fortunately I did have a spare impeller in stock.

My guess it the metal sheath for the magnetic drive wore through a while ago, but yesterday it developed a burr. Possibly I could have muddled though temporarily by removing the burr, but replacement is easier. I probably have a little more than 100 batches on this pump, so I guess it is not that bad.

 

[Razorback_Jack]

I also found a burr late last Fall, hearing some horrible noises as I started a transfer to keg. Ended up just letting gravity finish the teansfer. Replaced the impeller later, and I’m considering getting another one as backup. Annoying little things.