My insane 25 Gal, 100 Percent Hard Plumbed Tri-Clover, Automated Tippy Build

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Bensiff said:
You are good about posting your builds...I kept promising I would post up my tippy dump copper pearl painted stand to show you and I never got around to it :). Its been working great though, just threw 55lbs of grain at it last Sunday (probably won't do that again).
Click to expand...


I'd love to see it too, it sounds gorgeous!
 
kickflip_mj said:
I had a phone interview last week and I am also having a photoshoot this week with my brewery for a magazine. kinda nervous and excited at the same time.
Click to expand...

That's awesome - any chance you will let us know which magazine?
 
Long story short, I work with EEWeb and one of there managers used to own a brewery in chicago, they found out what I was doing and decided that I would be in their next issue. Funny thing is some of the top searches for engineers is "beer".
 
Truly a great build - thank you for all of the porn/ideas/late night reading!
What is impressive is that you some how got it into an article... nice work indeed.
Congrats!
 
Excellent thread. I read the entire thing last night and actually dreamed about fittings! Good info. Great build. I'd love to eventually pursue such a project, but right now this is waaaaay overkill in comparison to my brewing knowledge. For now I'll just keep reading and brewing. :mug:
 
What a journey, hope your health issues have improved, didn't catch the outcome of all that. Love all 66 pages of this stuff. Link us a video of your brew day if you feel like channeling your inner film maker.
 
Thank you guys for reading my build and being concerning of my health. I am actually better and have got passed my back injury. I didnt have to have spinal surgery and I am wakeboarding daily again. Life is good.

The brewery looks amazing (polished it for a shoot) but now I am working on my reverse osmoses build so that I can have decent water. Sadly I havnt brewed in 2 months after I dumped 45 gallons because the water is so bad.
 
Thanks bensiff, it's like a 2 page read. Nothing crazy


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Good stuff, you will have to make a video of it in action for youtube
 
Kickflip: epic and I mean *EPIC* setup. it's rather inspirational. I'm at the "thinking it out" stage for my build and have a couple questions.

1 - how did you use that freescale pressure sensor? The article mentions they're mounted on the pumps?
2 - how do you deal with liquid loss due to your piping?
3 - how does your CIP cycle work?

Cheers!
 
aangel said:
Kickflip: epic and I mean *EPIC* setup. it's rather inspirational. I'm at the "thinking it out" stage for my build and have a couple questions.

1 - how did you use that freescale pressure sensor? The article mentions they're mounted on the pumps?
2 - how do you deal with liquid loss due to your piping?
3 - how does your CIP cycle work?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thank you!

1. The pressure sensors idea was invented through brewtroller, you an see it here.https://www.oscsys.com/projects/brewtroller/system-design/volume-measurement if you'd like to go down this road id recommend picking up a used brewtroller, since they just went out of business.

2. Sadly I have to overshoot my batch sizes a bit to make up for the loss. But when you are talking 15-22 gallon bathes who really cares if you lose a gallon. But when I was doing 5 gallon batches, it was pretty sad when you lost a gallon.

My CIP isnt a full cycle. I usually heat the HLT with water and PBW, while I am in the chilling phase of BK. then move circulate that liquid around the different sections of piping and tanks, scrubbing the tanks with a sponge (really easy) then dump it out the bottom. Then I open up all the water in ports and flush the system through the two exit ports.
 
kickflip_mj said:
I also need a drop in hop screen... Basically I shot for 15 gallons and ended up with 5 inline clogs... ( I threw whole hops in like an idiot) then ended up with 12 gallons after taking the plumbing apart so many times.
Click to expand...
Where was it clogging ? What size is the hard plumbing line ?

Was it plugging in the line or in the valves ?

Was it plugging a section of line where there was no flow, ie a valve was closed and then when you open the valve to allow flow in that branch, its packed ?
 
kickflip_mj said:
Honestly if I where to do it again is probably just skip the touchscreen feature. It's just more stuff that can go wrong
Click to expand...
I don't understand. If you skipped the touchscreen, how would you run it ?

What kind of touchscreen did you get and why is it "going wrong" ?

If you were going to build your system again, what would you do differently ?

Thanks for sharing your build !
 
A quick word about ball valves.

When ball valves are closed, they trap liquid in the port part of the ball. Ball valves are notoriously hard to sanitize because of this. Breweries use butterfly valves for anything that needs to be sanitary, not ball valves.

The best way to sanitize a ball valve is to run hot liquid through it when its set somewhere between open and closed. That is the only position where fluid gets everywhere in the valve. They should be left in this position when not in use. If you close the valve, any remaining liquid gets trapped in the port cavity.

I am very leery of having any sort of valve touched chilled wort, but especially ball valves.
 
brewman ! said:
I don't understand. If you skipped the touchscreen, how would you run it ?

What kind of touchscreen did you get and why is it "going wrong" ?

If you were going to build your system again, what would you do differently ?

Thanks for sharing your build !
Click to expand...

I think after i built my system there are a few things i would change. Valves would have to be butterfly or diaphragm. Currently I fitted each valve with a drain hole in the bottom, so i can flush the valve with cleaner and water after each brew. works nicely.

Secondly the touch screen is ran by a Raspberry Pi connected to the web. My main issue is connectivity at the moment. but I will change it to more industrial board in a few months. The biggest issue I mat be having is how shotty my internet can be. I run it manual with basic PID functions at the moment. Hopefully I get my permanent home soon and can really integrate this a lot better. Sorry I am tired as hell, ill revisit this tomorrow and dive into more detail.
 
kickflip_mj said:
Secondly the touch screen is ran by a Raspberry Pi connected to the web. My main issue is connectivity at the moment. but I will change it to more industrial board in a few months. The biggest issue I mat be having is how shotty my internet can be. I run it manual with basic PID functions at the moment.
Click to expand...

I'm looking to do something similar to what you have, control wise.

I don't understand something. You are running the BrewTroller remotely, right ? The BrewTroller is acting as the server ? The RPi + touchscreen is a simple web browsing client ?

How does the Internet connection figure into this ? Does the BrewTroller need an Internet connection ?

What code did you have to write to make this work ? I thought the BrewTroller came ready to run as the server ?

I like the way your control panel looks (and could operate). What brand and model (size) is the touchscreen and how do you like the touchscreen itself ? Do you find yourself wanting a mouse and keyboard in addition to the touchscreen ?

Thanks !
 
brewman ! said:
I'm looking to do something similar to what you have, control wise.

I don't understand something. You are running the BrewTroller remotely, right ? The BrewTroller is acting as the server ? The RPi + touchscreen is a simple web browsing client ?

How does the Internet connection figure into this ? Does the BrewTroller need an Internet connection ?

What code did you have to write to make this work ? I thought the BrewTroller came ready to run as the server ?

I like the way your control panel looks (and could operate). What brand and model (size) is the touchscreen and how do you like the touchscreen itself ? Do you find yourself wanting a mouse and keyboard in addition to the touchscreen ?

Thanks !
Click to expand...

The internet is needed to connect the brewtroller to the server www.brewtroller.com/#webapp. It was also needed so I can connect the RPI to the server, so i can view the webapp live. (unless I hooked up everything wrong) I am basically running the RPI as a small computer on my dash. its nothing crazy.

If you were to ask me today if I use the screen I would probably tell you no. I spend most of the time working during brew days, and monitor my system using my laptop/ cellphone. I can also see whats going on using the mini brewtroller lcd screen.

I picked up this, but it is discontinued now.

http://www.chalk-elec.com/?page_id=...rryPi-REFURBISHED/p/14647624/category=3094861

You would have some good luck purchasing it from ADAfruit.com. Using the touch scree isnt difficult, you do need a mouse and keyboard to set up the RPI though. I wouldnt go out of my way and buy one until you try it yourself.

Have you ever wired this kind of project before?
 
kickflip_mj said:
The internet is needed to connect the brewtroller to the server www.brewtroller.com/#webapp.
Click to expand...

I'm still confused. Do you need an Internet connection or an Ethernet connection ? One is a connection to the world, the other could be a LAN.

It was also needed so I can connect the RPI to the server, so i can view the webapp live.
Click to expand...
This just needs a LAN, right ? Or am I missing something ? And if its a LAN, couldn't you hard wire it (Ethernet cables + switch + router ?) if you are having communication issues ?

I am basically running the RPI as a small computer on my dash. its nothing crazy.
Click to expand...
By small computer, you mean the RPi communicates with the BrewTroller via web pages, so you run the brewing session in a browser on the RPi ?

If you were to ask me today if I use the screen I would probably tell you no. I spend most of the time working during brew days, and monitor my system using my laptop/ cellphone.
Click to expand...
OK. But if you were spending your brewday in the brewery and didn't want a laptop taking up bench space, how would you like the touchscreen ?

I can also see whats going on using the mini brewtroller lcd screen.
Click to expand...
Where is it in/on your system ? Is there any need to have the brewtroller lcd if you've got a remote session going ?

Using the touch scree isnt difficult, you do need a mouse and keyboard to set up the RPI though. I wouldnt go out of my way and buy one until you try it yourself.
Click to expand...
I've got a laptop and a tablet with a touch screen, I've done quite a few Linux projects and several RPi projects. I'm basically wondering if you like using the touchscreen as a brewstand control interface or if your fingers smudge it up or if the screen should be mounted somewhere else or something that I haven't thought of yet that would make me not want to do it ???

Have you ever wired this kind of project before?
Click to expand...
Yes, many times.

I'm still not clear what programming you had to do to make this work. Is the BrewTroller software basically turnkey or did you have to hack a bunch of code ?

Thanks for discussing this with me.
 
brewman ! said:
That looks like a really nice touchscreen for a decent price. Half the problem with doing a touchscreen is finding a good one at a decent price. The suppliers are still catching up and maturing to what the market wants.
Click to expand...

Why not just pick up a used android tablet and employ it as a client? $100 is about par for the course there.
 
brewman ! said:
I'm still confused. Do you need an Internet connection or an Ethernet connection ? One is a connection to the world, the other could be a LAN.

This just needs a LAN, right ? Or am I missing something ? And if its a LAN, couldn't you hard wire it (Ethernet cables + switch + router ?) if you are having communication issues ?

By small computer, you mean the RPi communicates with the BrewTroller via web pages, so you run the brewing session in a browser on the RPi ?
Click to expand...

What I did was purchase a wifi module, splitter and connected the RPI to the splitter and the brewtroller to the splitter via ethernet ports. I have a LAN set up to interpret what the brewtroller is doing and with the RPI and my computer I can access it through a web browser. (i hope I explained that properly)

brewman ! said:
OK. But if you were spending your brewday in the brewery and didn't want a laptop taking up bench space, how would you like the touchscreen ?
Click to expand...

I would love the touchscreen, at the moment it pisses me off because the RPI likes to randomly cache internet and lock up, or just for some reason not be able to connect to the web. Like I said, a better module might work.

brewman ! said:
Where is it in/on your system ? Is there any need to have the brewtroller lcd if you've got a remote session going ?
Click to expand...

I like to have both, sometimes the webapp locks up with my crummy internet, and its nice to know the brewtroller runs properly.

brewman ! said:
I've got a laptop and a tablet with a touch screen, I've done quite a few Linux projects and several RPi projects. I'm basically wondering if you like using the touchscreen as a brewstand control interface or if your fingers smudge it up or if the screen should be mounted somewhere else or something that I haven't thought of yet that would make me not want to do it ???
Click to expand...

Well maybe you can help me get mine running more smoothly:)

brewman ! said:
Yes, many times.

I'm still not clear what programming you had to do to make this work. Is the BrewTroller software basically turnkey or did you have to hack a bunch of code ?
Click to expand...

Its pretty turnkey, Just some general set up for your system. All I had to do was set valve profiles and label some processes. Its pretty well spelled out. You can download the software and take a look at it on there website.

brewman ! said:
Thanks for discussing this with me.
Click to expand...

anytime, I have no problem answering your questions.
 
aangel said:
Why not just pick up a used android tablet and employ it as a client? $100 is about par for the course there.
Click to expand...

I've got one already. It would work, but mine (Asus Infinity) is a bit laggy running a browser (Firefox) and the screen is a bit small.

An RPi running Linux with a touchscreen is much, much more versatile. Its way easier for me to develop custom apps on Linux than it is on Android. Though it isn't impossible on the later.
 
kickflip_mj: I'm still confused. Am I being obnoxious asking these questions ?

I've been running Linux for a long time and its a rock solid OS. I'm pretty sure I could help you get your system running well and answering some of my questions might be the first step in figuring out what is wrong. I have an ulterior motive... I'd like to implement a similar sort of system. I could learn a lot by helping you getting your system running right.

But I don't want to wreck your thread.

I await your direction.
 
brewman ! said:
kickflip_mj: I'm still confused. Am I being obnoxious asking these questions ?

I've been running Linux for a long time and its a rock solid OS. I'm pretty sure I could help you get your system running well and answering some of my questions might be the first step in figuring out what is wrong. I have an ulterior motive... I'd like to implement a similar sort of system. I could learn a lot by helping you getting your system running right.

But I don't want to wreck your thread.

I await your direction.
Click to expand...

No not at all, this is what we live for:)

Ill try to answer your questions as best as possible.

Lets mess around with this stuff, its fun for me, and dont worry about the thread, keep on adding.
 
kickflip_mj said:
What I did was purchase a wifi module, splitter and connected the RPI to the splitter and the brewtroller to the splitter via ethernet ports. I have a LAN set up to interpret what the brewtroller is doing and with the RPI and my computer I can access it through a web browser. (i hope I explained that properly)
Click to expand...

OK, lets start with some basics just to make sure I'm not missing anything.

What is a wifi module ?

What is a splitter ?

When you mean you have a LAN set up, what are you referring to ? Is there a router ? Is the LAN connected to the Internet ? Is some of it wireless or is it all wired ?

I would love the touchscreen, at the moment it pisses me off because the RPI likes to randomly cache internet and lock up, or just for some reason not be able to connect to the web. Like I said, a better module might work.
Click to expand...

When you say internet, do you mean Internet or do you mean the local network ? Does the RPi or the BrewTroller need access to the Internet at all when its running ?

I like to have both, sometimes the webapp locks up with my crummy internet, and its nice to know the brewtroller runs properly.
Click to expand...

Again, is the Internet locking up or is your local network locking up ?

What is the IP address of the BrewTroller ? How is it set ? (Statically or dynamically )

What happens if you open a terminal on the RPi when the lockup occurs and do a "ping 192.168.1.xxx" to try to reach the BrewTroller ?

Its pretty turnkey, Just some general set up for your system. All I had to do was set valve profiles and label some processes. Its pretty well spelled out. You can download the software and take a look at it on there website.
Click to expand...
So there was no programming then ? You didn't have to make any changes to the source code and recompile anything ? Basically you had to configure things ?
 
brewman ! said:
OK, lets start with some basics just to make sure I'm not missing anything.

What is a wifi module ?

What is a splitter ?

When you mean you have a LAN set up, what are you referring to ? Is there a router ? Is the LAN connected to the Internet ? Is some of it wireless or is it all wired ?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I purchased this Wifi Adapter

http://www.netgear.com/home/products/connected-entertainment/gaming-home-theater/WNCE2001.aspx

and connected the brewtroller and RPI into this ethernet swich.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002EQCW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Currently I have a 100ft Ethernet cord connected from my home router to the ethernet switch in my control panel. (I fall out of range in my garage, for the Wifi adapter)

brewman ! said:
When you say internet, do you mean Internet or do you mean the local network ? Does the RPi or the BrewTroller need access to the Internet at all when its running ?
Click to expand...

Ok first off im irritated with the new owner, he is missing so much documentation. So when you hook up the brewtroller LAN, you need to discover it, via some sort of Ethernet discoverer, I used

https://code.google.com/p/brewtroll...ame=Microchip Ethernet Discoverer.exe&can=1&q

found it and connected the Brewtroller to my LAN, so when I use the Webapp I can connect using the IP I associated with the Brewtroller. (im going to email the new owner and ask for him to add more docs)

Now just like my computer, I open up the webapp on a browser on my RPI and enter the IP to the webapp and access the brewtroller that way.

brewman ! said:
Again, is the Internet locking up or is your local network locking up ?
Click to expand...

I dont mean "lock up". I have comcast and I lose service sometimes (more than I would like)

brewman ! said:
What is the IP address of the BrewTroller ? How is it set ? (Statically or dynamically )
Click to expand...

Its a static IP,

I had to search the web to find this:
"You have to execute the PC's tftp command within 4 sec of resetting the module. The modules default IP is 192.168.97.60 so you have to configure your PC with an IP of 192.168.97.xxx

The command window syntax (Windows) is:
tftp 192.168.97.60 PUT BTnicEmb.hex

Execute this from the Directory where the hex file is saved."

brewman ! said:
What happens if you open a terminal on the RPi when the lockup occurs and do a "ping 192.168.1.xxx" to try to reach the BrewTroller ?
Click to expand...

The main issue why I stopped using the RPI in the meantime is it was to finicky, half the time I couldnt even open a browser window.

brewman ! said:
So there was no programming then ? You didn't have to make any changes to the source code and recompile anything ? Basically you had to configure things ?
Click to expand...

No not much physical programming is needed (not to say you cant, you do have to make some changes to the source code, and its spelled out nicely in notes in the code. Then you upload the code to the brewtroller via USB port, then you do the set up (valve profiles etc) using the encoder or webapp.

Have you looked at the code, or the manual yet? I know it has a TON of missing docs and loopholes. it always has.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
kickflip_mj said:
Sorry, I purchased this Wifi Adapter

http://www.netgear.com/home/products/connected-entertainment/gaming-home-theater/WNCE2001.aspx

and connected the brewtroller and RPI into this ethernet swich.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002EQCW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Currently I have a 100ft Ethernet cord connected from my home router to the ethernet switch in my control panel. (I fall out of range in my garage, for the Wifi adapter)
Click to expand...

Lets start here. Can you draw me a picture or explain very clearly how you have your network set up ?

- the router is in the house.
- the BrewTroller is hard wired into the switch.
- the RPi is hard wired into the switch
- where is the Wifi adapter being used ????

What is the IP address of your router ?

Please run ping <router address> for 20 seconds and tell me what comes back. Or paste it into a reply to this thread. You'll need to "control C" it stop it.

if that works, then ping the BrewTroller for 20 seconds and tell me what comes back.

Is the RPi set up to use a dynamically allocated IP ? Is the BrewTroller resetting at all during the runs ? How would you know if it did ?

Does the manual say anything about opening ports in the firewall on the client ? (RPi)

What browser are you using on the RPi ?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
brewman ! said:
Lets start here. Can you draw me a picture or explain very clearly how you have your network set up ?

- the router is in the house.
- the BrewTroller is hard wired into the switch.
- the RPi is hard wired into the switch
- where is the Wifi adapter being used ????

What is the IP address of your router ?

Please run ping <router address> for 20 seconds and tell me what comes back. Or paste it into a reply to this thread. You'll need to "control C" it stop it.

if that works, then ping the BrewTroller for 20 seconds and tell me what comes back.

Is the RPi set up to use a dynamically allocated IP ? Is the BrewTroller resetting at all during the runs ? How would you know if it did ?

Does the manual say anything about opening ports in the firewall on the client ? (RPi)

What browser are you using on the RPi ?
Click to expand...

wiredia_zps79ub2jut.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

If the wifi adapter was in range, i wouldnt have to use the 100ft cord. At the moment the adapter is unplugged.

My router address is IPV4 10.0.0.6
the brewtroller is IPV4 10.0.03

I did not do any real setting up of the RPI to the IP. I should have, but i was just running Madori internet browser, plugging in the IPV4 10.0.0.3 into the browser.

The brewtroller freezes on occasion now, i can tell because the LCD screen stops working and the temp stops on the webapp.

I did have to open up the firewall for the brewtroller, but that was on my old computer. the webapp connects automatically, unlike the live version.
 
kickflip_mj said:
wiredia_zps79ub2jut.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
Click to expand...

Ethernet adapters are not to be connected to switches ! They go to the Ethernet port of a computer.

Furthermore, without the wireless adapter you should have a perfect Internet connection through the Comcast device. ping www.google.com should run perfectly, zero packet loss, stable trip times.

Please run ping www.google.com and post the results here.
 
From my linux computer.

$ ping www.google.com
PING www.google.com (173.194.33.176) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from sea09s18-in-f16.1e100.net (173.194.33.176): icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=39.6 ms
64 bytes from sea09s18-in-f16.1e100.net (173.194.33.176): icmp_seq=2 ttl=56 time=37.5 ms
64 bytes from sea09s18-in-f16.1e100.net (173.194.33.176): icmp_seq=3 ttl=56 time=37.1 ms
64 bytes from sea09s18-in-f16.1e100.net (173.194.33.176): icmp_seq=4 ttl=56 time=37.0 ms
64 bytes from sea09s18-in-f16.1e100.net (173.194.33.176): icmp_seq=5 ttl=57 time=37.8 ms
64 bytes from sea09s18-in-f16.1e100.net (173.194.33.176): icmp_seq=6 ttl=56 time=53.6 ms
64 bytes from sea09s18-in-f16.1e100.net (173.194.33.176): icmp_seq=7 ttl=57 time=34.9 ms
64 bytes from sea09s18-in-f16.1e100.net (173.194.33.176): icmp_seq=8 ttl=57 time=34.5 ms
64 bytes from sea09s18-in-f16.1e100.net (173.194.33.176): icmp_seq=9 ttl=56 time=33.3 ms
64 bytes from sea09s18-in-f16.1e100.net (173.194.33.176): icmp_seq=10 ttl=57 time=63.2 ms
^C
--- www.google.com ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9012ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 33.357/40.890/63.243/9.201 ms
 

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