My first NEIPA - yeast info needed

[adam88]

I changed the ',' to '.'. I think it necessary because some fields turned into orange in case of data where the comment said "enter zero if this value is not known". But i also have problem, because e.g. when i have to enter ph, it not accept 7.5 (it convert this into some kind of decimal number like: 43278,0 and i can not change the field format).

The bicarbonate: The Bru'n water says: 1 degree of german hardness equals to 17.85 CaCO3 in the introductions tab (i've found the similar info on the internet when i looked for calculators). So 22 degree of german hardness = 392CaCO3, i wrote this value into the reported alkalinity as CaCO3 field which counted me the bicarbonate i wrote into that field.

After changing ',' to '.':

 

[Jag75]

You might want to start a thread in science section . Post your water test results there. There are some very knowledgable people in there that can break it down to you. I'm a rookie at this water profile stuff . Good luck. Keep us informed

 

[IslandLizard]

I changed the ',' to '.'. I think it necessary because some fields turned into orange in case of data where the comment said "enter zero if this value is not known". But i also have problem, because e.g. when i have to enter ph, it not accept 7.5 (it convert this into some kind of decimal number like: 43278,0 and i can not change the field format).

The bicarbonate: The Bru'n water says: 1 degree of german hardness equals to 17.85 CaCO3 in the introductions tab (i've found the similar info on the internet when i looked for calculators). So 22 degree of german hardness = 392CaCO3, i wrote this value into the reported alkalinity as CaCO3 field which counted me the bicarbonate i wrote into that field.

After changing ',' to '.':...

I've seen "errors" like that in Bru'n Water when a value is missing or wonky. It's usually caused by "solver" formulas that got out of hand, they need to get reset. Please fill in the correct values, using the decimal dot, on a fresh copy of the program. That should give us a more useful overview.

By the way, I found a source for the meaning of the "Nk" value, for those who were wondering:

Water hardness
The pleasure value of potable water and efficiency of the water used for washing are determined in part by the hardness of water, that is, its CaO (calcium oxide) mg/litre ratio. Water hardness figures indicate that in the region of the capital the water is mostly of medium hardness. It is important to know that the harder the water, the more pleasant flavourit has, but the lesser it is suitable for washing, and our washing machine does not like hard water. In most of the cases – e.g. on the labels of the detergents – water hardness is indicated in terms of the German standard of hardness (nk)*.

• Very soft water: under 40 CaO mg/litre (4 nk)
• Soft water: between 40-80 CaO mg/litre (4-8 nk)
• Medium-hard water: between 80-180 CaO mg/litre (8-18 nk)
• Hard water: between 180-300 CaO mg/litre (18-30 nk)
• Very hard water: above 300 CaO mg/litre (30 nk)

In the service area of our Company, the average hardness of potable water is 141 CaO mg/l.

*The German standard for hardness (nk) is one tenth of the CaO mg/litre, so for 141 CaO mg/litre, for example, this value is 14.1 nk (2016).​

Pass this information on to the Brew Science forum when posting your question there, together with screenshots of the new Bru'n Water calculations.

The originators/builders of Bru'n Water are on the Brew Science forum, they can help you with any questions on the matter.

Remember, I mentioned the missing Anions from your water report? Well we found those, and they are indeed in the alkalinity. You have fairly hard water which may not be all that suitable for brewing, as is, so some tweaking is definitely needed.

 

[wepeeler]

I'ved used 1318 well over 10x, and it's been amazing every time. Like other have stated, make a starter. There is never a reason not too. Start with healthy yeast always. Ferment anywhere from 62-72, and you'll be fine. Usually I'm right around 65-68. I've never had any diacetyl present.

 

[adam88]

Dear All!
Brewing is done. If i have questions other than this thread shall i delete this thread somehow? Or just open a new one?

 

[ProblemChild]

just post again right here. I would love to see how it turns out. by posting here, everyone that has participated will get a little flag popping up that there has been an update

 

[IslandLizard]

Dear All!
Brewing is done. If i have questions other than this thread shall i delete this thread somehow? Or just open a new one?

We don't delete threads, at least not routinely. All information remains for posterity and may help others.

If you have updates or more questions on this topic or anything else that has been discussed here, please add them to this thread.
We ARE curious how well your beer is faring and how it turns out in the end.

If you have a new, unrelated topic, by all means start a new thread for it.

 

[adam88]

Okay, then i will post here, and if its judged as unrelated, i will move

So i delayed the brewing to get water treatment equipment. I tried to follow this recipe: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/295897/neipa-hoppy-juicy-braumeister-20l. I also made a starter (from whyeast 1318 with magnetic stirrer). The method was the mentioned biab method. I disinfected everything regulary with starsan. (even my hand too if i touched something undisinfected.) Really everything.
Mash ph was 5.47, which should result in 5.2 at step boiling. I've started boiling 25L of wort at gravity 1.066. At the end i received 20L of wort at gravity 1.070. Which is higher than expected. (the recipes says 1.060). So now, i'm stressed if my yeast could ferment it the proper way :S:S
I'm also worrying about my wort: it seems dark for me. (I used pale ale malt). And cloudy. Cloudy as hell :S (Maybe i made a mistake with hotbreak? :S) I've tried to filter it with a coffe filter- of course used starsan on it - (not the paper type but the plastic, it could filter some of the things but i'm not sure. It not appeared to hop-parts ).
The yeast working (much of bubbles in my "clucking"), fermentation going at 21c temp.
I've prepared co2 for dry hopping.
Should i worry? :S

 

[IslandLizard]

Should i worry? :S

No, RDWHAHB!

Congrats on your first NEIPA!
Everything will sink to the bottom of the fermenter when the fermentation is over. Your beer will get clearer (less cloudy) during that process. Since it's a NEIPA, it may never become crystal clear, though, it's a signature of the style.

How long has it been actively fermenting (bubbling)?

What do you mean with "I've prepared co2 for dry hopping."

 

[adam88]

Tonight is the first 24hours.
Prepared co2: I mean (i've read and was told to me) that during dry hopping, i have to add co2 to the bucket to supersede the entering oxygen. And when i'll bottling the beer (unfortunately i dont have keg yet) i have to flush the bottle with co2 to suersede oxygen.

 

[IslandLizard]

Tonight is the first 24hours.
Prepared co2: I mean (i've read and was told to me) that during dry hopping, i have to add co2 to the bucket to supersede the entering oxygen. And when i'll bottling the beer (unfortunately i dont have keg yet) i have to flush the bottle with co2 to suersede oxygen.

OK, that's good, being prepared to flush the headspace during or after tinkering with dry hops.

Are you going to add them after most fermentation is over? Or planning to do it earlier?

Are you going to add Amarillo first and Citra and Galaxy a few days later? Or all at once?

Leaving them for 5 days? Then cold crash for a few days to drop everything out?

 

[adam88]

OK, that's good, being prepared to flush the headspace during or after tinkering with dry hops.

Are you going to add them after most fermentation is over? Or planning to do it earlier?

Are you going to add Amarillo first and Citra and Galaxy a few days later? Or all at once?

Leaving them for 5 days? Then cold crash for a few days to drop everything out?

a.) I've read that i have to add dry hops when most fermentation is over (2-3 days). Its ok?
b.) I thought i just have to add them all at once, for 5 days? (i found this info on the net). Shall i add Amarillo first, then Citra and Galaxy? How many days after Amarillo?
b/2.) Can i use a little bag for dry hopping? Its a dense fabric bag.
b/3.) How to dry hopping? Just remove the top of the bucket, throw in the dry hops, put back the top, blow in some co2, put back the clucking? (how many co2?)
c.) I've read everywhere that in case of NEIPA do NOT cold crash. You've just made me uncertain :S

 

[Jag75]

There is so many ways to skin a cat. I've picked up different ways and put them together . On a NEIPA I dry hopped on day 2 of fermentation. During fermentation you dont have to worry about purging with co2. This is what I've read about bio transformation or whatever it's called.

When you dry hop after fermentation you have to be wary of o2. I had to use a paint strainer bag on my 2nd dry hop because my muslin bag wasnt big enough. The strainer bag worked great. I put in 2 shot glasses (sanatized) in the bag to weigh it down. That was for 4 days I think. So much expansion that it floated to the top! .
I just opened the top of the lid dropped it in then purged it with co2 for about 20 sec.

As for cold crashing , I have never cold crashed . The beer that I have done turns out nice and clear , .never murky . Maybe the whirfloc . Just find what works for you and go for it .

 

[adam88]

Today (at 17:00) i've checked the wort. Its 1.018 now (46 hours after yeast was pured into the wort) (So OG: 1.070, this afternoon: 1.018).
What do you think, can my yeast ferment it to 1.012 or maybe better 1.010?
I've also put the first amount of dry hop into the fermentor. I divided my amount of hops into 2 equal parts. I've used 130g of hop during brewing, i put 85g of hops today, and i will put the rest 85g few days later. So at all 100g Galaxy, 100g Amarillo, 100g Citra.
I've also tasted it in the measurement cylinder. It seemed cloudy (very very cloudy XD) but i can only taste a bittter taste (bitter of hops) and yeast (not bad taste, the same when i'm cooking bread or some home made pasta. So the original yeast taste). Should i taste the juicy-fruity flavors now?

P.s. the yeast was at the top of the wort it created a high foam layer. Is it ok?

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

Tonight is the first 24hours.
Prepared co2: I mean (i've read and was told to me) that during dry hopping, i have to add co2 to the bucket to supersede the entering oxygen. And when i'll bottling the beer (unfortunately i dont have keg yet) i have to flush the bottle with co2 to suersede oxygen.

Just add a little sugar when you dry hop the yeast will make C02 for you and push the oxygen out

 

[Jag75]

Today (at 17:00) i've checked the wort. Its 1.018 now (46 hours after yeast was pured into the wort) (So OG: 1.070, this afternoon: 1.018).
What do you think, can my yeast ferment it to 1.012 or maybe better 1.010?
I've also put the first amount of dry hop into the fermentor. I divided my amount of hops into 2 equal parts. I've used 130g of hop during brewing, i put 85g of hops today, and i will put the rest 85g few days later. So at all 100g Galaxy, 100g Amarillo, 100g Citra.
I've also tasted it in the measurement cylinder. It seemed cloudy (very very cloudy XD) but i can only taste a bittter taste (bitter of hops) and yeast (not bad taste, the same when i'm cooking bread or some home made pasta. So the original yeast taste). Should i taste the juicy-fruity flavors now?

P.s. the yeast was at the top of the wort it created a high foam layer. Is it ok?

Foam layer is normal . It's called krausen . Not sure what your beer will get down to point wise. Personally I always leave my beer in the fermenter for 3 weeks. Only way to know your beer is done is check your gravity . They say if it stays the same for a few days your good.

 

[IslandLizard]

b/2.) Can i use a little bag for dry hopping? Its a dense fabric bag.

Definitely NOT!

Even fairly large, roomy, weighted down, nylon hop bags limit interaction with the beer that draws out the hop oils that give us the flavor and aroma we're after, unless they get agitated every few hours (dunking motion). And even then, you may lose out big time.
Hops swell up enormously when they get wet, so if the hops compact at all inside the bag, beer cannot freely penetrate the hop pulp to extract the goodness.

So toss in your dry hops loose, so they can swim freely is best. Especially when used in large amounts, like in NEIPAs.

After dry hopping, I stir the beer once or twice a day. I drilled a 1" access hole in the lid I can stick the back end of my long plastic brewing spoon through. It has a small rectangular paddle on that end. It helps bringing the dry-hop pulp in suspension. I do all that while streaming a gentle flow of CO2 through the airlock stem, so no air can get in. Only takes about a minute.

All hop pulp, yeast and trub will settle at the end of fermentation and even more completely during cold crashing.

 

[wepeeler]

Today (at 17:00) i've checked the wort. Its 1.018 now (46 hours after yeast was pured into the wort) (So OG: 1.070, this afternoon: 1.018).
What do you think, can my yeast ferment it to 1.012 or maybe better 1.010?
I've also put the first amount of dry hop into the fermentor. I divided my amount of hops into 2 equal parts. I've used 130g of hop during brewing, i put 85g of hops today, and i will put the rest 85g few days later. So at all 100g Galaxy, 100g Amarillo, 100g Citra.
I've also tasted it in the measurement cylinder. It seemed cloudy (very very cloudy XD) but i can only taste a bittter taste (bitter of hops) and yeast (not bad taste, the same when i'm cooking bread or some home made pasta. So the original yeast taste). Should i taste the juicy-fruity flavors now?

P.s. the yeast was at the top of the wort it created a high foam layer. Is it ok?

Let it go man, I wouldn't touch it for 2 weeks. Toss in loose pellets when dry hopping. The vegetal parts (not all but most) will drop out of suspension during the 2nd week in the primary. You'll get some into the bottle, but it won't hurt anything. As of now, what you're tasting will most likely be much more bitter and yeasty than you can expect for your final product. Relax dude, as long as everything is sanitary, you'll have very good, drinkable beer.

 

[adam88]

Thanks all! When you suggest the second dry hopping?
(I have starsan in a spray-bottle. I use it even if i touch the bucket from outside XD)

 

[wepeeler]

Thanks all! When you suggest the second dry hopping?
(I have starsan in a spray-bottle. I use it even if i touch the bucket from outside XD)

I would do your 2nd dry hop about 3-4 days before kegging/bottling. Ask 5 people and you'll get 5 answers, but I've been happy with a few days before kegging.

 

[adam88]

Okay. And if i add the second part of hop, shall i remove the previous amount?

 

[wepeeler]

Okay. And if i add the second part of hop, shall i remove the previous amount?

Nope. Dump it all in. Are you planning on transferring to a bottling bucket before bottling? Just try to leave behind as much debris as possible.

 

[adam88]

I did not plan that because i'm trying to avoid oxygenisation as much as possible :/
Should i transfer it into another bucket before bottling?
(I'm planning to use a bottling syphone)

 

[wepeeler]

I did not plan that because i'm trying to avoid oxygenisation as much as possible :/
Should i transfer it into another bucket before bottling?
(I'm planning to use a bottling syphone)

That's where I was going with this. You need to add priming sugar to your beer while bottling. The trub is going to be a factor if you plan to use the same vessel. I guess you could add carbonation drops to each bottle, but I've never done it, so I'm the wrong one to ask, sorry.

 

[Jag75]

Yes you take 5 oz of priming sugar dissolve in 2 cups boiling water . Put in your botteling bucket . Then transfer your beer to the botteling bucket. Leaving g behind the trub. Then I would purge that botteling bucket with co2 if you have a way. Then use your botteling wand and fill. If I were you I would purge each bottle with co2 , fill then purge again then cap. If you have a soda stream it works great . However botteling a NEIPA isnt something I would do. If I do it just to bottle from a keg and drink it same day.

That priming sugar amount is for 5 gallons.

 

[Dgallo]

5 oz of priming sugar is too much for this style. You’ll want to use 3.75-4 oz. For 5 gallons that will give you roughly 2.3/2.4 volumes of co2 which will benefits the mouthfeel.

I wish I read this forum earlier to help you with the yeast info. London III is a yeast where you really need to drive the fermentation temps to truly get the peach ester profile. Pitch at 65, let it go to 68-70 the first 2 days, then try to push it 72-74 until active fermentation is over. Then you want to do a rest at 70-72 for it to clean itself up 48-72 hours. Driving the fermentation provides a clean, peach ester profile.

 

[Jag75]

5 oz of priming sugar is too much for this style. You’ll want to use 3.75-4 oz. For 5 gallons that will give you roughly 2.3/2.4 volumes of co2 which will benefits the mouthfeel.


I wish I read this forum earlier to help you with the yeast info. London III is a yeast where you really need to drive the fermentation temps to truly get the peach ester profile. Pitch at 65, let it go to 68-70 the first 2 days, then try to push it 72-74 until active fermentation is over. Then you want to do a rest at 70-72 for it to clean itself up 48-72 hours. Driving the fermentation like provides a clean, peach ester profile.

Shoot didn't know that ,thank you for the info. I have to jot that down .

 

[Dgallo]

Shoot didn't know that ,thank you for the info. I have to jot that down .

Esters develop under stresss. Driving the temp like that will stress them enough to produce esters but will keep it clean.

For the Priming sugar, always add what you will need for your desired volume of c02 for each style of beer. I use this calculator https://www.northernbrewer.com/pages/priming-sugar-calculator
Doing this elevates the overall perception of your finished beer

 

[Jag75]

I had no idea that volumes and such went hand in hand with botteling . I thought it was just kegging and psi of co2 in a keg at a certain temp. Good stuff man . I'm saving that link.

 

[adam88]

Hello All!
Thanks for all your help!(again!)
I had luck because i started pitching at the mentioned temp (64). The recipe i've read told that let the wort cool to 63-64, pitch the yeast and let the wort go to temp 70 by itself! Then the fermentation will raise thr temp naturally a bit and when fermentation will be over mostly, itt will go back to 70 72. I've checked this and i had luck cuz' this was the way of the fermentation! This was an another article i followed: https://byo.com/article/neipa-style-profile/

But maybe i made a mistake. When i spoke about hops... i meant hop-pellets. So i do not have whole hops but hop pellets(small pellets). Even in this case it is recommended to not put the pellets into anything but into the wort itself?
Also i'd like to ask when to transfer the beer into another bucket? The same day Before bottling? Or a few(how many) days earlier?
If i do it in the following way, it will be ok?-> clean the new bucket and use starsan on it, then purge it with co2, transfer beer with a bottling syphone, put on the top, push in some co2 over the beer.