Moving into RIMS--need a reality check

[ExMachina]

Hi guys,

Annoyingly broad noob question to follow (so you have been warned!)

Been brewing over 20 years now, and finally want to transition from my propane fueled (boil kettle) hot water infusion system to an electric system. My plan to to move in two stages, with the the first stage being a RIMS mashing system.

What I hoping for by posting here, would be to get some of your advice, warnings and experiences with moving into RIMS. Basically, I want to make sure that my choices now are not dead ends, and that they will (eventually) be expandable to a full on electric mash/boil system.

The current plan is to begin with my 10 gallon picnic cooler and keep that as my RIMS mashing vessel. Here's how I'm imaging things would proceed:

1) RIMS tube from Brew hardware, and I like the idea of using a longer tube along with a longer heating element. Planning on running the element at just 120V.

2) Wort re-circulation: I like augiedoggy's use of a 24v DC pump to limit the flow through the RIMS tube, so buy a few of those (they're cheap enough); also will need a suitable power supply and I gather ~3A @ 24V is plenty, even should I choose to run multiple pumps.

3) Flow control: I also like augiedoggy's idea of using a flow sensor somewhere ahead of the element to forestall any burning/boiling should the flow stop, so I plan to add that in

4) Temp control--here I'm stuck. I was thinking I could just go with a pre-set-up PID (like an Inkbird), but since I'm going the DC route on the pumps, I'm thinking I will just need to jump in and make a control panel (I'd been hoping to avoid this, as it seems like a rabbit hole in terms of getting the size and layout right). So I don't know if I should just go all in with something like a BCS-462 (with plans on expanding later) or would be better served with a simpler solution (and if so, what?).

Is there anything I'm missing? It seems too simple

Thanks for any advice

 

[cegan09]

The EZ Boil from Auber is a good option, and would expand nicely in the future. For a RIMS do you do want something with PID or similar control intead of a basic on-off controller.

You can build a nice RIMS controller with just the EZ Boil, an SSR, some safety items like relays and switches, and a small enclosure. If your plan is to go full electric later than maybe don't start on the full size control panel until you have all the parts and layout so you're able to design that the way you like it.

 

[ExMachina]

For a RIMS do you do want something with PID or similar control intead of a basic on-off controller.

Yeah, the EZboil looks pretty spot on--maybe have one dedicated to the RIMS heating element (and a separate circuit for the pump) and then expand later with a second one once I hook up a BK. Good rec!

 

[augiedoggy]

well the controller doesnt need to have anything to do with the pump really... you could use the inkbird ipb16 to power the rims and just use a dc pump with a power supply or even make a small pump controll box to plug all your pumps into (honestly this might allow for better expansion/change options down the road)
EZboils are nice too though... just more DIY involved.

The flow switch controls the element power not the pump you just wire it inline to one of the ssr control power wires to cut the signal if the flow stops.

You can also make the rims kit from brewhardware any length you want by just adding a tri clamp "spool" or sight glass in the middle to achieve the length you need.

 

[cegan09]

On RIMS safety, as long as you have a temp sensor in the tube at the exit, and you position the tube correctly, you should never be able to damage the element or burn/boil the wort. As long as the tube is completely below the liquid level in your kettle, then it should never develop air bubbles if the pump turns off, the tube will remain full of wort. If the pump does stop, the wort in the tube should hit your target temp, and with the temp sensor at the exit it should command the element to turn off.

flow sensors and other stuff is nice, but it isn't strictly necessary. I've had my pump jam a couple times when I wasn't nearby, and thanks to having my setup as described above the EZBoil just turned the element off since it was at or above target.

 

[augiedoggy]

On RIMS safety, as long as you have a temp sensor in the tube at the exit, and you position the tube correctly, you should never be able to damage the element or burn/boil the wort. As long as the tube is completely below the liquid level in your kettle, then it should never develop air bubbles if the pump turns off, the tube will remain full of wort. If the pump does stop, the wort in the tube should hit your target temp, and with the temp sensor at the exit it should command the element to turn off.

flow sensors and other stuff is nice, but it isn't strictly necessary. I've had my pump jam a couple times when I wasn't nearby, and thanks to having my setup as described above the EZBoil just turned the element off since it was at or above target.

While I agree this is true and a god point to share, There is no shortage of scorched wort and denatured enzyme stories associated with rims on here likely due to improperly setup rims tubes. in the majority of the rims setups out there the temp probe is not close enough to the element and some scorching can happen very quickly if a regular lwd straight 5500w element is used at 240v.

That said I mainly implemented mine because I forgot to turn the rims element off a couple of times and guess what happens when theres no liquid in it with the element on? It stays on or turns back on after being off from reaching temp before being drained..
This was something I just assume not have to worry about. I can leave the room knowing it doesnt have to be babysat.

I also have a float switch in my HLT which has saved me from dry firing more than once.

 

[cegan09]

While I agree this is true and a god point to share, There is no shortage of scorched wort and denatured enzyme stories associated with rims on here likely due to improperly setup rims tubes. in the majority of the rims setups out there the temp probe is not close enough to the element and some scorching can happen very quickly if a regular lwd straight 5500w element is used at 240v.

That said I mainly implemented mine because I forgot to turn the rims element off a couple of times and guess what happens when theres no liquid in it with the element on? It stays on or turns back on after being off from reaching temp before being drained..
This was something I just assume not have to worry about. I can leave the room knowing it doesnt have to be babysat.

I also have a float switch in my HLT which has saved me from dry firing more than once.

All setups are different, so there's no one answer fits all. Yes, flow sensors can be a benefit, I will not say otherwise. I only wanted to point out that they aren't necessary if you're trying to build a cheap RIMS setup.

Of note, my RIMS uses a 1500W 120V element, so my risks are likely a lot lower. I can see using one on a 5500W element if you've wired it to be able to use full power.

 

[augiedoggy]

Very true.. they can be added for about $20 though and thats cheap although relative to what the builder finds worthwhile and worth it.

my rims is only 1800w and 240v but again its more of a dryfire measure than anything plus its also an indicator for me thats somethings wrong if the element isnt firing. And I did have an issue once with the pump were this was a dead givaway (of course I also have a visual flow meter to look at)

 

[ExMachina]

you could use the inkbird ipb16 to power the rims and just use a dc pump with a power supply or even make a small pump controll box to plug all your pumps into (honestly this might allow for better expansion/change options down the road)

Yes! This is definitely what was imagining for the RIMS at least, but now you have me wondering whether I might be best served by abandoning my Chugger pump entirely. All 24V pumps would be less complicated electrically, and any loss in flow rate would be inconsequential for my scale (10-11gal batches). Don't know how well the pumps hold up to near boiling temps though--okay I guess?

And FWIW, I definitely see a flow sensor as cheap insurance here.

Thanks again

 

[augiedoggy]

Yes they hold up to boiling temp ok but any pump could sustain damage from pumping long term while boiling. I recirc hot wort through my plate chiller for a few mins at the end of my boil but I usually kill the element first.
One limitation to these pumps is you need to have good filtration to prevent solids from going through them and jamming them up. I've never had this issue but I've seen others report it.