Most aggressive yeast you know about?

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Miraculix

Miraculix

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Hi!

What is the most aggressive yeast strain you know about? Aggressive meaning in this case high attenuation and quick fermentation.

Basically, I want a yeast that eats all the sugars as quickly as possible. Would prefer a dry yeast but would consider liquid if necessary.

Supposed to be a beer at the end, so beer yeast would be best. But don't limit your suggestions to that. If you know that one ultra aggressive wine yeast strain just let me know!

Cheers,

M
 
I would say a champagne yeast is one that would do what you are looking for.

My question is why? It will make a very dry beer. Probably without a good flavor a carefully selected beer yeast would give you.
I select my yeasts to give a flavor that I am looking to get in the finished beer.
 
kh54s10 said:
I would say a champagne yeast is one that would do what you are looking for.

My question is why? It will make a very dry beer. Probably without a good flavor a carefully selected beer yeast would give you.
I select my yeasts to give a flavor that I am looking to get in the finished beer.
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Ok, and on the beer side of yeast? I read that the belle Saison dry yeast should be a quite aggressive "chewing through rubber" ish type of yeast.

It is going to be a gruit beer without hops and I want to keep it from going sour by not giving the bacteria the chance to feast on residual sweetness. Also the yeast should be quicker in emptying the plate than the bacteria are in starting to feast, that's why I am asking.
 
Any hefeweizen yeast will be very fast. Or better, Windsor ale yeast. Some English yeasts like Windsor will finish in just 36 hours!

EDIT: The trouble with Windsor, though, is the attenuation is only about 60%. Nottingham ale yeast will attenuate any beer to about 77-78% but will take an extra couple days, but is still pretty fast at room temp.
 
Miraculix said:
Thanks, that sounds good! But aren't the English yeasts known for leaving quite a big amount of sugars behind?
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Most of them will, but that is not an issue, IF you brew styles accordingly. Most porter, stouts, mild ales and english ales will benefit from that " residual sugar " left behind.

I have had T-58 begin fermentation 2 hours after I pitched the yeast. That was quick. 1318 will also finish very wuick and so will Conan ( maybe not the 1st generation, but still ).

SafAle S-04 is a fast and hard worker, if pitched right. For my birthday in November, I am planning a special brew, using 70% S-04, 20% WB-06 and 10% T-58, with a simple grist of Pilsner, flaked wheat, CaraPils and CaraBelge. ABV 9% and I am sure that beer will finish quick in max. 5 days.

But most of these yeast will behave somewhat differently for some users. I believe it is up to each and everyone to find out which they like most.
 
You could use WLP001 and then finish it off with Brett C. It might take 4-6 weeks but it will be very dry and slightly funky.
 
The point is, as written before, I want the yeast to eat the sugars as quick as possible so that lactic acid bacteria won't have a chance to get hold on them. This includes the long chained sugars.

I won't have any hops in the gruit so nothing to stop those little lactic acid bugs from souring the beer accept temperature and lack of food.
 
DemonsRun said:
Agree! If you don't like the funk you can run the first two days at 68 then Ramp up the Temp

Also WLP644- has always fully attenuated for me.

you could also do a blend or start with an Ale yeast and finish with a saison.
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Yes, I also had this idea in mind. But if Saison is generally on the slow side, maybe it would be better to finish with a champagne yeast instead?
 
Miraculix said:
The point is, as written before, I want the yeast to eat the sugars as quick as possible so that lactic acid bacteria won't have a chance to get hold on them. This includes the long chained sugars.



I won't have any hops in the gruit so nothing to stop those little lactic acid bugs from souring the beer accept temperature and lack of food.
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You're assuming that you're going to have a lacto infection. Possibly from the gruit additions after chilling?

Or are you just thinking that all beer potentially gets infected without hops. That just isn't true.
 
fWIW I wouldn't be surprised if you contacted wyeast etc they would give you a recommendation and a temp to ferment at. I would think the Champagne yeasts would work best in a wine type. beer type for it to ferment that high I'm not real sure. Keeping things on the high side tempwise or maybe even over the high side would speed it as well. Also why not just treat it like must instead of a beer then ferment with a beer strain. I would think that would keep the funkies out.
 
dmtaylor said:
"Just isn't"? I wouldn't be so absolute, based on my own experience with unhopped gruits. What's been your experience?
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Well, if the question was whether "all beer potentially gets infected without hops," then it's definitely true. I mean, all beer potentially gets infected either way. In fact, before you open the carboy and find out, your beer is already potentially infected. In a way, it can be said that your beer is simultaneously infected and not infected until you open the carboy and find out.
 
dmtaylor said:
"Just isn't"? I wouldn't be so absolute, based on my own experience with unhopped gruits. What's been your experience?
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Exactly.

We are not completely steril, we would need laboratory conditions to be completely bug free, even if we sanitise the **** out of our equipment.

I know that it is possible to create a gruit without souring it, if you follow the gruit beer thread, there are examples, but it is still a bit of a lucky shot. I would like to invent a system that is more bullet proof.

I will base it on four assumptions:

1. Mash long with low temp to get an easy to ferment wort.

2. Ferment in the lower temp ranges, lactic acid bacterias love the warmth even more than yeast does, this should slow down their growth significantly.

3. High attenuative and fast yeast. If the yeast does not leave sugars behind, the lactic acid bugs won't have food.

4. Over pitch! More yeast, less time to ferment the wort, less time for the lactic acid bacterias to grow.

I do not want to get more into detail in this thread here, as this should be about part three, to find the best yeast for this purpose.

But please, feel all invited to the gruit beer thread if you would like to discuss or contribute some of your knowledge!!!
 
I'd normally never recommend it, but WLP099.

My understanding was that most (but not all) champagne yeasts can't ferment maltose let alone anything bigger (otherwise if used as a bottling strain everyone would have bottle bombs). Makes for a poor sole fermentation strain for a beer.
 
Hmmmm, high attenuation and fast ferm? At high temps Hothead or Voss are super fast. High attenuation? TYBs Dry Belgian Ale is a monster even with a high mash temp. That being said, mashing low will help attenuation.

Edit: WLP099 would also be good. Really depends on your flavor preferences.
 
K1-V1116 is a wine yeast that might work. It's the only wine yeast that I know of that will ferment maltotriose, and it's a "killer" yeast that will kill any competitors. Some day I'm going to try using it to make beer, but there are lots of other brews I need to do first. I would not use champagne yeast unless you want sweet beer.

T-58 is pretty fast, and it does okay warm.
 
dmtaylor said:
Please don't. I've done it twice, and both results sucked.
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Out of curiosity, what specifically sucked? This is a genuine question as I don't have experience brewing with baker's yeast. But I read somewhere that it is traditional for gruit style beers and that it ferments very aggressively which is why I made the suggestion.
 
I have used bread yeast to make a sparkling wine. IIRC, it was half Concord grape juice and half Niagara, so it was kind of a rose'. No sugar except for priming, and I used gelatin to clear it before bottling. I thought it turned out pretty good. And it was fast.
 
beerhappy said:
Out of curiosity, what specifically sucked? This is a genuine question as I don't have experience brewing with baker's yeast. But I read somewhere that it is traditional for gruit style beers and that it ferments very aggressively which is why I made the suggestion.
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Bread yeast makes your brew taste like.... bread yeast. It is tart, bready, and full of sulfur, as well as a slight acetone kind of chemically flavor. Not very good. I used it in a cider, and in a beer, and both were like this.
 
Making a gruit? Let it get soured. It would be traditional that way. In fact you could use raw unfiltered honey into the carboy and let the wild yeasts ferment your beer and any bacteria would sour it nicely too. It would be an ancient ale
 
Thanks for all the recommendations!

The wine yeast sounds very interesting, I will investigate a bit on that one.

I also think I will write wyeast an email and ask for their general advice.

I know I gruit is traditionally a sour beer and I made a lot of those sour gruits which I personally really liked, but not everybody is into sours as I am, so I wanted to develop a route that gives you more control about the intensity of the souring and, if necessary, would enable me to make an unsoured gruit.

And remember guys, it is not only about speed, it also should finish as dry as possible! High temperature during fermentation won't be possible, I am aiming at something lower than room temperature to inhibit bacterial growth.
 
If you want to try a wine yeast, get one that ferments maltotriose like Lalvin K1-V1116. I think it's a killer yeast though so I wouldn't co-pitch it, although you'd have to check that out as I'm not completely sure

Nottingham is the fastest dried yeast with good attenuation, belle saison has the greates attenuation but is a bit slower. If you are fermenting low as you say, then you could co-pitch these two as you won't get off flavours from notty and the belle saison should take the gravity right down in a week or two
 

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