Mixed Brewing Success - Some Basic Questions

[jvb]

Hi Folks.
I'm new to this site. I started brewing a couple of years ago and had some pretty good batches. All of my beers have used malt extracts, some grain additions, and dry yeasts. Unfortunately, I had two batches that were undrinkable, which kind of dampened my enthusiasm. I think my problem with the bad batches had to do with recipes that were a little vague and failure on my part to use correct procedures (one was a lager, which I think went south during fermentation).

Long story short - I pushed the reset button and ordered a couple of Midwest Brewing Supplies "Beer, Simply Beer" kits (no specialty grains). Before starting, I wanted to get some feedback on some basic questions:

• Should I boil the wort covered or uncovered? It seems like I lose a lot of wort volume if the pot is uncovered due to boil-off.
• Should I add hop pellets directly into the wort or should I put them in a muslin bag? If I don't put the hops in a bag, do I need to strain the wort prior to fermentation?
• Should I always strain the wort prior to fermentation or are the instances where I wouldn't want to?
• Do I need to hydrate dry yeast before adding to the wort? If so, what procedure should I use?
• I've been using a glass carboy for fermentation and have never used secondary fermentation although it seems like a lot of recipes call for it. I picked up a 6.5 gallon bucket fermenter and I was going to add a spigot to the bottom of the bucket to aid in transfer to the secondary fermenter. If I do this, how far off the bottom of the bucket should I place the spigot? When transferring the beer from primary to secondary, should the transfer hose be close to the bottom of the secondary fermenter or would it be ok to terminate the hose at the top of the secondary fermenter?

Appreciate your input!
Thanks,
Jim

 

[gunhaus]

I'll take a stab (And probably will get it wrong)
1 UN-covered
2 directly skip the bag
3 don't strain
4 don't hydrate
5 skip the secondary

CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN - control temp if you can - relax - keep at it, you had success then it went south - often that means you got a little lax somewhere. It is beer simple beer - treat it as such, pay attention to GOOD SOUND BASIC steps and see what happens.

Tag - your it if i got anything wrong!

 

[MGamber]

Hi Folks.
I'm new to this site. I started brewing a couple of years ago and had some pretty good batches. All of my beers have used malt extracts, some grain additions, and dry yeasts. Unfortunately, I had two batches that were undrinkable, which kind of dampened my enthusiasm. I think my problem with the bad batches had to do with recipes that were a little vague and failure on my part to use correct procedures (one was a lager, which I think went south during fermentation).

Long story short - I pushed the reset button and ordered a couple of Midwest Brewing Supplies "Beer, Simply Beer" kits (no specialty grains). Before starting, I wanted to get some feedback on some basic questions:

• Should I boil the wort covered or uncovered? It seems like I lose a lot of wort volume if the pot is uncovered due to boil-off.
• Should I add hop pellets directly into the wort or should I put them in a muslin bag? If I don't put the hops in a bag, do I need to strain the wort prior to fermentation?
• Should I always strain the wort prior to fermentation or are the instances where I wouldn't want to?
• Do I need to hydrate dry yeast before adding to the wort? If so, what procedure should I use?
• I've been using a glass carboy for fermentation and have never used secondary fermentation although it seems like a lot of recipes call for it. I picked up a 6.5 gallon bucket fermenter and I was going to add a spigot to the bottom of the bucket to aid in transfer to the secondary fermenter. If I do this, how far off the bottom of the bucket should I place the spigot? When transferring the beer from primary to secondary, should the transfer hose be close to the bottom of the secondary fermenter or would it be ok to terminate the hose at the top of the secondary fermenter?

Appreciate your input!
Thanks,
Jim

I'm pretty sure we've all made a bad beer or two. It happens. I did a big equipment upgrade a couple months ago and spent almost a month making bad beer but once I dialed everything in, it was good again. In three years of brewing I've poured out maybe 6 batches and it's disheartening to where I didn't brew for 6 months at one point but I learned something from each drain pour and that's the important part. Per your questions:

Boil uncovered, definitely, to prevent a problem with DMS. brulosophy.com demonstrated there's no different between covered and uncovered because the lid gets lifted by steam and pressure during the boil but, unless you have a hard time getting the wort to a boil uncovered, it's better to be safe than sorry.

Toss the hops right in. If you get to using "specialty" equipment like a plate chiller where hops can really screw things up, you'll probably also have a pump to whirlpool the hops into the center of the kettle. Either way, no need to bag them.

There's no need to strain the wort.

No need to rehydrate the yeast. A lot of the cells die off by pitching without hydrating them but there billions and billions more than you need in a packet of dry yeast so it's not a concern.

No need for a secondary. I do fermentation and everything else in 5 gallon corny kegs and I rarely use a secondary. Most of the time I put the fermentation keg on tap, blow out a pint or two of sludge and it's all good. The idea is to prevent exposure to air as much as possible and every transfer from one container to another increases the odds of oxidizing your beer.

 

[jvb]

I started using a copper coil wort chiller, which does a good job of cooling the wort quickly. Fermentation temperature is right around 70 degrees F. In regards to fermentation activity, my experience has been that it really seems to drop off to nothing by day 5. The Midwest instructions specify 1-2 weeks primary and 1-2 weeks secondary. My understanding is the secondary fermentation mostly reduces cloudiness and sedimentation. How long are you leaving basic ale recipes in fermentation if not using a secondary?

 

[MGamber]

I started using a copper coil wort chiller, which does a good job of cooling the wort quickly. Fermentation temperature is right around 70 degrees F. In regards to fermentation activity, my experience has been that it really seems to drop off to nothing by day 5. The Midwest instructions specify 1-2 weeks primary and 1-2 weeks secondary. My understanding is the secondary fermentation mostly reduces cloudiness and sedimentation. How long are you leaving basic ale recipes in fermentation if not using a secondary?

It's called a "secondary fermentation" but it's actually just leaving the bulk of yeast, trub and hops behind in the fermenter, no real fermentation takes place. When the beer in the fermentor is where you want it via a hydrometer, you can instead transfer to a bottling bucket, add the priming sugar and bottle it. Carbonating fermentation will leave some yeast in the bottle and putting them in the fridge will cause that to drop to the bottom so no point to a secondary unless you have fruit or spices to add.

The important parts are, as mentioned, make sure everything is clean and everything that touches the beer after the boil is sanitized. Also, make sure the siphon and whatever you use to bottle doesn't have bubbles that add air to the beer. When you transfer to the bottling bucket, take your time and don't splash anything. When bottling, a little air in the head space of the bottle is ok, the yeast and cap will consume it while fermenting in the bottle, but try not to splash it too much in the bottle as you're filling it. Also, try to dial in a process that yields good beer and don't overthink it. That was always my problem. I have a friend who makes great beer every time and his catch phrase is "Close enough".

 

[RM-MN]

Don't put a spigot on your fermenter. If you do, at some point in the future it will cost you a batch of beer when you have a leak or break off the spigot. The spigots are pretty fragile to begin with and the addition of the threads for the nut that holds them into the bucket creates a weaker area yet.

 

[cactusgarrett]

1 UN-covered
2 directly skip the bag
3 don't strain
4 don't hydrate
5 skip the secondary

Each one could have it's own thread and go down a deep rabbit hole, but I agree with every answer.
If you're not using a kit, and you're cobbling your own recipe together, stick with typical style recipes. That should help in not getting a dumper (process aside).

Fermentation temperature is right around 70 degrees F.

One area of improvement here: 70°F isn't bad (depending on yeast strain), but you should assume the beer is 3-5°F warmer than ambient, as fermentation is an exothermic endeavor. Bringing them temp down could help prevent off flavors and get "cleaner" flavors from ale yeasts - if that's what you're going for. Ignore this comment if you're actually measuring the temp of the carboy from the inside or via an insulated probe on the exterior wall (isolated from ambient air temp).

 

[IslandLizard]

Unfortunately, I had two batches that were undrinkable, which kind of dampened my enthusiasm. I think my problem with the bad batches had to do with recipes that were a little vague and failure on my part to use correct procedures (one was a lager, which I think went south during fermentation).

Did you happen to have an infection in those?

Even with unproven, somewhat shaky recipes, the result should still be beer. Maybe not as good as envisioned at some point, but undrinkable is a large step away from that.

I'm with @gunhaus and the others, brewing beer is not that difficult, follow the advice they gave you.

CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN - control temp if you can

And good sanitation!
Those are probably among the most important to get good beer.

What sanitizer are you using?

You don't need to boil very vigorously, a good simmer (rippling on the surface) is plenty. Make sure you don't scorch the wort with high localized heat, especially during heating to get to the boil and when adding the extracts. Stir well and often until the extracts are completely dissolved! You can usually see evidence of scorching when you've got a sticky dark brown spot on the bottom of your kettle.

Are you boiling about half the volume and then top up with water?

 

[IslandLizard]

Your water may need some attention. Municipal or well? Do you treat it?

 

[mongoose33]

Don't put a spigot on your fermenter. If you do, at some point in the future it will cost you a batch of beer when you have a leak or break off the spigot. The spigots are pretty fragile to begin with and the addition of the threads for the nut that holds them into the bucket creates a weaker area yet.

I'm going to offer the other point of view. I think spigots are nearly indispensable. They're more convenient by a huge margin, and if someone's is leaking, then it's almost certainly a process error, not the spigot's fault.

When I started I had a bigmouth bubbler fermenter, no spigot. Bought another with a spigot to see if I'd like it. I did so much that I bought a spigot and drilled a hole in the original fermenter to install it.

Additional fermenters all had spigots; had 5 at one point.

The way around the spigot leaking is to test before you put beer in the fermenter. A perfect time to do this is during the boil. I'd Star-San the inside of the fermenter as well as the lid, and have the spigot in a bucket of Star-San. I'd install it, wipe down the outside, and pour abut 1/2-1 gallon Star-San inside. I'd tilt the fermenter so the liquid covered the spigot area, and then wait to see if I had a leak. Once or twice I did have a small leak, re-installed it, tested again, leak gone.

Out of about...oh, 45-50 batches using this approach, only twice did I have anything about which to worry, and it was easily fixed.

No way I'd go back to a system not using a spigot.

 

[mongoose33]

I was going to add a spigot to the bottom of the bucket to aid in transfer to the secondary fermenter. If I do this, how far off the bottom of the bucket should I place the spigot? When transferring the beer from primary to secondary, should the transfer hose be close to the bottom of the secondary fermenter or would it be ok to terminate the hose at the top of the secondary fermenter?
Appreciate your input!
Thanks,
Jim

First, don't use a secondary. It's a leftover piece of advice from 20 years ago when maybe getting the beer off the yeast might have been important. Things have changed.

Second, here's a pic showing a spigot on my Bigmouth Bubbler fermenter. As you can see, the important thing is to position it above the trub layer. Position the spigot so the bottom of the inside opening of the spigot is about 2" above the bottom. That will let you get virtually all the beer and none of the trub.

You will have a thin layer of trub inside the interior tube of the spigot; I always just pour off half a cup or so to clear that, then into whatever I'm using to package (bottling bucket, keg, whatever).

 

[jvb]

Each one could have it's own thread and go down a deep rabbit hole, but I agree with every answer.
If you're not using a kit, and you're cobbling your own recipe together, stick with typical style recipes. That should help in not getting a dumper (process aside).


One area of improvement here: 70°F isn't bad (depending on yeast strain), but you should assume the beer is 3-5°F warmer than ambient, as fermentation is an exothermic endeavor. Bringing them temp down could help prevent off flavors and get "cleaner" flavors from ale yeasts - if that's what you're going for. Ignore this comment if you're actually measuring the temp of the carboy from the inside or via an insulated probe on the exterior wall (isolated from ambient air temp).

70°F is my average room temperature. It probably fluctuates between 67 and 72 this time of year. I could probably get it to be a little cooler in an unused bedroom.

 

[jvb]

Did you happen to have an infection in those?

Even with unproven, somewhat shaky recipes, the result should still be beer. Maybe not as good as envisioned at some point, but undrinkable is a large step away from that.

I'm with @gunhaus and the others, brewing beer is not that difficult, follow the advice they gave you.


And good sanitation!
Those are probably among the most important to get good beer.

What sanitizer are you using?

You don't need to boil very vigorously, a good simmer (rippling on the surface) is plenty. Make sure you don't scorch the wort with high localized heat, especially during heating to get to the boil and when adding the extracts. Stir well and often until the extracts are completely dissolved! You can usually see evidence of scorching when you've got a sticky dark brown spot on the bottom of your kettle.

Are you boiling about half the volume and then top up with water?

I clean my equipment and bottles with LD Carlson's EZ Clean and sanitize everything with StarSan

Half volume sounds about right at the start of the boil. I'm going to measure the amount of boil-off on the next batch.

 

[jvb]

Your water may need some attention. Municipal or well? Do you treat it?

I'm using treated well water. Other than a trace of sodium from the softener, the water is pretty good. I may give spring water a shot next time around.

 

[IslandLizard]

70°F is my average room temperature. It probably fluctuates between 67 and 72 this time of year. I could probably get it to be a little cooler in an unused bedroom.

Definitely try to control the temps a bit more, 64-66F is a good starting temp at the beginning for many ale yeasts. Fermentation is exothermic, it generates heat, so a way to cool the fermenter would be advantageous. Look at "swamp cooling," or a water jacket by putting the fermenter in a tub with cold water, adding a few frozen water bottle each day, etc. Toward the end when things have slowed down, you can let it free rise to finish out.

 

[IslandLizard]

I clean my equipment and bottles with LD Carlson's EZ Clean and sanitize everything with StarSan

Half volume sounds about right at the start of the boil. I'm going to measure the amount of boil-off on the next batch.

Oxiclean works well too. Or homemade PBW.
Starsan, good!

Since you only boil half the water (volume), consider adding only half the extract at the beginning of the boil. Then add the remainder after flameout. Extracts only need to be pasteurized (@170F for 10' or so).

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm using treated well water. Other than a trace of sodium from the softener, the water is pretty good. I may give spring water a shot next time around.

OK, there maybe some minerals left in there. Make sure there is no iron or manganese left in it.

Water softener water is usually unsuitable for brewing. Do you know how much sodium it contains after the ion exchanger? There's usually high alkalinity too, although it tastes good, doesn't mean it's good brewing water, although when extract brewing it's not as critical.

Using RO water would be excellent, especially for extracts. You could fill your own containers at many supermarkets and Walmart for ~$0.39 a gallon. If you're also serious about drinking water quality, perhaps invest in a small RO system. They can be had for $100-200. We have a forum sponsor Buckeye Hydro they're worth checking out.

Spring water is not regulated, it may be better or worse than what comes from your well. RO would be much better, a blank slate.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I'll second what Island Lizard said about your water. Although most water is suitable for extract brewing, treated well water is a potential concern. Give RO water a try.

 

[applescrap]

Awesome you reached out Jim. Some amazing minds have answered your questions but I want to take this a little different route.

You and others here could be overcomplicating this from a birdseye view. See that extract doesnt essentially, theoretically, need boiled at all. It was created by wort being evaporated to powder. In theory its sanitized. That said its not the worst practice to pasteurize it. Even all grain beers can be made without a boil. The hops are added in the form of a tea. This actually is fairly complicated I have found, and the time saved wasnt great.

Keeping all this in mind, free yourself up a little to make beer. A good place to start is the basic brewing radio 15 minute pale ales. The reviews of this are great and I would love to make this my pipeline but extract is a little to pricey for me. Essentially a smaller volume of water is used (only 15 min boil), and iirc crystal 40 is steeped at flame on. At 165 the crystal grain is pulled and at first boil hops are added. Then they are added at 10 and 5 and flameout or something like that. The wort is chilled, pitch the dry yeast straight in and voilla.

Thats it! Take these tips above, they are great, but ultimately make beer. If I am correct you can top up for more volume, no problem. In fact I think palmers recipes, a lot of them, are partial boils.

However you choose to make these beers, no worries, just throw dry yeast in, put hops in on a schedule. Chill the beer to 70 or under, ideally matching yeast temp, CLEAN and sanitize fermenter and thats it. Dont want to over simplify it but thats how it is done. For carbonation I know many use bulk sugar priming, but priming each bottle with the correct amount and a sanitized funnel seems exact and quick enough for me and good for a new brewer. That and my buddy always seems to f up his bulk priming somehow. I could be wrong here but I seriously doubt it. I bottled in 2 and 1 liter pet because I am lazy and I think they are the best option. I dont want to undersimplify all this, but with the right mindset it will ease the mind. Best of luck and have fun with it.

 

[jvb]

Awesome you reached out Jim. Some amazing minds have answered your questions but I want to take this a little different route.

You and others here could be overcomplicating this from a birdseye view. See that extract doesnt essentially, theoretically, need boiled at all. It was created by wort being evaporated to powder. In theory its sanitized. That said its not the worst practice to pasteurize it. Even all grain beers can be made without a boil. The hops are added in the form of a tea. This actually is fairly complicated I have found, and the time saved wasnt great.

Keeping all this in mind, free yourself up a little to make beer. A good place to start is the basic brewing radio 15 minute pale ales. The reviews of this are great and I would love to make this my pipeline but extract is a little to pricey for me. Essentially a smaller volume of water is used (only 15 min boil), and iirc crystal 40 is steeped at flame on. At 165 the crystal grain is pulled and at first boil hops are added. Then they are added at 10 and 5 and flameout or something like that. The wort is chilled, pitch the dry yeast straight in and voilla.

Thats it! Take these tips above, they are great, but ultimately make beer. If I am correct you can top up for more volume, no problem. In fact I think palmers recipes, a lot of them, are partial boils.

However you choose to make these beers, no worries, just throw dry yeast in, put hops in on a schedule. Chill the beer to 70 or under, ideally matching yeast temp, CLEAN and sanitize fermenter and thats it. Dont want to over simplify it but thats how it is done. For carbonation I know many use bulk sugar priming, but priming each bottle with the correct amount and a sanitized funnel seems exact and quick enough for me and good for a new brewer. That and my buddy always seems to f up his bulk priming somehow. I could be wrong here but I seriously doubt it. I bottled in 2 and 1 liter pet because I am lazy and I think they are the best option. I dont want to undersimplify all this, but with the right mindset it will ease the mind. Best of luck and have fun with it.

 

[jvb]

Thanks for all of the tips. Watched a couple of the basic brewing videos which really helped put things in perspective. I plan to brew a basic IPA once my ingredients arrive.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Many people recommend reverse-osmosis (RO) water for extract brewing. The logic is that the extract already contains plenty of minerals from the original water source, so using tap water only adds to the existing quantities of minerals, and can give you too much in the end product.

 

[Tagobolts]

It's called a "secondary fermentation" but it's actually just leaving the bulk of yeast, trub and hops behind in the fermenter, no real fermentation takes place. When the beer in the fermentor is where you want it via a hydrometer, you can instead transfer to a bottling bucket, add the priming sugar and bottle it. Carbonating fermentation will leave some yeast in the bottle and putting them in the fridge will cause that to drop to the bottom so no point to a secondary unless you have fruit or spices to add.

The important parts are, as mentioned, make sure everything is clean and everything that touches the beer after the boil is sanitized. Also, make sure the siphon and whatever you use to bottle doesn't have bubbles that add air to the beer. When you transfer to the bottling bucket, take your time and don't splash anything. When bottling, a little air in the head space of the bottle is ok, the yeast and cap will consume it while fermenting in the bottle, but try not to splash it too much in the bottle as you're filling it. Also, try to dial in a process that yields good beer and don't overthink it. That was always my problem. I have a friend who makes great beer every time and his catch phrase is "Close enough".

I have a question in regards to going straight to a bottling bucket and no point in secondary fermentaion. I have a 6.5 G carboy and a 5G carboy. It has been a while since brewing but before I would mark a 5G line on the 6.5G carboy, fill to there and ferment, then move to the 5G. Is that to much air/headspace on the 5G? If the secondary fermentation is not needed could I do a 10 Gallon batch, put say 4.5G in the 5G carboy and the rest in the other and be ok until bottling/kegging?

 

[applescrap]

Bump, anyone use carboys and can answer this? The general thought is no secondary, but that is still being debated. While generally unnecessary and has the risk of oxidation and contamination, the secondary might do a lot to refine the beer that last little bit. I see it making a comeback and it likely has merits. Yes, its my understanding, very little headspace for secondary. As for fermenting in carboys I cant help, but you 10g plan seems doable. People who use them use a tube somehow.

 

[chickypad]

I have a question in regards to going straight to a bottling bucket and no point in secondary fermentaion. I have a 6.5 G carboy and a 5G carboy. It has been a while since brewing but before I would mark a 5G line on the 6.5G carboy, fill to there and ferment, then move to the 5G. Is that to much air/headspace on the 5G? If the secondary fermentation is not needed could I do a 10 Gallon batch, put say 4.5G in the 5G carboy and the rest in the other and be ok until bottling/kegging?

If you're talking about 10 gals post boil you can probably fit but it will be tight and I would rig good wide blow off tubes that won't clog. I don't see you getting 10 gals finished though. You're going to lose at least a gallon likely more in trub, to get a full 10 gals in kegs I used to aim for about 11.5 gals post boil.