My insane 25 Gal, 100 Percent Hard Plumbed Tri-Clover, Automated Tippy Build

[Bensiff]

What's wrong with exposing pre-boil wort to threads? The only benefit of homebrew triclover on wort-making equipment is that it's relatively easy to clean. The typical chinese fittings are far from being sanitary level finish, homebrew pumps aren't sanitary, silicone tubing isn't sanitary. Blichmann uses a stainless steel float on the end of the silicone tubing for their sparge device. I think you can special order just the float through a LHBS that carries Blichmann gear. One of those silicone foam stoppers might work too. You should avoid recirculating wort through a sparge arm, it's going to cause a lot of shear stress and aeration.

Easy to clean is no small matter IMO, ripping apart equipment and getting into those threads is a major PIA. Above that they make it easy to switch hoses around and easy to keep uniformity of fittings. As far as them being truly sanitary, probably most microbreweries suffer the same issue of quality. However IME it doesn't matter much, its pretty hard to get an infection that will ruin a beer.

 

[mattd2]

Sorry to derail your thread somewhat MJ but...
Why are the asian TC not sanitary? I can understand the NPT adaptor ones but are you saying pretty much all of them arn't?

 

[Bensiff]

Sorry to derail your thread somewhat MJ but... Why are the asian TC not sanitary? I can understand the NPT adaptor ones but are you saying pretty much all of them arn't?

From the equipment I have, it's a matter of the sanitary welds not being finished well enough. The back flushed tig weld provides a non porous surface but to get sanitary it needs to be polished smooth and the inexpensive Chinese stainless is being okd to ship when there is still more work to be done. I could further polish the welds to get to a sanitary finish but it just isn't worth the labor.

 

[mattd2]

From the equipment I have, it's a matter of the sanitary welds not being finished well enough. The back flushed tig weld provides a non porous surface but to get sanitary it needs to be polished smooth and the inexpensive Chinese stainless is being okd to ship when there is still more work to be done. I could further polish the welds to get to a sanitary finish but it just isn't worth the labor.

It was my understanding that there was no internal polishing done after welding sanitary tube - as long at there is not excessive reinforcement on the internal side of the weld you are good.

 

[MaxOut]

Very nice system, love the control panel layout. Best of luck sorting it out for the maiden run. Brew a lot of water and dial it in. Building a new system is like learning how to brew again. Take a look at the MaxOut Brewstation I use a siphon tip to disperse recirculated wort and sparge water and it works great. I have it on a short piece of stainless tubing inside silicone that allows me to adjust it to the right depth. For sparge I lift it up and for recirculation I put it right below the surface. No HSA and never clogs with grain bits, I use it on the keggle and the 45 gallon mash tun. I have camlok ports on all my lids and also use them to CIP.

 

[Thirteen]

It was my understanding that there was no internal polishing done after welding sanitary tube - as long at there is not excessive reinforcement on the internal side of the weld you are good.

Fittings, etc. need to be polished per the standard. Field weld pipes do not need to be polished but require a visual inspection to ensure the weld meets criteria for purge gas, penetration, weld profile, porosity, etc.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Sorry to derail your thread somewhat MJ but...
Why are the asian TC not sanitary? I can understand the NPT adaptor ones but are you saying pretty much all of them arn't?

Not even an issue, its nice to discuss this in detail. The reason I say that some of these chinese TC arnt sanitary, is that they are poured and not machined like others. they appear to have a rough surface.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Fittings, etc. need to be polished per the standard. Field weld pipes do not need to be polished but require a visual inspection to ensure the weld meets criteria for purge gas, penetration, weld profile, porosity, etc.

This is pretty hard to achieve unless you are a pro welder, so my rig is 95% sanitary.lol

 

[Bensiff]

Good point with the machining. So here is what I'm talking about, see that ring of rust? Obviously it needs hit with some BKF to clean out but that groove would not be there if it was sanitary.





As far as them being machined. The left part is from glacier tanks, you can see the machining. The right came from stout tanks. Looks cast then polished like you said.

 

[kickflip_mj]

That's exactly what I'm talking about! Thank you for posting pictures.

In the future if like to get a away from these threaded electric ball valves. But in the mean time, I don't want to spend the coin until something cheaper hits the market.

For a few months there I was working on sanitary electric ball valves. I was making progress but the costs seemed unreasonable for a homebrewer. Not only that I spent around $500 on RD that didn't end anywhere. now that I just mentioned this, I think I figured out how to fix a problem. Hmm what if I came up with a solution and just posted it for free so that anyone can create a valve without my added costs?

 

[finsfan]

Good point with the machining. So here is what I'm talking about, see that ring of rust? Obviously it needs hit with some BKF to clean out but that groove would not be there if it was sanitary.


View attachment 172667


As far as them being machined. The left part is from glacier tanks, you can see the machining. The right came from stout tanks. Looks cast then polished like you said.



View attachment 172668

Just a heads up incase you dont like the double picture posting

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/those-you-iphone-454165/


Cant wait to see the whole thing put together. You 2 have some amazing and inspiring builds going on here :rockin:

 

[Bensiff]

That's exactly what I'm talking about! Thank you for posting pictures. In the future if like to get a away from these threaded electric ball valves. But in the mean time, I don't want to spend the coin until something cheaper hits the market. For a few months there I was working on sanitary electric ball valves. I was making progress but the costs seemed unreasonable for a homebrewer. Not only that I spent around $500 on RD that didn't end anywhere. now that I just mentioned this, I think I figured out how to fix a problem. Hmm what if I came up with a solution and just posted it for free so that anyone can create a valve without my added costs?

I haven't seen a close up of the ball valves you are using. Could you have a local welder drill out some end caps and then weld them on? If the ball valves are fps you would need to have them turned smooth too though.

 

[kickflip_mj]

I haven't seen a close up of the ball valves you are using. Could you have a local welder drill out some end caps and then weld them on? If the ball valves are fps you would need to have them turned smooth too though.

Thats exactly what I was thinking about doing. What do you think it will cost to have a machine shop lathe the threads out of a stainless 1/2 ball valve? Hmm maybe I should buy a small lathe and give it a go

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Hmmmm.......I don't THINK, that any of those "tri clover" fittings are cast.

The "polished" vs. "machined" look is probably from the polished one going into a "vibratory" de-burring / polishing machine after manufacturing.

I could be mistaken.............I was once.

 

[Bensiff]

Thats exactly what I was thinking about doing. What do you think it will cost to have a machine shop lathe the threads out of a stainless 1/2 ball valve? Hmm maybe I should buy a small lathe and give it a go

That I couldn't tell you. I do want to find a welder to tack some TC fittings to my counter flow though. If you want to buy a lathe, I'd recommend looking into the HF mini lathe, I've come close to buying one many times. Also http://www.mini-lathe.com is an excellent resource to get started.

 

[cfrazier77]

Thats exactly what I was thinking about doing. What do you think it will cost to have a machine shop lathe the threads out of a stainless 1/2 ball valve? Hmm maybe I should buy a small lathe and give it a go

It has been a long time since I was in a metal shop but I think using a milling machine would be easier than a lathe. But any competent machine shop should be able to knock that out pretty easily.

 

[Thirteen]

Hmmmm.......I don't THINK, that any of those "tri clover" fittings are cast.

The "polished" vs. "machined" look is probably from the polished one going into a "vibratory" de-burring / polishing machine after manufacturing.

I could be mistaken.............I was once.

I guess this makes twice. Still, an enviable record.

 

[kickflip_mj]

That I couldn't tell you. I do want to find a welder to tack some TC fittings to my counter flow though. If you want to buy a lathe, I'd recommend looking into the HF mini lathe, I've come close to buying one many times. Also http://www.mini-lathe.com is an excellent resource to get started.

Just drill out the TC end caps and solder them on like I did, it was super easy!

 

[maierhof]

Thats exactly what I was thinking about doing. What do you think it will cost to have a machine shop lathe the threads out of a stainless 1/2 ball valve? Hmm maybe I should buy a small lathe and give it a go

I recently used a pro welder down here in the bay area (mtn view) and he has a machine shop next door that has worked with him from time to time. The weld was 20 and the machining was 30. I had a TC 2" cap drilled out and had a 1/2" Tee , where i had the shop take out the threads one one side of the T, then put that end into the cap then had it welded (this is the base to my pressure fermenting in sankes btw) The finished product looked like a thing of beauty... I should take a pic and post it. I did feel like I was paying too much for that but you get what you pay for and as an hourly rate it aint that bad...imho

 

[Bensiff]

Just drill out the TC end caps and solder them on like I did, it was super easy!

that might be what I end up doing...I suppose stainless to stainless is no more difficult than soldering stainless to copper. Right now I have some of those screw on TC fittings but the goal is to not have any threads because I'm lazy and hate cleaning them

 

[wncbrewer]

So, just FYI. I figured out the problem with my sparge/ recirc tube sinking into the grain bed. It was too short. I doubled the length and it is currently working like a charm

Sorry for the horrible light in my garage

 

[ptbo_mac]

One day I will have a set up like this.
Thanks for sharing your step by step

 

[kickflip_mj]

Thank you so much for reading and support!

I think a build like this really is all about timing, and just a desire to build something. I constantly have to be building things or I go stir crazy. Im not really sure what Im going to build next, but hopefully I can take a break for at least a few months.

 

[ClaudiusB]

But hopefully I can take a break for at least a few months.

If you manage please let me know how to do it.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

[Bensiff]

Thank you so much for reading and support!



I think a build like this really is all about timing, and just a desire to build something. I constantly have to be building things or I go stir crazy. Im not really sure what Im going to build next, but hopefully I can take a break for at least a few months.

I hear ya as the brewery build was winding down I started thinking bout making cheese. So I asked for a cheese press for my birthday and was told "no more projects." I got it for Christmas though, that's good wifing . I just have to have some project to play with and I've been brewing so long the actual process doesn't make me learn new tricks so it doesn't tickle the project bone.

 

[wncbrewer]

My next project is gonna be converting everything over to sanke and building a keg washer. I'm the same. It's always something

 

[kickflip_mj]

My next project is gonna be converting everything over to sanke and building a keg washer. I'm the same. It's always something

It's a problem isn't it. I'm not sure what I really want to do next. I think I'm just gonna brew and when I run out of room in my freezer I need to get a conical Or make one. Lol

 

[kickflip_mj]

I can't believe I have been building this thing for over a year!

 

[Bensiff]

I can't believe I have been building this thing for over a year!

I bet you remembered that first anniversary better than you did your past girlfriends .

 

[kickflip_mj]

I bet you remembered that first anniversary better than you did your past girlfriends .

Ha isn't that the truth