Military Might

[Drewch]

Over-priced? Not to buy in comparison to 4th Gen offerings. Way to expensive to sustain over time, but that's a different thing.

Under-performing? How, and where did you get your info? I have first hand, in the field, warfighter knowledge and it doesn't mirror this statement. In fact, I've been amazed with how well the jet performs for what we asked it to do. But, I've only got 9 years of experience on that jet and 28 years on all kinds of USAF fighters, what do I know?

Ragging hyperbolically on the F-35 is a popular hobby for acquisition folks. If you look at the program from inception to what's been delivered, compare the original budget to the actual (do you even Nunn-McCurdy Breach, bro?), compare the original planned IOC to the actual, and consider the total lifecycle cost now estimated at over $1.5 trillion, it has not been a successful program.

Can we extract utility from the platform? Sure. It has some really cool tech, but imagine if that tech had been delivered anywhere near on time and on budget....

 

[passedpawn]

(do you even Nunn-McCurdy Breach, bro?)

haha awesome.

 

[cmac62]

I think the c130 gunship is awsome.

 

[Dland]

This was my "jet" haha. I was the only trained on one of these, so I drove it most of the time. LVS "Dragon Wagon". Yes, that was a while ago.

View attachment 739298

I remember when some of these went to auction, was a active topic of conversation on the military vehicle forum. Some were even recalled by govt after sale...

 

[passedpawn]

I remember when some of these went to auction, was a active topic of conversation on the military vehicle forum. Some were even recalled by govt after sale...

That back half, behind the articulating joint was normally a kingpin, so I could haul heavy equipment on a lowboy. Backing up that thing with two joints behind you was something. I was really good at it, but took some practice. I was training another guy to drive it and he laid it on its side. Lucky there was a dozer with some tackle that pulled us out of that ditch, just broke a mirror. Testament to the field-worthiness of the vehicle. Got a little speech by CO.

 

[Kickass]

Perhaps, but when you finally become a Naval Aviator you'll have achieved Nirvana.

Although still second to the Air Force, you’d have been a little closer had you said Marine Corps. Aviation hierarchy is as follows:
Air Force > Marine Corps > well trained monkey with lots of bananas > Navy

 

[Broothru]

Ha, ha. I had a tour instructing both Navy and Marine Corps student pilots in jet transition (FAM, Instruments, Formation, Basic Tactics and Air-to-Air Gunnery). Teaching Marines was very similar to training monkeys with bananas (it's a JOKE, Jarheads!).

I understand that there is limited cross-deck training of Air Force students in Navy squadrons and vice-versa. The Navy studs need some limited remedial training since the runways they'll be operating from are a bit shorter and are known to frequently not be in the same location where you left them after completing a mission.

Air Force pilots seemed to do "O.K." in Navy squadrons except for their propensity to consider "tight formation" as "same day, same direction" (it's a JOKE, Zoomies). That, plus the fact they were always asking, "Who's this guy everybody calls Roger Ball?" Naval Aviators would understand.

 

[oakbarn]

When I was in, we never exchanged pilots with the Navy or Marines. I did host a detachment of Marine RF4B s at Shaw. I was going to get a trap in the Back Seat, but alas, the Carrier was not available. I did CCAs at Maypearl (Docked Carrier) in Florida while at UPT (Undergraduate Pilot Training) at Moody AFB. We had a flight that we did a TACAN ARC at NAS Cecil, a CCA at Maypearl, the a BackCourse ILS at JAX. Hardly got the gear up before putting it down again.

I was a Tactical Instructor at Shaw getting new Pilots a bit lower and faster. Also SCAR (Strike Control and Recce) where I taught how to shoot rockets.

We did have one Canadian Exchange Pilot in my Squadron however (came from the Snowbirds and went back to Command them). Great Pilot!

 

[Broothru]

When I was in, we never exchanged pilots with the Navy or Marines. I did host a detachment of Marine RF4B s at Shaw. I was going to get a trap in the Back Seat, but alas, the Carrier was not available. I did CCAs at Maypearl (Docked Carrier) in Florida while at UPT (Undergraduate Pilot Training) at Moody AFB. We had a flight that we did a TACAN ARC at NAS Cecil, a CCA at Maypearl, the a BackCourse ILS at JAX. Hardly got the gear up before putting it down again.

I was a Tactical Instructor at Shaw getting new Pilots a bit lower and faster. Also SCAR (Strike Control and Recce) where I taught how to shoot rockets.

We did have one Canadian Exchange Pilot in my Squadron however (came from the Snowbirds and went back to Command them). Great Pilot!

When I was a student going through flight training in the early 70s, we had an Air Force 0-3 (Capt.) who was a good stick and a good guy to fly with. Later when I returned back to the training command we had two different exchange instructors from Venezuela, one of whom flew with their flight demonstration team, Los Aguilas (the Eagles). His English and ATC language skills weren't muy Bueno, but man that guy could sure speak 'airplane'.

 

[Broothru]

When I was in, we never exchanged pilots with the Navy or Marines. I did host a detachment of Marine RF4B s at Shaw. I was going to get a trap in the Back Seat, but alas, the Carrier was not available. I did CCAs at Maypearl (Docked Carrier) in Florida while at UPT (Undergraduate Pilot Training) at Moody AFB. We had a flight that we did a TACAN ARC at NAS Cecil, a CCA at Maypearl, the a BackCourse ILS at JAX. Hardly got the gear up before putting it down again.

I was a Tactical Instructor at Shaw getting new Pilots a bit lower and faster. Also SCAR (Strike Control and Recce) where I taught how to shoot rockets.

We did have one Canadian Exchange Pilot in my Squadron however (came from the Snowbirds and went back to Command them). Great Pilot!

It's a shame you never got to trap. It's an experience that never gets old (in both good and bad ways). But the real thrill is getting launched off the pointy end. Or, as a young Marine 1st Lt. described to me after his first trip to the boat, "It's like making love in a car wreck."

 

[madscientist451]

These days the donkey beats the high tech war machine.....

 

[kh54s10]

These days the donkey beats the high tech war machine.....
View attachment 739432

And right behind him is more Taliban in abandoned US military equipment - very well armed!!

 

[oakbarn]

"Kesari" Movie says it all. Not much has changed since the 1800s. Absolute hubris to believe you can change the hearts and minds of a country where a large portion of the population believes the way it does. We did change Japan and Germany, but they were totally destroyed and lacked any means of any significant resistance. Not the same as our recent interventions. I used to disagree with the Libertarian view, but I have come around to it. We need to kick a$$ and get the heck out. Come back and do it again, but no long term stays, if necessary. The Afghani are generally Suni and very Fundamentalists. One Squadron of A-10s and a few Gun Ships would have allowed the Afghan Army to have a better showing, but they knew we were leaving and not suppling any support.

 

[madscientist451]

One Squadron of A-10s and a few Gun Ships would have allowed the Afghan Army to have a better showing

Well Sure, The US has 360+ A-10's still flying and a squadron would have turned the tide, but the suits were saying "get out" ASAP so the donkey and the guy that can't count how many rounds he left ended up winning.

 

[davidabcd]

Not my idea, but if you want to end war, make those who have a vested interest fight them.
Most people, over the entire planet, are no different than you.
That being said, I'm always impressed with engineering, machines and so forth.

 

[passedpawn]

Hey guys, I'm extremely interested (and opinionated) on what's going on in Afghanistan, including why we went there, why we are leaving, etc. But I'd like to avoid seeing this thread moved to the debate forum (which I have opinions on too ).

So as hard as it is for me, let's avoid current events, politics, etc. Just keep this thread about the incredible machinery the US military industrial complex churns out for our warfighters. I was really enjoying the discussion of the F-35s earlier.

Anybody have experience with ordinance? I had a CO who was high on it, and we always were blowing stuff up with C4 or crater charges or bangalores or whatever he could get his hands on. Homemade napalm haha (srsly). We'd tape C4 to trees all the time just to level them, not sure why. Arc of claymores to take out a bush on a range. That kind of stuff.

 

[oakbarn]

It is simply amazing that the B 52 is still going.

" For more than 60 years, B-52s have been the backbone of the strategic bomber force for the United States. The B-52 is capable of dropping or launching the widest array of weapons in the U.S. inventory. This includes gravity bombs, cluster bombs, precision guided missiles and joint direct attack munitions. Updated with modern technology, the B-52 is capable of delivering the full complement of joint developed weapons and will continue into the 21st century as an important element of our nation's defenses. The Air Force currently expects to operate B-52s through 2050. "

My uncle was one of the last guys trained on a B 47 and one of the firsts on the B 52.

 

[day_trippr]

What's the ABV on that pour you're clearly enjoying?
Anyway, if this thread wants to survive it can't be a "debate" thread...

 

[oakbarn]

The B-52 also had the ability to crab the gear so the aircraft could takeoff and land in a crab (crosswinds). We landed the RF4 in a crab and it just straightened out. I was training in a Sabre 65 and was crabbing on final when my other trainee said, you need to do Wing Low. Wing Low? I had no idea what he was talking about. I don't think a Buff Pilot would have either.

https://theaviationist.com/2016/05/05/b-52-wca-landing/

 

[cmac62]

Hey guys, I'm extremely interested (and opinionated) on what's going on in Afghanistan, including why we went there, why we are leaving, etc. But I'd like to avoid seeing this thread moved to the debate forum (which I have opinions on too ).

So as hard as it is for me, let's avoid current events, politics, etc. Just keep this thread about the incredible machinery the US military industrial complex churns out for our warfighters. I was really enjoying the discussion of the F-35s earlier.

Anybody have experience with ordinance? I had a CO who was high on it, and we always were blowing stuff up with C4 or crater charges or bangalores or whatever he could get his hands on. Homemade napalm haha (srsly). We'd tape C4 to trees all the time just to level them, not sure why. Arc of claymores to take out a bush on a range. That kind of stuff.

View attachment 739529

I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like victory. LOL

 

[jrgtr42]

Never been in the military myself - I don't have the personality to do it, but I'm also fascinated by the equipment.
Saw this one just now on my news feed|:

Retired guided missile frigate sunk in exercise

 

[Kickass]

It is simply amazing that the B 52 is still going.

And for that, the mighty KC-135. 65 years old and the mother of the last pilot who will ever fly it hasn’t been born yet. Easily out lived the KC-10, and the KC-46 doesn’t have a chance. NKAWTG...N

 

[oakbarn]

Night, in the weather, getting a drink from a KC 135 took big cohonies . Even bigger from the back seat with a new pilot in the front. You could always tell when you had an old boom operator. He would "fly" you around with the boom.

 

[passedpawn]

Ooh fking rah. Get some, devil dogs.



More F-35. (I used to work for Lockheed M)

 

[oakbarn]

 

[Kharnynb]

the finnish military is built around the principle of slow retreat and making the opponent pay(3 guesses which of our 3 neighbours it's built around) for every meter. This is built around a massive amount of artillery and by using the terrain to bunch up the enemy mostly:

 

[Sailingeric]

Crazy low level flying.

 

[Broothru]

Crazy low level flying.

EF-18s out of Whidbey Island. I thought I'd recognized the terrain. What a perfect day to fly a low-level hop. CAVOK, no bumps down low through the passes, absolutely 'silk' approach and landing.

Oh, to be young, fearless and bullet proof again! Back in the day the 'rules' on low-level routes were "300 kts [+/- a "few" and <500' AGL]. Set the radar altimeter at 200' and try to make the low altitude warning light keep blinking on and off. In reality, as long as you didn't hit the ground or exceed the speed of sound you were "good to go."

USAF "Chair" Force rules were different, I'm told. What I want to see on YouTube is video of someone flying under the Deception Pass bridge. If this video link didn't get your heart pumping, Deception Pass will give you a heart attack.

 

[passedpawn]

It's all fun and games until the US sends a full squadron (24?) of F-22's your way. FAFO Iran.

 

[TheDudeLebowski]

I remember playing golf out in the desert of Vegas. Staring off into the foothills and noticed a low level object coming thru the valley in front of me. Bat ass fast and then the flash of a fighter jet and a gigantic roar. Impressive.

I've also worked on a project and they did a demo of an Apache using our equipment. It would enter a valley to get pot shots and location. Backup and give coordinates and BOOM!