Missing that certain something - body, mouthfeel

[mummasan]

I'm going to brew an amber that uses Maris Otter as a base malt. I plan to do a protein rest at 130-133 for 15 minutes in an attempt to add some body to my beer.

Recently, my beers have lacked fullness and body and I'm going to try the protein rest to add an extra dimension to my finished beer. I've tried some other techniques and ingredients to add this missing element but nothing has quite worked right.

I'm pretty good at making dry beers and sweet/malty beers, but I think I need to experiment with step mashes to find that missing piece. Right now, I'm going to drink Deschutes The Abyss 2009 Reserve for inspiration.

:rockin:

 

[Yooper]

Actually, I think that doing a protein rest with maris otter will have the opposite effect that you hope. I think it will make it less full bodied, and thinner in body.

Why not try a single mash infusion at a higher temperature? Like 158 to be really "thick" bodied.

You mentioned that your sweet/malty beers are good, though, so I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

+ what Yooper said. You don't need a step mash to add body to your beer.

 

[hlumbard]

so in general the higher the rest the more mouthfeel? Is that because you're making non fermentable sugars?

 

[mummasan]

I make ok beer. The problem is when I drink a great beer like Aventinus or Adam I realize that my beers are missing something - an extra degree of complexity. I call it mouthfeel or body. So I'll try a 15 minute protein rest. Kaiser indicates that a rest at 133 can help develop body even in highly modified malts and Bob says that a short protein rest can increase head retention eliminating the need to buy specialty grains that promote head retention.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I make ok beer. The problem is when I drink a great beer like Aventinus or Adam I realize that my beers are missing something - an extra degree of complexity. I call it mouthfeel or body. So I'll try a 15 minute protein rest. Kaiser indicates that a rest at 133 can help develop body even in highly modified malts and Bob says that a short protein rest can increase head retention eliminating the need to buy specialty grains that promote head retention.

It's your call of course, but a protein rest is not going to add body to your beer using this malt. Kai is probably using less modified malt, I'd guess. Don't believe us? Try Palmer then:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-4.html

In fact, using a protein rest on fully modified malts tends to remove most of the body of a beer, leaving it thin and watery. Most base malt in use in the world today is fully modified. Less modified malts are often available from German maltsters. Brewers have reported fuller, maltier flavors from malts that are less modified and make use of this rest.

Maris Otter is very well modified malt, BTW.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Okay, so since you mentioned Adam, I e-mailed Alan Sprints of Hair of the Dog to ask him what he thought.

So, here's what he says, which does contradict me, so I admit my possible error.

It is hard to avoid maltiness when you use 60lb to make a 10gal batch. A short protein rest may help, especially with under modified malt. I use long boils, 3 hrs+ and feel it creates a thicker mouth feel.

This is for a high gravity beer though, so take that into account.

Anyway, hope this helps.

 

[KevinW]

60lbs of grain for a 10 gallon batch? Wow, that is a BIG beer!

I kind of agree about the protein rest actually thinning the beer as the rule of thumb for less modified malts, at least from what I have read.

Higher mash temps and wheat, oat, or other "head enriching" additions are a better choice are they not?

I have been leaning towards making a very "chewy" beer myself so I am curious!

 

[mummasan]

First of all, 60lbs for a 10 gallon batch! Wow - no wonder it is so expensive. Secondly, he indicates a long boil may add that missing mouthfeel or body to a beer. I just tapped a wheat beer that I boiled for 90 minutes, and it has a rounded fullness to it that has been missing in my other beers. Instead of doing a protein rest with this next batch, maybe I'll boil a bit longer and see what that does.

Thanks for emailing the Hair of the Dog guy.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

No problem. Glad to help.

 

[pjj2ba]

I'm an advocate for step mashes, but it depends on the grain. If I use a lot of pils malt, then I do a p-rest. If I use a pale malt I'll skip it (but will still do a two step, 150 ish then 160 ish). I've been experimenting with mashing-in pale malt at 125 and then immediately ramping up to my initial saccharification temp. These results aren't in yet.

 

[Hannable1975]

bump for results of pjj2ba's experiment . . .

 

[Pivovar_Koucky]

Aventinus is a weizenbock with an original gravity of 18.5 Plato. That'll give you some mouthfull feel.

 

[bctdi]

funny this thread came up since I seem to be having the same problem.My beers seem to be missing the depth on the malt side that the commercial beers seem to have.I haven`t done a 90 minute boil yet, so next brew I will start.My pre-boil gravities seem a little lower than planned, but my post boil gravities come out correct...I boil off a lot though and compensate for that by starting with 8 gallons to end up with 5.5 gallons in the fermentor.I think maybe I`m boiling too vigorously ....so next brew I`m going to try using more malt to hit my pre-boil gravity, then do a 90 minute boil, but a much less vigorous boil.Also I`ve never done a mashout....so I plan on doing a mashout as well.Just curious if the OP was doing any of the same things I was and coming up with less malt depth because of it.It seems that I read somewhere that more boil off evaporation will concentrate the wort more , but doesn`t have quite the same effect as starting out with the correct amount of malt to hit your preboil gravity to begin with.Maybe it was on one of the brew strong episodes, but can`t remember exactly.

 

[pjj2ba]

bump for results of pjj2ba's experiment . . .

I had to go back and check my recipes to see which beers I mashed which way. Nothing conclusive yet. I've been testing too many variable at once, which as a scientist I should know better, but I just can drink that much beer.

Anyway, I can say that mashing in at 125F (mostly pale malt) and then immediately adding heat to get it up to 153 F (in about 20 min.) did not result in a watery beer. I can't say it added more body over skipping this step. This was for an IPA and I also tried a new hopback technique, which I did not like the results of and kind threw the whole flavor profile off.

I haven't brewed many ales in the past couple of months (except Alts and Kolsch with pils malts which I always step mash). I do have a porter about ready to keg, where I skipped the p-rest, but did do a 2-step saccharification (Pale malts). Mashed at 145 for 20 min. and then 20 min, at 158. I use this schedule (w/ a p-rest) when I'm brewing an Ofest or Helles with a lot of pils malt and it gives a good malty profile with lots of body