Modus Hoperandi Water Question

[stewart194]

I just listened to a podcast where the brewers at Ska were talking about the importance of water, in terms of home brewers cloning this beer. They said they only use Gypsum, Canning Salt, and Baking Soda to treat their water.

Is Baking Soda the same thing as Calcium Chloride?

What is the difference between Canning Salt and Regular Salt?

The only other thing they mentioned was that they used "a lot" of Gypsum. I use RO water, and typically for my IPA's I use 2 teaspoons Gypsum, 1 teaspoons Calcium Chloride, 1 teaspoon Epsom salt, and a 1/4 teaspoon of Sea Salt for a 5 Gallon batch.

What do you think they consider to be "a lot" of Gypsum? Should I double the Gypsum and see what happens or do you think that would be too much?

Thanks!

 

[mabrungard]

I don't know what water Ska uses, but I have to assume that they have very low alkalinity water. I see that they are in the Rocky Mtns, so they probably need the baking soda. Baking soda is an alkalinity increasing mineral and it is not the same as calcium chloride. Most brewers don't need to worry about adding baking soda or its alkalinity. But there are places with low alkalinity water and many brewers also use RO water, so they may need to add alkalinity to their mash.

Alkalinity is needed when a brewer creates a very gypsum-rich water for brewing pale ales and IPA's. The hardness that is added to the water, drives the residual alkalinity down and the mash pH ends up lower than you want for those beers. You want to keep the wort pH in the kettle around 5.4 in order to improve the hop and bitterness expression. If you added a big dose of gypsum and calcium chloride to very low alkalinity water, the mash pH would certainly be well below 5.4.

I don't know what those spoon measures will produce in terms of ppm concentrations. So I can't comment there. But I can tell you that you might consider the pale ale profile that is shown in the Bru'n Water software. It has a fairly high mineralization without being over the top.

Canning salt is typically non-iodized salt. Considering how much we typically add to brewing water, it probably wouldn't matter if you used iodized table salt.

 

[stewart194]

Thanks! I do brew with RO water though. Does that mean I should be using Baking Soda? I usually adjust my pH with Phosphoric Acid, and know how much it takes to get me in that 5.2 to 5.4 range.

As far as the amount of Gypsum, Calcium Chloride, etc that I use, I found that post that AJ Delange put on these forums. His "simplified" water chemistry advice. I think Yooper actually posted it, but that is where I got my baseline for RO water, and I've just kind of tweaked it from there depending on the style of beer I'm brewing.

 

[NervousDad]

I just made Modus Hoperandi last month. They don't use RO from what I understand so I'd focus on your RO profile. I used 10 grams gypsum for mash and 10 for sparge along with 1 gram Calcium Chloride. mash/sparge.

The beer came out amazing and very close to Modus I'll dig up my true water profile.


My pint is on the left. It was only an couple hours after kegging so it still hasn't cleared. (but really that bear should be unfiltered)

 

[mabrungard]

Thanks! I do brew with RO water though. Does that mean I should be using Baking Soda? I usually adjust my pH with Phosphoric Acid, and know how much it takes to get me in that 5.2 to 5.4 range.

Only for those brews that will actually need it. For most pale brews, the acid is needed and no alkalinity. Its when you really juice up the water with calcium and magnesium that you might need the alkalinity. The other time you may need to add alkalinity is when mashing a grist with a lot of darker crystal and/or roasted malts. A program like Bru'n Water is invaluable in assessing the need for alkalinity or acid additions.

 

[tgmartin000]

Search for the Tasty McDole water profile. It's about Ca110, Mg18, Na 17, SO4 350, Cl 50....something like that. I started using it for all my ales, and it's great. Really makes a huge difference in how the bitterness is perceived. Other than that, listen to what Martin says.

BTW Modus is a great beer.

 

[stewart194]

I just made Modus Hoperandi last month. They don't use RO from what I understand so I'd focus on your RO profile. I used 10 grams gypsum for mash and 10 for sparge along with 1 gram Calcium Chloride. mash/sparge.

The beer came out amazing and very close to Modus I'll dig up my true water profile.

Thanks! They said that they use Durango water, get the water report frequently and adjust from there. I've made this once before and it turned out pretty well, but I just thought I would try to get closer this time. There are 4 grams of gyspum per teaspoon, so I am using 8 grams total and you are using 20 total. Maybe I'll double my gypsum and see what happens.

They also said that they add the brewing salts directly to the dry grain, so that is what I've been doing with this beer also.

 

[stewart194]

Only for those brews that will actually need it. For most pale brews, the acid is needed and no alkalinity. Its when you really juice up the water with calcium and magnesium that you might need the alkalinity. The other time you may need to add alkalinity is when mashing a grist with a lot of darker crystal and/or roasted malts. A program like Bru'n Water is invaluable in assessing the need for alkalinity or acid additions.

Thanks again! Honestly, the science behind water chemistry is just too far over my head. Even your Bru'n water templates. My brain just can't seem to grasp it for some reason. I did get a city water report once and was going to try to adjust it, but I just can't seem to figure it out. That is why I use RO water. I like the fact that it starts out at "Zero" every time and that I can build it from there.

 

[stewart194]

Search for the Tasty McDole water profile. It's about Ca110, Mg18, Na 17, SO4 350, Cl 50....something like that. I started using it for all my ales, and it's great. Really makes a huge difference in how the bitterness is perceived. Other than that, listen to what Martin says.

BTW Modus is a great beer.

Thanks! I've listened to several of his podcasts also, and that is what I've also tried to do. He said that he starts off with distilled or RO water and builds it this same way for most of his beers. I used Beersmith to try to get close to this. According to that, (If I did it correctly) I would add this for 5 gallons.

8 grams Gypsum (CaSO4)
.83 grams Table Salt (NaCl)
3.5 grams Epsom Salt (MgSO4)
1 gram Calcium Chloride (CaCl)

In teaspoons, that is roughly 2 tsp Gypsum, 1 tsp Calcium Chloride, 1 tsp Epsom Salt, & 1/2 tsp regular salt. I was thinking that maybe Baking Soda was the secret ingredient to Modus! Haha. I had never heard of people using it before.

 

[NervousDad]

Ca: 43
Mg: 22
Na: 19
Cl: 39
SO4: 24
CaCO3: 138

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 4.87 / 5.19
RO or distilled %: 71% / 77%

Total Grain (lb): 15.3

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaSO4: 9 / 9
CaCl2: 1 / 1
MgSO4: 0 / 0
NaHCO3: 0 / 0
CaCO3: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid (ml): 0
Sauermalz (oz): 2

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 138 / 133
Mg: 6 / 6
Na: 6 / 5
Cl: 37 / 35
SO4: 279 / 270
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 0.13 / 0.13

Alkalinity (CaCO3): -45
RA: -148
Estimated pH: 5.42
(room temp)


This was my water profile. I use ~75% RO and 25% of my water. I'm sure Martin would have a better idea if this was okay and would most likely do much better , but this was very close and the hops came through very well on this one.

 

[stewart194]

Ca: 43
Mg: 22
Na: 19
Cl: 39
SO4: 24
CaCO3: 138

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 4.87 / 5.19
RO or distilled %: 71% / 77%

Total Grain (lb): 15.3

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
CaSO4: 9 / 9
CaCl2: 1 / 1
MgSO4: 0 / 0
NaHCO3: 0 / 0
CaCO3: 0 / 0
Lactic Acid (ml): 0
Sauermalz (oz): 2

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 138 / 133
Mg: 6 / 6
Na: 6 / 5
Cl: 37 / 35
SO4: 279 / 270
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 0.13 / 0.13

Alkalinity (CaCO3): -45
RA: -148
Estimated pH: 5.42
(room temp)


This was my water profile. I use ~75% RO and 25% of my water. I'm sure Martin would have a better idea if this was okay and would most likely do much better , but this was very close and the hops came through very well on this one.

Thanks! I really appreciate it!