SliverXZennon
Well-Known Member
Nope, always by hand good thought though... Once I get it all set up I'll get some pictures up.
MM2 Mill powered with Garage Door Opener?
- Thread starter mrstevenund
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
As a former garage door tech I can tell you caps generally blow after years of use. I am unsure if running the motor longer will cause it to fail sooner or not.
SliverXZennon
Well-Known Member
When you say years... do you mean the caps have years of life in them? Or years as in 10 years on/off?
My parents have had the same door lift motor for 20+ years and it's still going strong!
This kind of reminds me of windshield washer motors. They only have a actual lifespan of like 1 month. But that's only 2-3 seconds each time used and it takes years for them to fail.
slbradley01
Well-Known Member
Generally, capacitors don't blow due to age, although older caps are more prone to failure. In this instance, since they are a motor STARTING capacitors, repeated starts under load will cause failure. Shouldn't be a big problem with a grain mill as you generally only turn it on once, grind, then shut it off.
millstone
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Finally got to try out the new motor, did two brews on it. The first one was about 21lbs of grain, the second was about 19lbs of grain. My setup has an on/off switch, pilot light and a three way switch for forward and reverse. I also have one of those remote Xmas light controllers so I can start or stop the mill without having to be on top of the mill. *I also have a fan mounted on the motor side of the enclosure to help cool the motor. The garage motor ran a lot slower then the 1/2" HF drill I had been using, so I needed to adjust both mentally and for this additional time required to grind the grain. Both grain amounts took about 7 minutes to complete and the motor did not overheat, it ran until it was done. Motor was warm to getting hot and the capacitor was cool to the touch. Forgot to take a picture of the finished grind. The garage motor was very quiet compared to the HF drill. When using the drill, I needed ear protectors, with the garage motor I was able to carry on a conversation. Thanks to the OP, it was a fun project.
Tom
Tom
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johns
Well-Known Member
I have to say thats a sweet setup. is that an adjustable Schmidling mill?
Nice setup! Did you build the mill itself as well? From the picture, the mill frame appears to be made out of wood. My eyes playing tricks??
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millstone
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"I have to say thats a sweet setup. is that an adjustable Schmidling mill?"
No it's the original Monster Mill, bought it in 2007. and thanks for complement.
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"Nice setup! Did you build the mill itself as well? From the picture, the mill frame appears to be made out of wood. My eyes playing tricks??"
Looking at the pic it does look like all wood, but it's not. I had to raise the mill 1/2" for the two shafts to match so I use a piece of plywood to raise the mill. The grain shoot is all wood except for the white part, that's ridged foam that came from a computer shipping box. I cut the shape of the bottle on the top part of the foam so the bottle could rest and not wiggle off while the mill is running. I also put dowel pins on the plywood platform, one in front and two in the rear to keep the whole setup from sliding off the tub while running. Because I use a Xmass light control, I tend to do other things and not stand by the mill while it's running. Trying to keep the control box nice and small I used despard switches and pilot light, some stuff I had kept after rewiring my house. And thanks for the complement.
tom
No it's the original Monster Mill, bought it in 2007. and thanks for complement.
--------------
"Nice setup! Did you build the mill itself as well? From the picture, the mill frame appears to be made out of wood. My eyes playing tricks??"
Looking at the pic it does look like all wood, but it's not. I had to raise the mill 1/2" for the two shafts to match so I use a piece of plywood to raise the mill. The grain shoot is all wood except for the white part, that's ridged foam that came from a computer shipping box. I cut the shape of the bottle on the top part of the foam so the bottle could rest and not wiggle off while the mill is running. I also put dowel pins on the plywood platform, one in front and two in the rear to keep the whole setup from sliding off the tub while running. Because I use a Xmass light control, I tend to do other things and not stand by the mill while it's running. Trying to keep the control box nice and small I used despard switches and pilot light, some stuff I had kept after rewiring my house. And thanks for the complement.
tom
30Bones
Well-Known Member
Anyone have any new leads on cheap garage door openers? None on CL and a coworker gave me a 1/2 HP motor, but by the time I by sheaves it gets pretty bulky and spendy. This looks simple and compact.
Stealthcruiser
Well-Known Member
Is "Marion, Ia. " near any decent sized cities, that might have garage door installers?
That's who I called, and they said "come look in the scrap pile", as they haul off the old opener when they change them out.
I took the manager 2 small growlers of home brew, and told him:"Gimme call when they are empty, as I would like my growlers back"
I hauled off 3 identical openers, parted them out, and a Buddy used the findings to power his mill.
Which reminds me..........He owes me some beers...........
That's who I called, and they said "come look in the scrap pile", as they haul off the old opener when they change them out.
I took the manager 2 small growlers of home brew, and told him:"Gimme call when they are empty, as I would like my growlers back"
I hauled off 3 identical openers, parted them out, and a Buddy used the findings to power his mill.
Which reminds me..........He owes me some beers...........
30Bones
Well-Known Member
Yeah I could call the big door company, I am sure they just toss most of the old ones.
Stealthcruiser
Well-Known Member
I would bank on it!
They sell them for scrap!
They sell them for scrap!
Since this thread has surfaced again, I've got a question for anyone that used the Surplus Center garage door openers.
Did anyone do a build with an indirect drive, besides me? I wanted to keep the top surface as clutter free as possible to allow a cover to fit over it so I can use it for other purposes - Scale, and rolling cart for moving a pot of hot wort (it's a wheeled printer stand). So, I mounted my motor below, and used the sprocket for a chain drive to the mill. Worked great for a few uses, then the chain somehow jumped the drive sprocket and broke all the sheet metal screw posts on the gear case leaving the motor hanging by 1 end. There a pic of parts I used on the build back around page 4 or 5.
Since you can't fix molded plastic screw posts, I devised a new mount around the output shaft to support that end, and it's more solid than before. But, I did not trust the chain and sprocket any more, so I changed over to a toothed timing belt. And not a cheap change I might add. The toothed pulleys were around $25 each. Got it all fixed up, including making a new output shaft for the gear so it sticks out plenty for the timing pulley, and learned the hard way that rubber timing belts are not strong enough to handle the torque. It works, but without stretching the belt to ridiculous tension, it slips too much to be usable.
I'm tempted to go back to the chain and sprockets, with a guide of some nature to ensure it can't jump the sprocket again, but if anyone has a better idea I'd love to hear about it.
Here's the best pic I can find where you can see the drive chain, before it failed. The top sprocket has a cover that's not in place here.
Did anyone do a build with an indirect drive, besides me? I wanted to keep the top surface as clutter free as possible to allow a cover to fit over it so I can use it for other purposes - Scale, and rolling cart for moving a pot of hot wort (it's a wheeled printer stand). So, I mounted my motor below, and used the sprocket for a chain drive to the mill. Worked great for a few uses, then the chain somehow jumped the drive sprocket and broke all the sheet metal screw posts on the gear case leaving the motor hanging by 1 end. There a pic of parts I used on the build back around page 4 or 5.
Since you can't fix molded plastic screw posts, I devised a new mount around the output shaft to support that end, and it's more solid than before. But, I did not trust the chain and sprocket any more, so I changed over to a toothed timing belt. And not a cheap change I might add. The toothed pulleys were around $25 each. Got it all fixed up, including making a new output shaft for the gear so it sticks out plenty for the timing pulley, and learned the hard way that rubber timing belts are not strong enough to handle the torque. It works, but without stretching the belt to ridiculous tension, it slips too much to be usable.
I'm tempted to go back to the chain and sprockets, with a guide of some nature to ensure it can't jump the sprocket again, but if anyone has a better idea I'd love to hear about it.
Here's the best pic I can find where you can see the drive chain, before it failed. The top sprocket has a cover that's not in place here.
wilconrad
Well-Known Member
If you want to mount the motor under the table, couldn't you just mount the mill under the table too and go to a direct drive and avoid all the pulleys/chains/belts? My direct drive setup is still going strong, no issues.
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Yes, I could have but there are numerous reasons I chose not to go that route.
Stealthcruiser
Well-Known Member
Hmmm.........Such as ?
You wanted it "clutter free", and the mill under the table would "free up some clutter".
Hmmm.........Such as ?
You wanted it "clutter free", and the mill under the table would "free up some clutter".
I'm guessing the big one would be since he is using a printer cart that mounting it below would mean you could no longer fit a (decent sized standard)bucket under there to collect the grain
Ok, since everyone seems to be wanting to point out all the reasons I should have done it differently....
Clutter free means that the top of the table has the mill on it, and nothing else. It stands less than 3" tall. No motor/drill, fans, boxes, etc. Makes for a much neater design, and allows me to have a cover over it to keep out dust & dirt and be a flat surface when I'm not milling, and that cover is not 6 or 8 inches higher.
With the mill on top, accessing the hopper screws, and gap adjusters is painfully easy. Underneath would be significantly more inconvenient. And my receiving bucket slides into a captive ring that keeps it in position with no gap whatsoever. The only dust I get comes out of the hopper at the end.
I use that flat surface of the top primarily to support my scale, and whatever bin I'm measuring grain from, side by side. Once I finish weighing out my grains, I put the scale back into a compartment under the milled grain receiving bucket, open the lid, mount the hopper (that stores under the motor) click the switch and mill the grain. When I'm done, I remove the hopper and close the lid, and roll it out of the way. The picture below should make this pretty obvious, although it was not finished at that point. The lid is not shown, the motor cover/switch is missing, and it's not painted. You can see the motor cover and paint in the earlier picture.
Bonus uses I'd not thought of in advance:
When I finish my boil I lift the kettle onto it, roll it over in front of my sink, and hook up the chiller. Once chilled I drain into a carboy. This way I only have to lift the hot wort about 18" of total distance. Once I plumb water to the "brewing tree" I won't need to do this anymore. The lid is covered with Formica, and I put a towel on it in case of any spills or splashing.
It also supports my bottle washing station (large bin) while in use. This connects to my RIMS & pump.
And, it provides a place to store several items on top when I'm not brewing to keep things consolidated, such as the bottle washing station, and buckets/carboys.
So, getting back to my original question, has anyone else used this motor with an indirect drive?
At this point I'm pretty sure I'll go back to the chain drive and add a guide so it can't jump on the sprocket, and with near zero play. I think part of the problem was slight misalignment between the sprockets, a little play, and a little wobble of the welded sprocket. With the new output shaft I made I can align it perfectly, and it will turn true as well.
And before anyone points it out, no the tension pulling down is not an issue. This mill has roller bearings, and I have a pillow bearing right at the sprocket to support it against that downward pull.
After the original sprocket failure, I jumped on the timing belt/pulley idea as I use them on several other business related things I've built, but none of them have any measurable torque. That is the downfall of this use, and I'll know better for future projects.
An additional bonus to indirect drive - I used a bigger sprocket on the mill, and increased the RPM from 110 to 145 (or higher).
Clutter free means that the top of the table has the mill on it, and nothing else. It stands less than 3" tall. No motor/drill, fans, boxes, etc. Makes for a much neater design, and allows me to have a cover over it to keep out dust & dirt and be a flat surface when I'm not milling, and that cover is not 6 or 8 inches higher.
With the mill on top, accessing the hopper screws, and gap adjusters is painfully easy. Underneath would be significantly more inconvenient. And my receiving bucket slides into a captive ring that keeps it in position with no gap whatsoever. The only dust I get comes out of the hopper at the end.
I use that flat surface of the top primarily to support my scale, and whatever bin I'm measuring grain from, side by side. Once I finish weighing out my grains, I put the scale back into a compartment under the milled grain receiving bucket, open the lid, mount the hopper (that stores under the motor) click the switch and mill the grain. When I'm done, I remove the hopper and close the lid, and roll it out of the way. The picture below should make this pretty obvious, although it was not finished at that point. The lid is not shown, the motor cover/switch is missing, and it's not painted. You can see the motor cover and paint in the earlier picture.
Bonus uses I'd not thought of in advance:
When I finish my boil I lift the kettle onto it, roll it over in front of my sink, and hook up the chiller. Once chilled I drain into a carboy. This way I only have to lift the hot wort about 18" of total distance. Once I plumb water to the "brewing tree" I won't need to do this anymore. The lid is covered with Formica, and I put a towel on it in case of any spills or splashing.
It also supports my bottle washing station (large bin) while in use. This connects to my RIMS & pump.
And, it provides a place to store several items on top when I'm not brewing to keep things consolidated, such as the bottle washing station, and buckets/carboys.
So, getting back to my original question, has anyone else used this motor with an indirect drive?
At this point I'm pretty sure I'll go back to the chain drive and add a guide so it can't jump on the sprocket, and with near zero play. I think part of the problem was slight misalignment between the sprockets, a little play, and a little wobble of the welded sprocket. With the new output shaft I made I can align it perfectly, and it will turn true as well.
And before anyone points it out, no the tension pulling down is not an issue. This mill has roller bearings, and I have a pillow bearing right at the sprocket to support it against that downward pull.
After the original sprocket failure, I jumped on the timing belt/pulley idea as I use them on several other business related things I've built, but none of them have any measurable torque. That is the downfall of this use, and I'll know better for future projects.
An additional bonus to indirect drive - I used a bigger sprocket on the mill, and increased the RPM from 110 to 145 (or higher).
30Bones
Well-Known Member
Friend gave me a gear driven opener. Anyone use this? Seems to be possibly a simpler setup and maybe less plastic parts in the drive. I haven't tore into it yet, just curious if anyone has any info or ideas.
Stealthcruiser
Well-Known Member
No ideas, without seeing the "business end".
Is that a "screw drive" opener?
If so, it may limit your options, as it only has to spin the screw, to lift the door.
What is the actual "drive"..........Belt driven?
Is that a "screw drive" opener?
If so, it may limit your options, as it only has to spin the screw, to lift the door.
What is the actual "drive"..........Belt driven?
30Bones
Well-Known Member
The screw is the drive. It's a direct drive, no belts or gears that I can see.
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30Bones
Well-Known Member
How would it go any faster than any other door opener motor. Just has more torque and is smoother are the claims when used in its original manor
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30Bones
Well-Known Member
Yes the screw is worthless. But it's a direct drive to the mill with lovejoy couplers and the way I look at it, that's a good thing.
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The_Bishop
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Why ask questions if you don't want to hear the answers?
The screw drive *is* the gear reduction in the screw-type garage door opener. Without the screw drive, the motor will both spin the mill to fast and not have enough torque.
The screw drive *is* the gear reduction in the screw-type garage door opener. Without the screw drive, the motor will both spin the mill to fast and not have enough torque.
30Bones
Well-Known Member
When did I not like the answers? I have yet to even power the unit up, so I am curious if anyone here has used one. If it doesn't work, I am out zero dollars. I also have a large/heavy 1750rpm 1/2hp motor I could use, but sheaves have went up too much in price for me to justify at this point.
OP
OP
mrstevenund
Well-Known Member
30Bones - I have a Genie screw drive motor I'm currently working with. I don't know the RPM, but I know it is way too fast to run my MM2. You will still need a way to reduce speed / increase torque with a screw drive motor. In the intended application, the screw itself performs the task.
In chain drive motors (and presumably belt drives too), there is typically a plastic worm gear that drives a circular ("normal") gear attached to the shaft of the chain sprocket. See http://www.surpluscenter.com/110-RP...EARMOTOR/edp_no=38131/shop.axd/ProductDetails. The white gear meshes with the worm gear, cased in black coming directly off the motor. The white gear is on the same shaft that spins the chain sprocket.
In screw drive openers, this worm gear is the equivalent of the ~8ft screw.
In chain drive motors (and presumably belt drives too), there is typically a plastic worm gear that drives a circular ("normal") gear attached to the shaft of the chain sprocket. See http://www.surpluscenter.com/110-RP...EARMOTOR/edp_no=38131/shop.axd/ProductDetails. The white gear meshes with the worm gear, cased in black coming directly off the motor. The white gear is on the same shaft that spins the chain sprocket.
In screw drive openers, this worm gear is the equivalent of the ~8ft screw.
That was the item that started this thread. I got excited that they had more, as the black plastic screw mounts on mine all broke off the second time I used it. I've since repaired it, but worry it may fail again. Dang, I could have used a spare.
oopsie, I see you are the OP..... guess you knew this.
