My Dunkelweisse is dying. Help.

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

Please help save it. Here is the deal:

Brewed the dunkelweisse from Jamil's book and everything went great. Hit all of my intended numbers. Beer tasted great at all stages of sampling.

Force carbonated using the "set and forget" method. 15psi at 38 degrees. I guess I missed the "forget" part of this method and sampled pretty heavily along the way. Beer tasted fabulous.

Then all of a sudden it turned flavorless and watery. Also lost its good aroma.

The only thing that I introduced was I split my gas line to put in a T, and added another keg. (All working off a single regulator). Kept regualtor at 15psi.

Beer pours with 2" foam and keg does not leak. I also did not find any other leaks when spraying down with StarSan.

I have yet to sample the other keg. Will do that tonight.

What could cause a total loss of flavor and aroma? Could I be in the middle of a change due to contamination?

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

maybe i am serving it at too cold of a temp. Found serving temps at ratebeer.com. Would 3-5 degrees make a big difference in the taste qualitites. I checked the last time I sampled and it was about 41.


Very cold (0-4C/32-39F): Any beer you don’t actually want to taste. Pale Lager, Malt Liquor, Canadian-style Golden Ale and Cream Ale, Low Alcohol, Canadian, American or Scandinavian-style Cider.



Cold (4-7C/39-45F): Hefeweizen, Kristalweizen, Kölsch, Premium Lager, Pilsner, Classic German Pilsner, Fruit Beer, brewpub-style Golden Ale, European Strong Lager, Berliner Weisse, Belgian White, American Dark Lager, sweetened Fruit Lambics and Gueuzes, Duvel-types



Cool (8-12C/45-54F): American Pale Ale, Amber Ale, California Common, Dunkelweizen, Sweet Stout, Stout, Dry Stout, Porter, English-style Golden Ale, unsweetened Fruit Lambics and Gueuzes, Faro, Belgian Ale, Bohemian Pilsner, Dunkel, Dortmunder/Helles, Vienna, Schwarzbier, Smoked, Altbier, Tripel, Irish Ale, French or Spanish-style Cider



Cellar (12-14C/54-57F): Bitter, Premium Bitter, Brown Ale, India Pale Ale, English Pale Ale, English Strong Ale, Old Ale, Saison, Unblended Lambic, Flemish Sour Ale, Bière de Garde, Baltic Porter, Abbey Dubbel, Belgian Strong Ale, Weizen Bock, Bock, Foreign Stout, Zwickel/Keller/Landbier, Scottish Ale, Scotch Ale, American Strong Ale, Mild, English-style Cider



Warm (14-16C/57-61F): Barley Wine, Abt/Quadrupel, Imperial Stout, Imperial/Double IPA, Doppelbock, Eisbock, Mead



Hot (70C/158F): Quelque Chose, Liefmans Glühkriek, dark, spiced winter ales like Daleside Morocco Ale.

 

[DKershner]

Then all of a sudden it turned flavorless and watery. Also lost its good aroma.

Hefeweizens die pretty quick deaths, in the realm of a month or two, quicker if it's in my kegerator, but that's a consumption death. That being said, they still don't taste very 'watery' just lose some aroma and taste.

Chances are good that your beer became oxidized sometime along the way. This happens when a large amount of oxygen gets to your beer. (Think pump party tap). Since you mention messing with your gas system, I think there is a possibility that while changing to the T, you let oxygen in and then did not purge it out when finished with your project. Just a guess though...

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

you are right i did not purge the keg, but I am not sure how o2 would have entered the keg while under pressure. I can't imagine a large amount of 02 got in if any.

How long do you suppose it takes to oxidize a beer?

 

[DKershner]

you are right i did not purge the keg, but I am not sure how o2 would have entered the keg while under pressure. I can't imagine a large amount of 02 got in if any.

How long do you suppose it takes to oxidize a beer?

Depends on how much oxygen. Obviously a party tap only takes 1-2 days. There is also the chance you just didnt purge or purge well to begin with when you kegged it, but I was guessing it was the out of the ordinary process.

My thoughts would be:
Turn off pressure, but leave keg connected, pressure leaks out while installing, o2 gets in.

But again, without tasting it or you verifying anything it is just guessing.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Could you have sucked up all the yeast? A good bit of the flavor profile for a Dunkelweiss is the yeast.

Now for some

Is that the same recipe in the new BYO? I am about to brew that one.

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

You know, I was wondering about that. Sucking up the yeast that is. How does one deal with that when kegging a wheat beer?

I got the recipe here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/dunkelweizen-64392/

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

You know, I was wondering about that. Sucking up the yeast that is. How does one deal with that when kegging a wheat beer?

I got the recipe here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f70/dunkelweizen-64392/

That looks close to his recipe in BYO, I don't have the magazine with me.

What I do with a yeasty wheat, is every now and then, unhook the keg, pull it out, flip it over, give it a shake, then put it back. Give it a little time to settle, and you are back in business. That only works until the yeast is gone.

I wonder if making a starter to replace the yeast would work? I still have a couple of jars of 3068 left.

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

interesting. How many pints do you think it would take to clear all of the yeast out?

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Not sure on the number, but if the beer is clear, you are out of yeast.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Dunkelweiss is an odd beer.

My current batch was fermented a little cool, so had almost no banana flavor. Lots of clove, no banana to speak of.

I just pulled a pint, and WHOA, banana time! Where did that come from?

 

[commonlaw]

maybe you just need to jiggle the keg around to get any remaining yeast back up into the beer rather than sitting on the bottom of the keg. Yeast was my first thought too.

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

Dunkelweiss is an odd beer.

My current batch was fermented a little cool, so had almost no banana flavor. Lots of clove, no banana to speak of.

I just pulled a pint, and WHOA, banana time! Where did that come from?

Yea it is an odd one. I fermented at 68, had tons of bananna early on, then it really settled out.

I believe you guys are right. I think what i did was accidently cold crashed it in the kegerator since it was pretty cold when i first put it in there. Then I managed to slurp up all of the yeast.

So can you just pitch a starter into the keg? Has anyone done this?

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

So can you just pitch a starter into the keg? Has anyone done this?

I'm thinking the same thing.

I have a Hefe that I'm about to keg, maybe tonight. The yeast (Wy3068) in the hefe was harvested from this batch of Dunkelweiss. I plan to wash the yeast in the Hefe again, anyway.

Why not dump a taste of the washed yeast into the Dunkelweiss keg?

 

[Gremlyn]

The problem with pitching a starter into your fermented beer is that you'll introduce a lot of oxygen along with it. Starters should be very well aerated before going into wort, and the yeast likely won't have used it all up before you pitch. If you made a very small batch, basically a fully fermented starter, and carefully introduced that, then you might get away with it but you also then chance completely changing the flavour of the beer anyway. It's probably best to just live and learn on this one.

 

[Gremlyn]

I'm thinking the same thing.

I have a Hefe that I'm about to keg, maybe tonight. The yeast (Wy3068) in the hefe was harvested from this batch of Dunkelweiss. I plan to wash the yeast in the Hefe again, anyway.

Why not dump a taste of the washed yeast into the Dunkelweiss keg?

Just give the keg a swirl if you haven't taken any draws from it in a while, and you should be OK.

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

ah ok so the moral of the story is:

If you are kegging a wheat beer and don't draw off it often you need to give the keg a swirl before pulling one.

And if you don't and draw too much off a settled keg, you might just drink up all the yeast.

 

[DKershner]

ah ok so the moral of the story is:

If you are kegging a wheat beer and don't draw off it often you need to give the keg a swirl before pulling one.

And if you don't and draw too much off a settled keg, you might just drink up all the yeast.

I have never had an issue with this, and love the wheaty beers, but I also don't really have an issue with this:

If you are kegging a wheat beer and don't draw off it often

 

[DKershner]

Oh, and I think another solution someone mentioned in another thread is to bend your dip tube up slightly.

Another mentioned putting a liquid dip tube on the gas side to stir up the yeast whenever the gas is introduced into the beer.

I pay attention to these issues because of my love for weizens but I also have never had an issue doing nothing out of the ordinary on them.

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

well my problem was because i cold crashed it on accident, but this type of yeast strain is a very low flocculant so it shouldn't settle that quickly. I am not sure what the time frame is though.

I have found that I pull the lever much more now that I homebrew.

Just the other day she says, "I have noticed you are drinking a lot more beer lately."

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

I pay attention to these issues because of my love for weizens but I also have never had an issue doing nothing out of the ordinary on them.

Glad there are some of you left. The more people I talk to, the less popular weizens are to them. Not me!

 

[DKershner]

Glad there are some of you left. The more people I talk to, the less popular weizens are to them. Not me!

We are in a hop fad, sooner or later it'll come back to the malt and yeast guys. I'm a hophead just like the next guy, but I always keep a bag of wheat around just in case I feel like taking a quick beer-laden German vacation.

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

We are in a hop fad, sooner or later it'll come back to the malt and yeast guys. I'm a hophead just like the next guy, but I always keep a bag of wheat around just in case I feel like taking a quick beer-laden German vacation.

Ah man, you too?

I haven't really gotten there yet, but maybe because I just haven't found an IPA that i couldn't live without.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Not me.

I have a Dunkelweiss, a lime wheat, a weisenbock and a cherry wheat on tap, am kegging a hefe tonight, and my next brew will be another 8 gallon batch of Dunkelweiss, followed by another 8 gallon batch of wheat (5 gallons of blueberry and 3 gallons of hefe).

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

wow. you are my wheat hero. Wheats are the best.

How is that lime wheat? I have never even heard of it. I am not a big fan of Leniekeugals Susnet Wheat so I am particular on my wheats. Not a fan of American wheats but Germans on the other hand...

My neighbor is alergic to the wheat beers. Tell me how much that would suck.

 

[DKershner]

wow. you are my wheat hero. Wheats are the best.

How is that lime wheat? I have never even heard of it. I am not a big fan of Leniekeugals Susnet Wheat so I am particular on my wheats. Not a fan of American wheats but Germans on the other hand...

My neighbor is alergic to the wheat beers. Tell me how much that would suck.

My live in girlfriend is too.

As much as I respect the Capt for his wheat fetish, I think a good variety is the spice of life. Don't hate me for my love of the hop, but don't think I love the wheaties any less either.

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

haha I see what it comes down to.

Those girlfriends can be replaced.

I'll agree though he does seem to have a bit of a fetish.

 

[DKershner]

Those girlfriends can be replaced.

I won't go into that, but if it's any indication, she hates hops. They are for me, I promise. You'll find that IPA that turns you.

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

you know that makes me wonder if all of you hop heads are burning out your taste buds.

Seems like that much acid on your tongue would do some damage.

 

[DKershner]

you know that makes me wonder if all of you hop heads are burning out your taste buds.

Seems like that much acid on your tongue would do some damage.

Nah, its a temporary burn, just like spicy food. If anything it wakes em up!

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

wow. you are my wheat hero. Wheats are the best.

How is that lime wheat? I have never even heard of it. I am not a big fan of Leniekeugals Susnet Wheat so I am particular on my wheats. Not a fan of American wheats but Germans on the other hand...

My neighbor is alergic to the wheat beers. Tell me how much that would suck.

Well, the Lime Wheat started out, of all things, as a "Tequiza" clone, with agave nectar and lime zest. The aguave flavor fermented out, leaving just lime. I had made a goof up using the Brewmaster's Warehouse brew builder. This brew and a wheat beer were both added (by me) at once, causing ALL the grains (including a LOT of wheat) to be combined in one huge bag. D'oh!

Result: Lime Wheat. Best "goof up" I ever made.

 

[DKershner]

Well, the Lime Wheat started out, of all things, as a "Tequiza" clone, with agave nectar and lime zest. The aguave flavor fermented out, leaving just lime. I had made a goof up using the Brewmaster's Warehouse brew builder. This brew and a wheat beer were both added (by me) at once, causing ALL the grains (including a LOT of wheat) to be combined in one huge bag. D'oh!

Result: Lime Wheat. Best "goof up" I ever made.

I cannot even imagine what that tastes like. Did you brew 10gal instead of 5? Or is this lime wheat like 10% abv?

I have to admit I laughed at your misfortune, and then thought about what I could make from what I have lying around the house...

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

I cannot even imagine what that tastes like. Did you brew 10gal instead of 5? Or is this lime wheat like 10% abv?

I have to admit I laughed at your misfortune, and then thought about what I could make from what I have lying around the house...

No, it was a 5 gallon batch, came out right at 5.5%. Pretty good, actually. Very clear, very crisp. There was too much lime at first, but aging has mellowed it nicely.

I divided the big bag of grain in two by weight. One was supposed to be a wheat, anyway. The "Tequiza Clone" just had a LOT more wheat than planned.

 

[MilwaukeeBrewGuy]

Figured I would post an update to my dunkelweisse that i was having some problems with.

boy you were right a dunkelweisse is an odd one. I held fermentation at 68 degrees, and had tons of bananna aroma and flavor. This seems to have died out and now i just have clove flavors with little aroma.

So, it appears it wasn't actually dying, but rather going through some extreme changes. It seems to slowly be getting better with age. I brewed it on 12/20 and kegged about 2 1/2 weeks later. So now it is almost a month old. I thought the flavors on these stabilized pretty quickly, but maybe not...