My new goal- $10.00 to make 5 gallons

[augiedoggy]

mine might actually be a bit more...I estimated off of kals numbers..(I have noticed no real increase in my electric bill ).. Being that I live 5 minutes from the niagara falls power damn you would thing our power would be cheaper than most but they sell the power to canada and NYC and we pay the same premiums as everyone else so I'm told..
If it makes you feel any better we have some of the highest gasoline prices in the country... although no one has a good reason why..

 

[sudsstud]

So for a 4% abv pale ale:

Malt: ~$40 for a 50# sack of 2 row= $0.80/# x 7#= $5.60 for base malt + ~$1 for 1/2# of crystal malt ($6.60 total for malt)
Yeast: $4 for a pack of US05 divided by say, 5 generations= $0.80 total for yeast.
Hops: I have ordered bulk hops for ~$10-$20/# including shipping so if you want Amarillo pale ale, forget it. But hops like Cascade, Columbus, and Chinook can be ~$0.80/ounce x 3 ounces = $2.40 total for hops.
Energy: I can get about 6 brews out of a 20# propane tank for which I pay $11, so <$2 for propane. I biab on my electric stove top. So that's a 1200 watt burner on high for maybe 2 hours (2 1/2 kilowatts x ~15¢/kw= <$0.40)

Factor in sanitizer, priming sugar, CO2, bottle caps, etc and you're over $10 but still quite frugal, nonetheless.

 

[smccarter]

I recently bought 90 Lb of grain, 1 1/8 lb of hops, and 4 smack packs of yeast. I'm going to brew 8 beers with all of that, reusing the yeast to brew the same beer twice (4 different beers, brewed 2x each). With shipping, my ingredients cost me just under 25 dollars per 5 gallon batch. Of course, I bought Marris Otter instead of 2-row, and the hops were bought by the ounce.

This is the largest purchase I've ever made, which includes a 55 lb bag of Marris Otter. I'd like to be able to bring the cost, per 5 gallon batch, to 10 bucks or less, but I'm skeptical. My biggest issue would be quality. What kind of product I'd be making.

I thought 25 bucks was good. If someone can consistently brew a 5 gallon batch for 10 bucks or less (for the ingredients), and brew a decent beer, my hat is off to you.

 

[ong]

I buy all my hops for the year in December or so, averaging around $10/lb. 2-row is $35 for 50 lbs at my LHBS (and I pick it up on my cargo bike, so no gasoline costs!). Crystal is $1.65/lb. So a 5 gal. keg of pale ale using 4oz of boil hops and 2oz of dry hops, 10 lb. of base malt, and 1 lb. of crystal (these are my average numbers) is $12.40, assuming I re-use yeast. None of this counts sanitizer, co2, or propane/natural gas, of course. But still, that's awfully inexpensive for excellent beer.

 

[BierMuncher]

I recently bought 90 Lb of grain, 1 1/8 lb of hops, and 4 smack packs of yeast. I'm going to brew 8 beers with all of that, reusing the yeast to brew the same beer twice (4 different beers, brewed 2x each). With shipping, my ingredients cost me just under 25 dollars per 5 gallon batch. Of course, I bought Marris Otter instead of 2-row, and the hops were bought by the ounce.

This is the largest purchase I've ever made, which includes a 55 lb bag of Marris Otter. I'd like to be able to bring the cost, per 5 gallon batch, to 10 bucks or less, but I'm skeptical. My biggest issue would be quality. What kind of product I'd be making.

I thought 25 bucks was good. If someone can consistently brew a 5 gallon batch for 10 bucks or less (for the ingredients), and brew a decent beer, my hat is off to you.

I don't think the question is quality so much as style. A well crafted Mild is a relatively light grain bill and light on the Hops budget. It can be brewed to medal standards and still be extremely cheap to produce. Same goes for Light Lagers, Ordinary Bitters, Cream Ales. They may not be style the brewer desires, but they can still be of extremely high quality (decent beer).

Now, try and brew a double IPA or even a hopped up American Amber, and the shear ingredeints to get the beer to style standards will push you out of your $10 per 5 gallon budget...even if you produce 5 gallons of swill.

 

[prohl84]

I don't think the question is quality so much as style. A well crafted Mild is a relatively light grain bill and light on the Hops budget. It can be brewed to medal standards and still be extremely cheap to produce. Same goes for Light Lagers, Ordinary Bitters, Cream Ales. They may not be style the brewer desires, but they can still be of extremely high quality (decent beer).

Now, try and brew a double IPA or even a hopped up American Amber, and the shear ingredeints to get the beer to style standards will push you out of your $10 per 5 gallon budget...even if you produce 5 gallons of swill.

Bingo. I just calculated the cost of a 1047/ 35IBU sMasH Pils @ around $13.50 for 6.5 gallons. Bulk hops/ grain/ re-used yeast. Maybe $17 all together after bottling and fuel. If I get 60 beers that puts me just under 30 cents/ beer.

big ol' RIS on the other hand.... not quite so cheap until you compare to commercial.

 

[Dynachrome]

... I bought Marris Otter instead of 2-row, and the hops were bought by the ounce...

..I thought 25 bucks was good. If someone can consistently brew a 5 gallon batch for 10 bucks or less (for the ingredients), and brew a decent beer, my hat is off to you.

I started using Marris Otter too. It makes a nice beer.

Side note, I think I'd just figure the cost of ingredients. ...personal point of view. I have to pay lights, mortgage taxes, insurance etc... couple bucks in natural gas, NBD.

-Cluster Flocc'd- ...Noice!

 

[Dynachrome]

...averaging around $10/lb.

Did I read that correctly? $10 per pound of grain?!

 

[Dynachrome]

I thought 25 bucks was good. If someone can consistently brew a 5 gallon batch for 10 bucks or less (for the ingredients), and brew a decent beer, my hat is off to you.

For your chart, what ABV are you achieving. It looks a tidge on the higher side.

$425 per year, huh? I'm glad I never added mine up. I might have to cut back or quit.

 

[403Brewer]

$10 not possible in Canada, but if you factor in that a 6 pk of Mirror Pond goes for $15 here spending $30-40/batch is still a major savings

 

[OleBrewing]

I have figured the average style of beer in the 4.5 to 5.5% range will cost me around $0.40 to $0.60 a 12oz beer. This not including equipment or sanitizer. Incudes propane yeast bottlecaps etc. If i can make a beer better than a pbr at $0.40 a can it is a win.

The equipment cost is what gets you. Which in the end the equipment will retain most value and the initial cost diminishes with the beer produced.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

I think we are getting away from the heart of this thread. The reality is, if you are the brewer who, by whatever circumstances, needs to brew a beer at home, and do it albeit inexpensively, it can be done. A cream ale, a brown ale, a pale ale, even a Kölsch, etc. tasty, quality, made at home beer CAN be made, at home, for $5 a case. And thats cool! An RIS? An IPA?? A dopple bock!! Thats like a Christmas gift! I've been on both sides of the fence, poor, and far better off. This gives us a place to adventure into the life well lived. Even if the bank acct cant support a hobby. Jus sayin


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[TrustyOlJohnson]

If u invest in flip top bottles, the rubber washers can be reused approx 5 times. Free bottles, caps are $2 a case for the good ones. Washed yeast. Bleach and Dawn for cleaning and sanitizing. get free food grade buckets from a restaurant. Invest in an autosiphon. SMASH recipes, low abv, adjuncts like cooking rice or corn from a garden or quaker oats. Pumpkin for pumpkin beers. Spruce tips in the spring, you can make alot of beers. Cheap.


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[Misplaced_Canuck]

Low-hopped beers, beers with table sugar (in moderation, in the style of UK Bitters, etc), reusing yeast, bulk grain buys, using inexpensive adjunct, and sparging a LONGER time to get a higher efficiency will get you there.

My last batch of hefeweizen was $8.85 for 10-gallons.

MC

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

When I am running low, I make a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort with approximately 8 lbs 2 row. Mash at 148. Collect 5.5 gallons and boil 30 min with 1/4 oz hops. At flame out I fill 24 qt jars and in the end I have canned 5 gallons (24 qt jars or a combination or pint and qt jars) of wort. I use this for starters, bottle conditioning and meeting target post boil volumes. I dont buy DME anymore and rarely buy corn sugar. BIG $$ saver!!


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[kombat]

I make a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort with approximately 8 lbs 2 row. Mash at 148. Collect 5.5 gallons and boil 30 min with 1/4 oz hops. At flame out I fill 24 qt jars and in the end I have canned 5 gallons (24 qt jars or a combination or pint and qt jars) of wort.

Do you put the jars through an actual canning cycle after filling them, or do you just fill them and seal them straight from the boil kettle? Do you chill the wort before filling the jars? What kind of jar lids do you use - the screw-on kind, or the 2-piece lid and locking ring kind?

I'd be nervous about contamination without a full high-temperature canning cycle, and exploding jars if you're using regular screw-on lids or leaving the locking rings on in the case of 2-piece lids. Boiled wort is not sterile, nor are the jars and lids.

 

[Hamaki]

Low-hopped beers, beers with table sugar (in moderation, in the style of UK Bitters, etc), reusing yeast, bulk grain buys, using inexpensive adjunct, and sparging a LONGER time to get a higher efficiency will get you there.

My last batch of hefeweizen was $8.85 for 10-gallons.

MC

That's a heckuva deal! More details, please! I figure grain & hops at my bulk costs run just over $9.50 for a 5.5 gal batch of hef.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Do you put the jars through an actual canning cycle after filling them, or do you just fill them and seal them straight from the boil kettle? Do you chill the wort before filling the jars? What kind of jar lids do you use - the screw-on kind, or the 2-piece lid and locking ring kind?

I'd be nervous about contamination without a full high-temperature canning cycle, and exploding jars if you're using regular screw-on lids or leaving the locking rings on in the case of 2-piece lids. Boiled wort is not sterile, nor are the jars and lids.

I dont have a pressure cooker available, so when the mash is complete, I put the clean jars in the oven at 200 deg for 20 min jus like I do my bottles. The lids and rings go in boiling water. After I boil the wort for 30 min, I flame out and pour directly into the jars leaving about 3/8" headspace and put a lid and ring on and tighten it. If it pops down, I keep it. When I open a jar, it has to have a nice "pop" and hissing sound, look, smell, and taste right. The small amount of hops also acts as a preservative.
This method works for all types of canning food, and maybe I am missing something here, but with a mash ph of appox 5.0, and boiling the wort, lids, rings and essentially jars, what bacteria can be present? I know that green beans when canned have to be placed in a pressure cooker to kill bocculism (sp) but thats the only food that my mom put in a pressure cooker. She was a home economics teacher and taught me how to can food. She jus never canned wort.


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[kombat]

I put the clean jars in the oven at 200 deg for 20 min jus like I do my bottles. The lids and rings go in boiling water. After I boil the wort for 30 min, I flame out and pour directly into the jars leaving about 3/8" headspace and put a lid and ring on and tighten it. If it pops down, I keep it. When I open a jar, it has to have a nice "pop" and hissing sound, look, smell, and taste right.

Perfect, that sounds like a good practice. At least this way, if you do get any kind of contamination, the lid will unseat rather than the jar exploding (which, of course, is the entire point of the design in the first place).

This method works for all types of canning food

I'm relatively new to canning myself, but I don't believe that's true. As I understand it, canning is divided into two primary categories: High-acid things that can be safely canned in a boiling water bath, and low-acid things that must be pressure canned at 250° F. Wort is a sugary, low-acid solution that fits under the "must be pressure canned" at 250 °F category.

Can you get away with simply boiling it and bottling it? I would imagine that would work most of the time (as your experience seems to prove), especially if you're using the wort relatively soon after bottling it.

and maybe I am missing something here, but with a mash ph of appox 5.0, and boiling the wort, lids, rings and essentially jars, what bacteria can be present?

Clostridium botulinum, the bacteria that produces the neurotoxin that causes botulism. And plain old boiling is not a panacea. According to Wikipedia:

Although the botulinum toxin is destroyed by thorough cooking over the course of a few minutes, the spore itself is not killed by the temperatures reached with normal sea-level-pressure boiling, leaving it free to grow and again produce the toxin when conditions are right. Commercially canned goods are required to undergo a "botulinum cook" in a pressure cooker at 121 °C (250 °F) for 3 minutes, and so rarely cause botulism

I know that green beans when canned have to be placed in a pressure cooker to kill bocculism (sp) but thats the only food that my mom put in a pressure cooker. She was a home economics teacher and taught me how to can food. She just never canned wort.

As I mentioned, the acidity of the food being canned is a big factor in determining whether you can get away with a simple water bath, or if you require the higher temperature that can only be achieved with an autoclave or a pressure canner. From Wikipedia's page on Home Canning:

Unless the food being preserved has a high acid (pH <4.6), salt or sugar content (resulting in water availability <0.85), such as pickles or jellies, the filled jars are also processed under pressure in a canner, a specialized type of pressure cooker. Ordinary pressure cookers are not recommended for canning as their smaller size and the reduced thickness of the cooker wall will not allow for the correct building up and reducing time of pressure, which is factored into the overall processing time and therefore will not destroy all the harmful microorganisms. The goal in using a pressure canner is to achieve a "botulinum cook" of 121°C for 3 minutes, throughout the entire volume of canned product.

Wort falls under the category of "things that must be heated to 250° F for at least 3 minutes" in order to ensure complete eradication of Clostridium botulinum. But again, as I said, if you're using them within a few days, or you discard the ones whose lids have popped (indicating the production of gas suggesting bacterial activity), you're probably fine. But don't quote me on that. I pressure can all my starter wort, as is recommended.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Kombat, thanks for doing the legwork there. And it sounds like pressure canning may be a better practice. Ive used wort that has been canned for 3 months with no problems. I would think that any bacteria would present itself either as something I would see, smell, or taste or it would affect the jar in someway, ie popping the lid, but it sounds like I need to do some more research.


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[prohl84]

The equipment cost is what gets you. Which in the end the equipment will retain most value and the initial cost diminishes with the beer produced.

I've only been brewing about 2 years and with the money I've already saved by not buying beer I have broken even on my equipment costs.

 

[OleBrewing]

I've only been brewing about 2 years and with the money I've already saved by not buying beer I have broken even on my equipment costs.

Yep that's the way I look at it. Its nice to be able to justify equipment costs. Gives a reason to brew. Only 20 more batches and my kettle will be paying me

 

[Setesh]

I played around with the numbers a bit, and my base cost of utilities and water for a batch is about $3 since I do electric brewing. I buy my grain from our LHBS or Northern Brewer so the cheapest I get grain is about $1.46 a pound. My average batch ends up costing me about $20 once you factor in yeast. I will use yeast for 4-5 generations so I only count about $1.50 per batch for yeast. Apparently I need to get in on some group buys. Unfortunately nobody ever seems to do them in OKC.

 

[Hamaki]

Buying base malts by the bag usually gets them to $1/lb or less but then the specialty malts kick in - for me at $1.90/lb. Aside from reusing yeast, another big savings for me is ordering hops by the pound on line for under $1/oz vs $2+ per ounce at the LHBS.

Tomorrow's batch is Ed Worts Haus Pale Ale at a cost of about $16 for ingredients to make 5 gallons. May not be $10 but I like it as well as if not more than SNPA which would run me about $62 for the same amount.

I haven't even tried to figure out when my equipment will be paid off. Without itemizing, I think I'm probably about $1,500 into it and only 25 or 30 5 gal batches so far. Probably need to go another 25 or 30 to break even but how much more equipment will I have bought by then? It's a vicious cycle.

 

[RM-MN]

Malted barley is sold by the pound and its cost is relatively high. Feed barley is sold by the bushel and is much cheaper per pound but it might have stems and weed seeds in it. Good 2 row malted barley will have the diastatic power to convert nearly twice its weigh in unmalted barley so you could cut your costs by going to a 35/65 percent mix of malted and feed barley. I've done exactly that with rye and wheat from my farm bin and it converts fine. Wheat usually gets me the same efficiency but rye always comes out a little low.

 

[ntempleton]

@RM-MN: Has feed grain been malted?

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[RM-MN]

@RM-MN: Has feed grain been malted?

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Of course not, it's feed. Your malted barley can convert the starches in the unmalted as long as your malted has sufficient diastatic power.

 

[thadius856]

Kombat, thanks for doing the legwork there. And it sounds like pressure canning may be a better practice. Ive used wort that has been canned for 3 months with no problems. I would think that any bacteria would present itself either as something I would see, smell, or taste or it would affect the jar in someway, ie popping the lid, but it sounds like I need to do some more research.


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Botulism is especially dangerous because you won't notice it's a problem until it's almost too late.

Count your lucky stars.

 

[prohl84]

Doesn't botulism create CO2- it would definitely be popping lids in that case? Can you kill it with Sodium Metabisulfate?

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

So I had an lengthy and informative conversation with my Mom today. She had a career as a home economics teacher and has been canning all of her life (ie born in 1938, grew up on a rural farm, so since the late 40's). Note that she has no dog in this fight, doesn't drink alchohol and doesnt care that I do or dont. Botulism does exist, although she has never seen a case of an infection. Boiling kills the bacteria, but heating to 250 deg (which requires a pressure cooker to get above 250 deg without boiling and reducing the boiled item) is necessary to kill the spore. And even if the spore persists, boiling will kill the bacteria that it creates ( ie boiling before making a starter or adding to a boiling wort to bring levels up). It has been common practice to pressure cook canned foods that are basic in nature (green beans, corn or potatoes, canned meat, etc.). However, beer wort has a mash ph in the 4.8-5.2 range, which is very close to the CDC threshold of <4.6. And then the wort is boiled each time before yeast is pitched. Has anyone ever heard of a beer drinker being infected with Botulism? Or a need to pressure cook beer to kill the spore? This discussion is really becoming moot, because like lactobaccillus bacteria, its killed in the boil. And if an infection were present, it would manifest itself in expansion or the canning jars and off smells and flavors after it has been stored and opened. Unless Im missing something, this concern is much ado about nothing.


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