Modifying a stock pot for kettle cooling (with illustrations)

[BiggieB400]

At a very basic level, remove port 6 from the top of your chiller so that the chiller can be taken out of the way during recirculation and boil. You will want to cover the pot during recirculation with a top to hold in the heat and maintain temperature.

Also, pick up a pump that is suitable for boiling liquids so you do not poison yourself. Best of luck!! Post some pictures if you start the build!!

 

[surreal_trip]

Power to you dude you seem to be more of a tech guy so let your freak flag fly! I would say this entire process is a little extreme but whatever floats your boat... But if you decide that your beer is better then mine I'll fly over there and park my boot in ya (haha!)... I would recommend trying some biab to get your feel for it!

 

[Xier]

Wow, so many messages since yesterday. I will try to address them all.

JesseRC,
No hard feelings, the thing about you having lost you enthusiasm was an underhanded comment on my behalf and I apologize. My system may not be perfect and it may not even be original, but I did make it for myself and that makes me proud.

Two years ago I decided that I was going to solve the integer factorization problem and make a linear solution, my math level at the time was nearly non-existent. Sure enough, two years later I am still working on it. The solution that I have been trying to refine all that time is slower than guessing and all but useless, but it is original and I made it. Hell, I even learnt some real math along the way.

I know other people have came up with solutions and ideas similar and better than mine, ideas that have been refined by thousands around the world. Still, I would rather use one that I made up. That is just what gets me going. If I came across as arrogant or preachy, hell, I didn't mean to. This is the first time I have tried documenting a hobby of mine and I simply want to put my foray up for others to check out.

C'est la vie, live and let live.

CourtHouseBrewing,
Great idea, I was thinking of putting it all into some-kind of porated container but a cheesecloth would probably be much easier to work with. I am thinking the grain would be pretty sparged from the hot liquid being pushed through it. If I needed to get the remainder, I could probably open the lid on B, clamp the line between it and A, and then pour fresh water in. You seem to have a lot of great ideas, you should consider doing a little tinkering yourself.

I will be sure to keep things uncovered while they are boiling and mashing. the thing I want to look into next is oxygenating the wort. Pay day is two weeks from now and I will be able to do a little shopping. I hope that we will have enough to move forward with the next step. Worst case scenario is that I will not be able to do the actual brewing till next month. Hell only knows what crazy ways will be thought up to destroy my first brew in the mean-time!

KurtB,
I think you have a pretty good idea of how I intend for it to all work. The only thing is that I would be able to change and/or clean the filter in B fairly easily, while maintaining a boil in A. Also, like I was telling CourtHouseBrewing, I plan to contain the grains and hops while in B to prevent them from clogging it up too bad.

At any rate, I am sure all the pieces of what I am doing have been seen on here before, 'cause well, here is where I found them all! I have been looking over everyone else's designs and problems and just trying to combine it all into a solution of my own. I wanted to be able to sparge, lauter, step-mash, dry-hop and all the other cool things you all have been doing. But, I am also planning on harvesting yeast from these batches and it is important that I keep it all as close to sterile as I can.

BiggieB400,
Yes! I have been thinking a large deal about the suitability of the pump. Normally, pumps are designed for non-consumption purposes and even then usually not for heated liquid. I will have to be quite careful when choosing and also run the system with water for several hours before putting anything I plan to drink into it. As for the chiller being taken away, I do not see why that would be a problem. So long as I am not running liquid through it during the boil, it should stabilize at the pot's temperature.

Surreal_trip,
That's what I am saying, brother! Well, the part about floating boats and raising flags. You can keep your boot to yourself. Besides, with all the crazy stuff that I am doing to this batch, I seriously doubt if this "beer" will be better than anybody's! I will be thrilled if it comes out better than urea. If it is good enough to share with a friend, I exceeded my expectations!

Till I get this going, brew on brethren.

 

[JesseRC]

Xier, yeah I think part of the problem is you didn't tell us your story and how you wanted your approach to brewing to be all ideas that you make up. You'll probably have to preface every thread you start with a little intro so as to not confuse the masses.

Part of belonging to a community (HBtalk) is participating, learning, contributing,etc. For some of us, we just wont be able to get past the idea that we have helped you by providing you ideas,links and contacts of other fellow homebrewers and sources (in your area) to acquire malt, yeast, equipment etc. and yet you choose to do it your way (and honestly the hard way). I mean come on , other home brewers in your area are making beer, they are getting yeast from somewhere, right? Even bread yeast has got to be better than having to capture and cultivate wild yeast. In an episode of Brewmasters, they researched how Egyptians made beer and there was some tie to bread in the process. Still, not saying it wont work, just saying that as a new home brewer, I would like to see what I can make first then experiment.

Too many times noobs wing it and fail to research and read and then they start 10 threads on how their beer isn't fermenting, carbing, etc. We've got a wealth of knowledge here. Take advantage of it.

 

[CourtHouseBrewing]

Wow... Is it just me or does JesseRC need to RDWHAHB and realize everyone learns and grows in different ways for different reasons. I didn’t need a March pump for my system but I got one because it’s a fun addition to the way I brew, not because I needed one or didn’t need one. I guess I’m just a newbie noob plundering my way through years of testosterone driven threads here. In search of what works for me, so I can modify it for my pleasure and enjoyment. I thought that’s why they call it a hobby.

 

[doctorgonzo79]

the filter-chamber is large enough to hold the full wort after mash while the spent grains are cleaned from the tun / boil unit? wort is then pumped back into the boil kettle free of grains? am i reading this right

 

[Xier]

JesseRC,
To each their own. I fancy myself as an experimenter first and a brewer second.

CourtHouseBrewing,
It is nothing to worry about. You know, I believe that no one ever sees themselves as a bad guy. We all just do things the way we think is best. Sometimes people ideas of what's best collide and cause misunderstanding.

Anyway, it is only the internet.

Doctorgonzo79,
If I am reading you correctly then the answer would be no. By wort, you do mean the grains and water, correct? The filter should only be large enough for the grains. Ofcourse that is to say, it should be large enough for the grains after they have swollen from mashing.

The grains shall reside solely in the filter-chamber. The liquid is moving, nothing else.

 

[tektonjp]

You seriously should try a simple brew first. Honestly. Really. If you have never worked with grain, seeing how it fills space, is filtered, etc, you have no real life experience to base your design ideas upon. As a house builder, I saw this over and over again with architects plans. Too much school without much understanding how wood works.

I think your design would greatly benefit from a few trial brews with BIAB and an immersion chiller. There is no extra time nor expense of doing so. Bags are dirt cheap. You are going to use a coil anyway. Get a feel for the process. You won't regret it.

 

[JuanMoore]

I see a lot of potential issues, and a few very real issues with this system.

So, I read through much of howtobrew.com and feel
that my system should actually be extremely efficient, one of the best around. (not to brag)

It allows for optimal lautering/sparging, with a continuous flow through the g/
Is anyone seeing any problems that I do not?

I'm not sure what efficiency you're referring to, but your lauter efficiency is certainly going to be low. You say it allows for optimal sparging, but you're using the full volume of water, so there's actually no sparge going on at all. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, since what you have is in many ways similar to a full volume BIAB system, which works well for many people, but you'll need to plan for lower efficiency.

Even with a very fine false bottom, there's a lot of smaller debris that makes it through the grain bed. Normally in recirculating systems this debris goes directly on top of the grain bed, and then gets filtered out by the grain bed. With your system it goes into the boil kettle first, which means there's a good chance that the heavier pieces could get trapped there even after recirculating the entire volume many times.

I also think that you're going to have serious hop utilization issues by having the hops in a separate vessel that isn't being heated. You might also have trouble getting it to a boil and keeping it there since your vessel B will be acting like a giant heat sink the entire time.

I think the copper coil mounted to the lid is a great idea. I have my heat exchange coil for my HERMS mounted to a lid myself. It is very handy, and I can use it to configure my system for maintaining temp or changing temp during the mash, or as an immersion chiller after the boil, or I can mount it in my HLT filled with ice water and pump the wort through the coil to chill. I would highly reccomend putting your return port in the pot rather than in the lid to give yourself similar flexibility and options. This would also give you the option of having a whirlpool return, which IMO is worth considering.

I guess my main question would be, if you're going to have the same drawbacks as a single vessel BIAB direct fired RIMS, why not just make it that type of simple system instead of a needlessly complicated 2 vessel system that has even more potential drawbacks? I'm not trying to discourage you at all, I just think your system could use some changes in order to make it more functional and/or efficient.

 

[Burgs]

I see a lot of potential issues, and a few very real issues with this system.

I'm not sure what efficiency you're referring to, but your lauter efficiency is certainly going to be low. You say it allows for optimal sparging, but you're using the full volume of water, so there's actually no sparge going on at all. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, since what you have is in many ways similar to a full volume BIAB system, which works well for many people, but you'll need to plan for lower efficiency.

Even with a very fine false bottom, there's a lot of smaller debris that makes it through the grain bed. Normally in recirculating systems this debris goes directly on top of the grain bed, and then gets filtered out by the grain bed. With your system it goes into the boil kettle first, which means there's a good chance that the heavier pieces could get trapped there even after recirculating the entire volume many times.

I also think that you're going to have serious hop utilization issues by having the hops in a separate vessel that isn't being heated. You might also have trouble getting it to a boil and keeping it there since your vessel B will be acting like a giant heat sink the entire time.

I think the copper coil mounted to the lid is a great idea. I have my heat exchange coil for my HERMS mounted to a lid myself. It is very handy, and I can use it to configure my system for maintaining temp or changing temp during the mash, or as an immersion chiller after the boil, or I can mount it in my HLT filled with ice water and pump the wort through the coil to chill. I would highly reccomend putting your return port in the pot rather than in the lid to give yourself similar flexibility and options. This would also give you the option of having a whirlpool return, which IMO is worth considering.

I guess my main question would be, if you're going to have the same drawbacks as a single vessel BIAB direct fired RIMS, why not just make it that type of simple system instead of a needlessly complicated 2 vessel system that has even more potential drawbacks? I'm not trying to discourage you at all, I just think your system could use some changes in order to make it more functional and/or efficient.

I agree completely. The second vessel, as it is designed right now, doesn't serve a purpose and will probably, in fact, cause issues.

If you are dead set on using the second vessel for something, I say use it as a hopback (p.s. this is what you keep referring to as "dry hopping" - but dry hopping is a process where you introduce the hops closer to serving time).

 

[JesseRC]

Xier, Courthouse..,

So now I'm a bad guy driving the testosterone threads? Way to keep the thread on task and not go personal. I apologized for the way I came across, but not for answering the OP's request that he wanted to know if HBT saw any issues with his idea. If you dont want to hear criticism (good or bad), then you shouldn't ask for it.

 

[tektonjp]

xier, courthouse..,

so now i'm a bad guy driving the testosterone threads? Way to keep the thread on task and not go personal. I apologized for the way i came across, but not for answering the op's request that he wanted to know if hbt saw any issues with his idea. If you dont want to hear criticism (good or bad), then you shouldn't ask for it.

+1

 

[surreal_trip]

xier, courthouse..,

so now i'm a bad guy driving the testosterone threads? Way to keep the thread on task and not go personal. I apologized for the way i came across, but not for answering the op's request that he wanted to know if hbt saw any issues with his idea. If you dont want to hear criticism (good or bad), then you shouldn't ask for it.

+2

 

[Xier]

This is as illogical as possible, I have been completely pacifistic toward you this entire time. I said people, as in myself included, never believe themselves to be the wrong one in a situation. I then further stated that the reason is because I don't think there is a wrong one. My point being that we just had opposing views on this subject.

Despite my repeated attempts at further explaining my motivation and views, you still seem to not be understanding that I am not seeking conflict with you, nor to brew a beer the "right" way.

Look, I know; you like beer, you like brewing, and you like doing it the way you are. That is perfectly fine with me. If you have suggestions for my design, great let me know. I do however plan on using my design as a base and building from there. If I wanted to do BIAB, I would not have posted a new thread on the subject as there are already ample guides detailing every aspect and problem that one may incur when doing such.

I like receiving criticism, with sources cited and reasons explained. I like hearing advice, and you can see I responded very positively to the advice I was receiving when I first posted. What I do not care for is having countless people telling me to just stop what I am doing and do it the right way.

Anyway, I still think that you have simply misunderstood me and am not at all upset with you personally. I am however getting frustrated repeating that I plan to do this using my way and having people keep telling me the way they think I really should be doing it.

So once again, dude, just relax and if you want to suggest modifications or additions to what I'm doing, that is cool. JuanMoore suggested doing a whirlpool and I am planning to adjust my system for that. I like ideas, I like change, I am not looking to copy someone else's setup. I have tried to make that clear.

So once again;

Damn, it is just the internet and I am just some guy in China. If I screw up my beer half the world away, it isn't going to hurt you.