Michigan bill proposes making a pint a pint.

[Moose1231]

When I lived in Austria, I found great comfort in the shot glasses and beer glasses labelled by mL, L, dL, etc. You always knew you were getting your money's worth. I also found great confusion in the metric system!

Seriously? Metric system is so much simpler. Here in Canada we have both system. If you ask for a pint you don't know what you get. But if the bar is in metric, he'll give you 500mL which is... well 500 mL, 50 cL or .5L. Wow, that is so easy!

 

[feinbera]

It's a noble idea, but, ultimately, all the cheap bars will just start calling 'em "tall" or "glass" or "venti" or anything else other than "pint", and train their staff to explicitly say "OK, that's one venti beer coming up" whenever anybody asks for a pint, so they can keep serving 14oz pours with their asses appropriately covered.

waldzinator's experience in Austria is the only real solution; mark and explicitly note the volume at a line far enough below the rim to allow some space for head, and serve whatever volume you darn well please, in the full knowledge that your customers will know what the volume is.

 

[Nightshade]

Is that anything like complaining that a cop shouldn't be wasting time writing you a speeding ticket, when there are murderers and rapists to be caught?

Nothing wrong with legislators taking care of the little stuff, in my opinion; that's part of their job description too.

Grocery stores can't get away with selling me a short gallon of milk and claiming that 'gallon' is just a generic term for a jug of milk... why should a bar sell me a short pint of beer, and get away with claiming 'pint' is just a generic term for a glass of beer? If they don't want to sell full pints, don't call them pints.

That is legislating morality, not their place.

The bar pours short, consumer lets people know, bar comes up short and loses business due to bad pour practices.

That is how a capitalist system works, the consumer determines the market.

 

[broadbill]

Lets stop telling small businesses how to run their business, mmmkay?

F^ck YEAH! This country was founded on three things.....God (specifically the Judeo-Christian one, angling more to the Christian than Jewish version though), Guns, and shorting customers to fatten your bottom line.....'merica.

IF you fill a proper pint, the terrorists win.

 

[ong]

That is legislating morality, not their place. The bar pours short, consumer lets people know, bar comes up short and loses business due to bad pour practices. That is how a capitalist system works, the consumer determines the market.

Right, and you manufacture a drug that kills people, eventually consumers find out, and you lose business.

 

[Nightshade]

Right, and you manufacture a drug that kills people, eventually consumers find out, and you lose business.

Apples to acorns

 

[broadbill]

Seriously? Metric system is so much simpler. Here in Canada we have both system. If you ask for a pint you don't know what you get. But if the bar is in metric, he'll give you 500mL which is... well 500 mL, 50 cL or .5L. Wow, that is so easy!

whoa partner....you telling me metric is easier? Nuthin' easier than 12 inches in a foot, 3 foot in a yard, 1760 yards in a mile, or 16 oz to the pint, 2 pints in a quart, 4 quarts in a gallons.

Hell, if you can't remember that, you deserve a silly system all based on the number 10....that and socialized healthcare.

 

[waldzinator]

Seriously? Metric system is so much simpler. Here in Canada we have both system. If you ask for a pint you don't know what you get. But if the bar is in metric, he'll give you 500mL which is... well 500 mL, 50 cL or .5L. Wow, that is so easy!

I was kidding. I loved the metric system. I still do. I frickin' hate trying to determine imperial unit conversions. The toughest part is the first week or two. An American has no conceptual idea of what 50cL is, so there is a learning curve. Plus, you get drunk so you forget the next day. It's like Groundhog Day (the movie), only with drinking.

 

[waldzinator]

whoa partner....you telling me metric is easier? Nuthin' easier than 12 inches in a foot, 3 foot in a yard, 1760 yards in a mile, or 16 oz to the pint, 2 pints in a quart, 4 quarts in a gallons.

Hell, if you can't remember that, you deserve a silly system all based on the number 10....that and socialized healthcare.

I vote for a base 2 system, just to keep things interesting. I'll order a 0110 0010. Heck, we can order in Hex if we want then.

 

[broadbill]

Right, and you manufacture a drug that kills people, eventually consumers find out, and you lose business.

...or the FDA pulls the plug....but whatever....I like your version where we decide which drugs stay on the market based on if people want to take them or not....now that is capitalism!

 

[broadbill]

I vote for a base 2 system, just to keep things interesting. I'll order a 0110 0010. Heck, we can order in Hex if we want then.

Nothing says American exceptionalism like the base 2 system. Am I right?

 

[waldzinator]

I'm sure the ancient Chinese would disagree, since they came up with it and it was formalized by a GERMAN mathematician. Sino-Deutch exceptionalism?

 

[Kolsch_Meister]

I never thought that a bill that just requires bars that claim to sell pints of beer to really sell pints of beer would create so much controversy. To me it seems to be just common sense. If a bar wants to use 14 oz glasses, just don't claim to be selling pints.....

 

[waldzinator]

Politics...always generates controversy.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

all I know is that I ain't learning another system. and you Canadians don't know what you're saying. the smell of back bacon is clouding your judgement.

 

[Yooper]

This is so stupid. A bar glass is not a pint!! It was never designed to be! It is designed to hold a 12 oz beer with about an inch of foam so you can pour it out of a bottle or can. If you want a pint, go to a place that sells pints, not glasses.

And where should I go to get a "pint" of beer that is labeled a "pint" and not be 12 oz? or 10 oz? Or 14 oz? I live in Michigan, and I've seen MANY places serve me a "pint" that is as small as a beer glass.

Grocery stores can't get away with selling me a short gallon of milk and claiming that 'gallon' is just a generic term for a jug of milk... why should a bar sell me a short pint of beer, and get away with claiming 'pint' is just a generic term for a glass of beer? If they don't want to sell full pints, don't call them pints.

Exactly. I buy milk by the pint at times- and I would complain of a 12 ounce pint.

Is someone actually going to complain about this in a bar? Lets stop telling small businesses how to run their business, mmmkay?

Yes, I do complain. Because to call a pint a "pint" denotes 16 ounces. If you buy a gallon of milk, and find out you're shorted by 1/3- 1/4, is that ok? I mean, let's not tell the milk company how to run their business, mmmmkay?

 

[MaxStout]

That is legislating morality, not their place.

The bar pours short, consumer lets people know, bar comes up short and loses business due to bad pour practices.

That is how a capitalist system works, the consumer determines the market.

Most, if not all, states have a department of weights and measures that already regulates the accuracy of many measuring devices used in commerce. They have been doing that for decades, and it hasn't had much adverse effect on the "capitalist system."

So you wouldn't mind if the state regulators stopped requiring calibration on gas pumps? Let's just allow some gas stations to round that "gallon" down to an even 100oz. and make it simpler. OK with that? Or the scales in the butcher shops and supermarket checkout counters? Let's just make a "pound" 14oz., or 12oz., or whatever the merchant wants. After all, the customer is free to shop elsewhere, amirite? :cross:

 

[feinbera]

Heck, let's not tell businesses what size an "ounce" should be, either ... telling me I can't measure my 16-oz pint in teaspoon-sized ounces is clearly communism and a huge infringement on the first amendment.

Seriously, there are regulations that pick winners and losers, and then there are regulations which make sure the playing field is level and that nobody's cheating. Even if you don't mind paying for 16oz of beer and only getting 14oz, the publican next door who doesn't wanna screw his customers but can't meet the cheater's prices certainly does.

 

[MaxStout]

I never thought that a bill that just requires bars that claim to sell pints of beer to really sell pints of beer would create so much controversy. To me it seems to be just common sense. If a bar wants to use 14 oz glasses, just don't claim to be selling pints.....

I think this is the crux of the proposed legislation. No one is forcing the hand of anyone. Businesses are free to serve any size portion they desire. They just can't call it a pint unless it is truly a pint. That's 16 fluid ounces, a standard that almost everyone in America understands and expects. Nothing socialistic here, nothing "telling businesses what to do." It's merely truth in advertising. Period.

While the legislators in Michigan clearly have much greater problems to address, and they SHOULD address them, I welcome any instance where lawmakers actually think about the consumer, as that is such a rare occurrence. Cheers to that bill's sponsors. I wish them well.

 

[Phlyborn]

Just ask for a bottle, you will get the same amount everytime.
Problem solve.
I've never really felt as though I've been cheated on a draft, lucky maybe.

 

[DrunkleJon]

I just hope they do not regulate the pours so much that a nice, good bartender can no longer overpour or give you a free beer. If they add in measures like the liquor bottle ones I will be really sad

 

[bobmcstuff]

I was kidding. I loved the metric system. I still do. I frickin' hate trying to determine imperial unit conversions. The toughest part is the first week or two. An American has no conceptual idea of what 50cL is, so there is a learning curve. Plus, you get drunk so you forget the next day. It's like Groundhog Day (the movie), only with drinking.

Ours are 568ml so you get even drunker!!






Although most of our traditional beers are only around 4%.... 20% larger pints but 20% weaker beer, assuming you guys standard beers are ~5% like everywhere else. Except most newer beers here are 5%+ so it kind of falls apart.........

I prefer a smaller measurer in craft places (most do 2/3 pints, obviously advertised as such) because it means I can try more beers without falling off my chair

I believe it's a legal requirement here that pours have to be within some % of the advertised measure.

 

[ChuckO]

Just ask for a bottle, you will get the same amount everytime.
Problem solve.
I've never really felt as though I've been cheated on a draft, lucky maybe.

May be true, only if you read the label on the bottle. Looks like a 12 oz. bottle, but Guiness Lager is 11.2 oz.

 

[bobmcstuff]

May be true, only if you read the label on the bottle. Looks like a 12 oz. bottle, but Guiness Lager is 11.2 oz.

That's because it's 330ml which is the standard small bottle size in Europe, rather than 355ml which is a US 12oz. Most Belgian beers etc in smaller bottles are also likely to be 330ml for the same reason. Unless they do 355ml just for the American market.

 

[stjackson]

Does anyone else think it's funny (and a bit ridiculous) that there are only 3 countries in the world that don't use the metric system, yet we call this "un-metric" system of measurement the "standard" system? How, exactly, is it standard?

You may now resume your regularly scheduled argument.

 

[david_42]

The only way to get an actual pint is to use a larger glass and pour to a mark. Try this eye-opener: take a pint (16) glass and pour a 12 oz can of beer in it. You'll be surprised how close to the top it gets.

Yeah, there was an attempt to go metric in the '70s. One provision was posting highways in 'stupid' and metric. The new signs were cut down or defaced in many places.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Yeah, I've seen those in stores.

Actually, it looks like this:

http://www.thebeergauge.com/

 

[Phlyborn]

I love that they actually make one of those gauges.

I didn't realize its that big of a problem

 

[Homercidal]

That gauge won't work on all glasses of that shape. Many aren't 16 ounces either because they are just a tad bit smaller, or have a thicker bottom. To get 16 ounces the person in an actual 16 ounce glass the tender would have to fill it right to the rim.

I think in some European countries they require a mark on the side of the glass to show the full pint and the glasses have room for some foam too. I'd like that here, to be honest.

 

[troy2000]

I never thought that a bill that just requires bars that claim to sell pints of beer to really sell pints of beer would create so much controversy. To me it seems to be just common sense. If a bar wants to use 14 oz glasses, just don't claim to be selling pints.....

I think part of what you're seeing here is plain old knee jerk, anti-government sentiment. Any time there's any attempt at all to regulate anything at all, some folks will have a 'the goverment's not the boss of me!!' reaction.