My first recipe. critiques please

[mattnaik]

So with the help of some people over in another forum, I put together this recipe. I'm going for an IIPA Great Lakes Alchemy Hour clone or something close to it. I plan on brewing it this weekend.

2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
1 lbs Honey Malt (25.0 SRM)
3 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM)
1.50 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz Mosaic [11.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.50 oz Mosaic [11.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
5 lbs Light Dry Extract [Boil for 3 min](8.0 SRM)
2 lbs Sugar, Table (Sucrose) [Boil for 3 min](1.0 SRM)
1.0 pkg London Ale Yeast (Wyeast Labs #1028)
3.00 oz Mosaic [11.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.091
Est Final Gravity: 1.020
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.3 %
Bitterness: 81.7 IBUs
Est Color: 15.7 SRM

I will be doing a 2 step starter for this since its a big beer.

I originally had this as an all DME recipe but was told I would end up with a FG of above 1.030 so it was suggested to add some table sugar to help get the FG down. I want this to be a bit sweeter so my biggest concern is I get a higher attenuation than expected and end up with a dry and overly alcoholic beer. Do you think I have too much table sugar? BeerSmith2 actually estimated my FG to be at like 1.013 and a 10.4% ABV which is not what I'm looking for. The London Ale yeast has an apparent attenuation of 73-77%.

Thoughts or criticisms?

 

[Yooper]

I've never had that beer so I can't say what the recipe would be.

But that grainbill, with 2 pounds of crystal malt and 1 pound of honey malt looks very sweet. I think that would hurt my teeth!

It's true that using sugar instead of malt will help thin the body and dry out the beer a bit, but going with 8 pounds of extract, 3 pounds of sweet malts, and 2 pounds of sugar means your beer is only about 61% base malt, if my math is right.

 

[mattnaik]

Ultimately, I want the beer to taste good. Overly sweet is something I would like to avoid as well. Tasting like the beer it's modeled after is secondary

What do you think about removing 1lb of the crystal?

And what about my expectations of the FG? Do you think this will be closer to BeerSmith's estimation (1.013) or closer to my target (1.020)?

 

[boydster]

I've never had that beer, either, but based on your post I would make a couple changes. First - the honey malt is something you should slowly get acquainted with, a little bit goes a long way. The first time you use that malt, do it in a smaller beer with a very small amount (like 4 oz or less). I'd drop it entirely from this batch if it were me.

Second - the DME has unfermentable sugars in it already, and adding 2lbs of C40 is going to add a ton more unfermentable sugars on top of that. If you are using the crystal mostly to hit a certain color, consider using a smaller amount (less than 1lb) of a darker crystal like C60, and maybe even an ounce of 120 or chocolate if you need to get a deeper color still.

My favorite extract IIPA that I have made has the following grain/sugar bill:
10 lbs Briess Golden Light DME (3 during boil, 7 at flameout)
12 oz turbinado sugar (flameout)
8 oz C40 steeped at 150 for 30 minutes

That went from 1.085 down to 1.017, and the color was 8.3 SRM.

 

[mattnaik]

Based on suggestions this is the new recipe:

1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
8.0 oz Honey Malt
3 lbs Light Dry Extract
1.40 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz Mosaic [11.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.50 oz Mosaic [11.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min
6 lbs Light Dry Extract [Boil for 3 min]
1 lbs Sugar, Table (Sucrose) [Boil for 3 min]
1.0 pkg London Ale Yeast (Wyeast Labs #1028)
3.00 oz Mosaic [11.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days

I cut the amount of steeped grains in half. I swapped out 1lb of table sugar for 1lb of DME to prevent it from getting too dry. Also adjusted the 60min hop amount to dial-in IBUs to 80.

 

[boydster]

OK I just looked up the beer online here and it has the following for useful info:

OG: 22*P, or 1.092
ABV: 9.4%
IBU: 80
Based on the OG, your FG target should be 1.019

Malt: 2-row, C45, Honey Malt
Hops: Mosaic, Nugget, Cascade

I think you are close with your recipe. It says Nugget is in there for flavor and aroma, so I'd probably use some of that at 15 or 20 minutes (swap with the Cascade, maybe) and some in the dry hop. Cascade it says is in there for its citrusy aroma - probably use some of that in the dry hop, as well (dry hop with one once of each, instead of 3oz of Mosaic?).

If I were brewing this, I'd do this:

9 lbs Light DME (3 at beginning, 6 at flameout)
1 lb sugar at flameout
12 oz C40, steeped
4 oz Honey Malt, steeped

1 oz Nugget @ 60
.5 oz Nugget @ 15
.5 oz Mosaic @ 15
.5 oz Mosaic @ 0
1 oz Cascade @ 0
Dry hop with 1 oz each of Nugget, Cascade, and Mosaic

 

[mattnaik]

Moving half an ounce of Nugget to 15 minutes lowers the IBU to around 62.

 

[boydster]

Moving half an ounce of Nugget to 15 minutes lowers the IBU to around 62.

The way I posted it, I get 79.4 tinseth. Full ounce of Nugget @ 60, more @ 15, more in dry hop

In the end, it's your beer, so brew it however you like. I added it to my list of upcoming brews to try with the recipe I put on post #6.

 

[mattnaik]

This kinda brings up another problem I've been having with BeerSmith. My IBU's never seem to match anyone else's. I'm not really sure what im doing wrong. I put your recipe into BeerSmith and I come up with 65.2 Tinseth.

Any idea what im doing wrong?

 

[boydster]

I use BrewTarget, so I'm unfamiliar with Beersmith, but my first guess is to check to see if you have the late addition entered as such, because if the software thinks it is all going in at the beginning that will effect the hop usage calculation. Other than that, I'm not sure. Maybe someone else that uses BS can help?

 

[mattnaik]

Yeah definitely had those extract additions as flameout additions. I'll post another thread hoping to nail this down. Thanks for all the advice!

 

[mattnaik]

The more I mess with it, the more I think its the pre-boil volume. I have mine set as a partial boil. Was yours a full boil?

 

[boydster]

Didn't even think of that! Mine is set up for my system, and I do a 4 gallon boil so that is probably exactly it. Good find

 

[Yooper]

This kinda brings up another problem I've been having with BeerSmith. My IBU's never seem to match anyone else's. I'm not really sure what im doing wrong. I put your recipe into BeerSmith and I come up with 65.2 Tinseth.

Any idea what im doing wrong?

The more I mess with it, the more I think its the pre-boil volume. I have mine set as a partial boil. Was yours a full boil?

That's what it is! If you're only boiling less than half of the wort and topping up with water, the IBUs will be much lower.

It's best thought of this way- say you have 2 gallons of 85 IBU wort, and then top it off with water. Then you're adding 3 gallons of 0 IBU wort, so you're reducing the IBUs to less than half of what the wort held. (34 IBUs)

Partial boils are generally fine but it's impossible to make a high IBU beer like an IIPA with a 2.5 gallon boil and have the IBUs come out right.

If you can boil more wort than 2.3 gallons, that would be very helpful.

 

[mattnaik]

Yeah that was set to auto-calc pre-boil volume accidentally. I have a 5gal kettle so I can safely do a 3gal boil. Upgrading to full boils is my next major upgrade. kettle, burner, and immersion chiller are a bit of an investment. Hopefully sooner than later