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British Golden Ale Miraculix Best - Classic English Ale

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Many small (1 Pt. to 1 Qt.?) recipes for Invert Sugar call for adding a slice of lemon, but many claim that this imparts an odd flavor which is not present within commercial Invert Sugars. Would 1/2 gram of citric acid powder be the acid equivalent of a typical slice of lemon? And would this properly invert the sugar without adding any undesired lemon flavor?
There is a recipe with lactic acid, but I've also seen some with citric acid. I'll look for the lactic one when I'm home, if nobody else posts it before here.

Edit:
Yeah.... Well..... Northern already posted the recipe in his thread :D
 
So if I use 12 Lovibond for Lyle's Golden Syrup I should be in the ballpark. Correct?
 
For software guided final beer color consideration, does anyone know the nominal EBC or Lovibond values that should be used in conjunction with Invert #1 and Lyle's Golden Syrup during recipe building? Or is there a color scale for all of the various numerical levels of Invert sugar?
I don't think beersmith handles color contribution of invert well, seem like it over estimates it but that could also be me over estimating the color. I am trying to take northern brewers advice and ignore the actual color and just worry about the flavor.
 
Many small (1 Pt. to 1 Qt.?) recipes for Invert Sugar call for adding a slice of lemon, but many claim that this imparts an odd flavor which is not present within commercial Invert Sugars. Would 1/2 gram of citric acid powder be the acid equivalent of a typical slice of lemon? And would this properly invert the sugar without adding any undesired lemon flavor?

I will refer again to the unholymess recipe for invert. I've followed it countless times always with great success.

More directly to your question though, I once tried to make invert with juice from a lemon wedge as I was out of citric. It noticeably tainted the flavor of the sugar. It is just too hard to gauge how much is "too much" with actual juice from a lemon due to the inherent nature of the beast.
 
I found reference indicating that the average lemon contains ~3 grams of citric acid. So if you can nominally get 6 slices out of one, then 0.5 gram seems about right for a single slice. Certainly not more than 0.75 gram. Split the difference and call it 0.625 grams of citric acid in a slice of lemon. And since some of the acid found within a lemon is ascorbic acid, using 0.625 grams of citric acid should compensate for the presence and impact of that acid also.

A level fill using a 1/8 TSP measure = ~0.625 grams, since 1 level TSP = ~5 grams and 1 level TBSP = ~15 grams.
 
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I found reference indicating that the average lemon contains ~3 grams of citric acid. So if you can nominally get 6 slices out of one, then 0.5 gram seems about right for a single slice. Certainly not more than 0.75 gram. Split the difference and call it 0.625 grams of citric acid in a slice of lemon. And since some of the acid found within a lemon is ascorbic acid, using 0.625 grams of citric acid should compensate for the presence and impact of that acid also.

A level fill using a 1/8 TSP measure = ~0.625 grams, since 1 level TSP = ~5 grams and 1 level TBSP = ~15 grams.
I'm sure that some of it doesn't go into solution... I'd stick to lactic acid or citric acid.
 
Going to brew this one tomorrow, slightly tweaked out of necessity. Using Golden Promise instead of MO and First Gold instead of Golding, 1318 for yeast.
 
Going to brew this one tomorrow, slightly tweaked out of necessity. Using Golden Promise instead of MO and First Gold instead of Golding, 1318 for yeast.
Nice!

The yeast is acually THE key ingredient in this recipe. So if you change the yeast, you'll get a completely different beer. Of course, your beer might also end up being a nice one. As long as the yeast produces loads of aromas it should be fine, just different obviously.


Let me know how it turns out please!
 
Nice!

The yeast is acually THE key ingredient in this recipe. So if you change the yeast, you'll get a completely different beer. Of course, your beer might also end up being a nice one. As long as the yeast produces loads of aromas it should be fine, just different obviously.


Let me know how it turns out please!
A09 was unfortunately out of stock both at the online shop I usually buy my stuff at and my LHBS didn't have it, they only have limited selection of liquid yeast. I figured I couldn't go wrong with 1318 but as you say, might not be the same beer in the end... I promise I won't blame YOU if I don't like the result :p
 
A09 was unfortunately out of stock both at the online shop I usually buy my stuff at and my LHBS didn't have it, they only have limited selection of liquid yeast. I figured I couldn't go wrong with 1318 but as you say, might not be the same beer in the end... I promise I won't blame YOU if I don't like the result :p
Ah, I see, it is the other "supposed to be" fullers strain. I actually never tried it myself, only read that it is missing the marmelade flavour that you can find in the fuller's beers. The Imperial Pub definitely has the marmelade flavour, but I do not know about the 1318. At least attenuation etc. should be about the same then :)
 
So, I went by the British Pub in town and had a pint of Fuller's London Pride from a keg. Maybe it's just me, but I didn't taste marmalade. One should be able to notice the marmalade, no? Or does it really need to be on cask vs keg or bottle for the marmalade flavor to come thru?

I am in Seattle, so that's a lot of travel to get here. I avoid the bottles as 1) hard to find and 2) not in an enclosed box.
 
So, I went by the British Pub in town and had a pint of Fuller's London Pride from a keg. Maybe it's just me, but I didn't taste marmalade. One should be able to notice the marmalade, no? Or does it really need to be on cask vs keg or bottle for the marmalade flavor to come thru?

I am in Seattle, so that's a lot of travel to get here. I avoid the bottles as 1) hard to find and 2) not in an enclosed box.

Well, to be honest, I also do not really get "marmelade", but something which is kind of close to some marmelade-ish flavour. I think everybody just agreed on calling it marmelade so that it has a name. I also actually only realised what it is when I found this specific flavour in my own beer.
 
Ah, I see, it is the other "supposed to be" fullers strain.

??? I've never seen 1318 London Ale III linked to Fullers. Are you sure you're not getting confused with Brewlab Thames Valley III?
 
So, I went by the British Pub in town and had a pint of Fuller's London Pride from a keg. Maybe it's just me, but I didn't taste marmalade. One should be able to notice the marmalade, no? Or does it really need to be on cask vs keg or bottle for the marmalade flavor to come thru?

I am in Seattle, so that's a lot of travel to get here. I avoid the bottles as 1) hard to find and 2) not in an enclosed box.

It depends how fresh it is, but I always get marmelade when drinking ESB. There is also a hint of it in London Pride, which is not very hoppy or malty.
 
??? I've never seen 1318 London Ale III linked to Fullers. Are you sure you're not getting confused with Brewlab Thames Valley III?
Hmmm... Now that you are saying it, I am not sure if I might have misinterpreted the description "from one of London's biggest brewerys" or if I actually read it somewhere.
 
I suspect you've misinterpreted it - and forgotten how many breweries London used to have. I've seen 1318 linked to Courage in the past, but since Boddies were bought by Whitbread and Whitbread had one of the biggest yeast banks in the country, it's always possible that there's been some crossed wires somewhere.

I think all that can really be said is that 1318 is not capable on its own of achieving the attenuations that were routine at Strangeways - and that Strangeways is a long, long way from London.
 
Note: this is a repost of Northern Brewer chiming in on a substitute for London III to use with Boddingtons. I don't know how to link to the exact post but it is part way down this pagehttps://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...r-london-ale-iii-aka-boddintons-yeast.654324/

Ah, the quest for the One True Boddies Yeast. It's kinda like the quest for Eldorado, only less achievable.

If you're serious about getting the right yeast, then there's only one realistic option for homebrewers and that's to drop an email to Brewlab saying what beer you're trying to clone, and asking them what they would recommend. In many cases they can't actually say "this is the yeast from X brewery", but they can say "We suggest this yeast if you're trying to clone a beer from X brewery". Subtle difference. :)

What do we know for certain?

Whitbread bought Boddies in 1989, so they would have had access to all Whitbread's resources, including their huge yeast bank, after that time.

The original Boddingtons brewery was in Manchester, 170 miles as the crow flies from London, or over 200 miles by road. So this idea that London Ale III is somehow "the" Boddies yeast just makes no sense at all. I've seen theories that maybe 1318 was a London yeast stored by the Boddies/Whitbread yeast bank but not actually used by them, or that they lost their original yeast and replaced it with a yeast from Courage (of London).

Ron Pattinson has blogged extensively on Boddies, which means we have a load of attenuations for the bitter, which had more or less the same recipe for a century - close to a pale malt/Goldings SMaSH, with maybe 7-10% sugar - so we can get an idea of what kind of yeast they were using :
1901 74.7%
1939 76.7%
1939 77.8%
1951 87.5%
1966 89.6%
1971 91.6%
1974 88.4%
1987 83.6%

We're not looking at your typical southern English sickly-sweet beer - this is classic Northern bitter, dry and hoppy. So forget Windsor and WLP002, they're way off-beam.

One can speculate on the reasons for the increase in attenuation. Some of it will undoubtedly be improving technology on the ingredient side, and there were minor tweaks to the recipe. In 1939 they were using 17-20% maize, which got killed off by WWII, in the 1970s sugar crept up to 13%, in 1987 they'd dropped adjuncts altogether.

The leap in attenuation in WWII is intriguing, and makes me wonder if they either deliberately or accidentally got some diastaticus in there which would allow them to make the same amount of beer from fewer ingredients during wartime.

Anecdotally, Boddies seems to have been notably bitter in the 1970s, but the quality dropped significantly in the recession of the early 1980s - probably sometime in late 1981. There are also rumours that they lost their yeast at some point, which might support the theory that they got yeast from Courage.

But those 90% attenuations look like a diastaticus yeast, which in British terms makes me think of the saison relatives normally found in Yorkshire squares. Indeed WLP038 Manchester is one such yeast, although I don't think we know what brewery it comes from and the official attenuation isn't that great.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I'd use either Notty or 1469.
 
@kmarkstevens
If you click on the post number in the thread it will give you a link to the exact post.

You can also click on the + Quote box and quote the text to a different thread, not sure if that is correct etiquette but it brings the text over without people needing to follow a link.
 
@kmarkstevens
If you click on the post number in the thread it will give you a link to the exact post.

You can also click on the + Quote box and quote the text to a different thread, not sure if that is correct etiquette but it brings the text over without people needing to follow a link.
Ahhhhh, blindingly obvious once you know how. Anyhoo, wanted to properly attribute another excellent post from Northern Brewer
 
@kmarkstevens
If you click on the post number in the thread it will give you a link to the exact post.

You can also click on the + Quote box and quote the text to a different thread, not sure if that is correct etiquette but it brings the text over without people needing to follow a link.
Thanks, I also didn't know that :)
 
Going to brew this one tomorrow, slightly tweaked out of necessity. Using Golden Promise instead of MO and First Gold instead of Golding, 1318 for yeast.
Better late than never, here's a pic of my brew....a month old now. It's a really tasty ale!
20190502_200552.jpg
 
Nice one!

Colour looks exactly like mine, I just had a bit more head, but that might also be just the pouring.
It's usually a bit more head but I was running low on co2 so it was a slow pour and also let it sit for 20 minutes before I started to drink it/took the pic, was a bit too cold at first. But nevertheless, the head is something I should work on.
 
Looks and sounds like my perfect beer, pretty much. Tasting it in my mind...

Miraculix, any thoughts on replacing the golden syrup with a mildly floral wildflower honey?
 
Looks and sounds like my perfect beer, pretty much. Tasting it in my mind...

Miraculix, any thoughts on replacing the golden syrup with a mildly floral wildflower honey?
The golden syrup gives some caramel taste. But maybe the honey works also in a good way, only one way to find out!
 
HOney is effectively ~85% invert. You can put it in a mason jar in the oven for 60-120 minutes at 250F and it will darken over time. Pretty easy.
 
I want to brew this--or something as close as I can get to it. I have no idea where I would get 10% golden syrup around here, so I'd like to sub some other sugar. How would turbinado sugar work for this? And what proportions of tubinado to golden?
 
Lyle’s Golden Syrup is sold in the grocery store here in Huntsville AL.

I believe that beer recipes should be as simple as possible and as complex as necessary, therfore my approach for this one wasn't too complicated.

I am in complete agreement!
 
I want to brew this--or something as close as I can get to it. I have no idea where I would get 10% golden syrup around here, so I'd like to sub some other sugar. How would turbinado sugar work for this? And what proportions of tubinado to golden?

Personally, I'd go for organic cane sugar or turbinado only because it doesn't impart much flavor like Lyle's golden syrup. I find it adds too much toffee to my liking.
 
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