MIAB - Sparge or Squeeze?

[balrog]

Temp is only important really during conversion and with fine crush for BIAB that can happen fairly quickly. With a 7-9 gallon thermal mass, temp simply will not drop much. My point is that holding accurate temp for an hour is very likely unnecessary (see, for instance many posts by @RM-MN ).

 

[wsmith1625]

Thanks for the feedback. I have the pulleys (got the set from wilserbrewer) and also picked up some insulated gloves like shown. As this will be my first BIAB, figured I'd try it this way and see how it goes, can always amend the process next time. Still have to decide WHAT to make. Want to make a batch of Irish Death as I can't get it here in NC (it's local to WA state) but that is a complex grain bill, might try a simple SMaSH recipe just to have a better chance of success.

I'm not sure your grain bill matters much to the BIAB process, but a simple recipe will allow you to focus on process. I did a basic pale ale my first batch and it turned out great. I learned a lot from that brew. I thought I had everything spot on and my efficiency was still low. I bought a grain mill for the next batch and then I overshot target gravity. I'm still fine tuning my process and learning more each brew. Beers have been delicious.

 

[ChiknNutz]

I'm not sure your grain bill matters much to the BIAB process, but a simple recipe will allow you to focus on process. I did a basic pale ale my first batch and it turned out great. I learned a lot from that brew. I thought I had everything spot on and my efficiency was still low. I bought a grain mill for the next batch and then I overshot target gravity. I'm still fine tuning my process and learning more each brew. Beers have been delicious.

Understood. Just meant that I might not want to try a complex brew for my first all-grain BIAB, should keep it simple for the first one me thinks

 

[bleme]

Bag squeezers, do you wear gloves to not burn your hands? 152 deg F is hot!

No gloves. Squeeze through the pain then run cold water over my hands.
The more I do it, the less I feel it.

Like @Hwk-I-St8 , I squeeze, sparge, squeeze and usually get efficiency in the 90's.

Although my last beer I decided to just do a full-volume mash and minimal squeeze. That was kinda nice....

 

[FlabbyRoach]

@FlabbyRoach and @wsmith1625 do you feel your process results in clear wort?

Steve,
Yes, I think it results in very clear wort but I do use a half tab of Wirfloc when i put my immersion chiller in the last 15 minutes.

 

[RM-MN]

I mill the grain really fine then at the end of the mash I squeeze, sparge, squeeze, sparge, squeeze, and do a final sparge. My wort is really milky with all the flour that comes through but....

I don't drink wort, I wait until it is beer. The beer is clear, so what do I care what the wort looks like.

 

[balrog]

I did not realize you double rinsed.

 

[RM-MN]

I did not realize you double rinsed.

Um, I triple sparge. My kettle is a bit small and by sparging I get the wort volume up to where I want it. It is easiest for me to use a smaller vessel to sparge into because I am mashing on the kitchen stove with a range hood in my way. Bigger pots, bigger pans, etc just do not fit.

 

[ChiknNutz]

In reference to the "BrewInaBag" video, he mentions a what seems like a high water volume/grain ratio...around 3 qts/lb. Is this typical of the BIAB method? If not, what is your method of strike water volume calculation?

 

[Oginme]

In reference to the "BrewInaBag" video, he mentions a what seems like a high water volume/grain ratio...around 3 qts/lb. Is this typical of the BIAB method? If not, what is your method of strike water volume calculation?

I am doing full volume BIAB. Adding in all my water in the mash and my mash thckness is usually around 7 to 7.5 l/kg (3.35 to 3.7 qts/lb).

 

[doug293cz]

In reference to the "BrewInaBag" video, he mentions a what seems like a high water volume/grain ratio...around 3 qts/lb. Is this typical of the BIAB method? If not, what is your method of strike water volume calculation?

This is typical for a full volume, no-sparge mash, whether BIAB or traditional. If you want, or need, to sparge, then you would start with a thicker mash. There is nothing special about the 1.25 - 1.5 qt/lb numbers you often see, except if you want to sparge with the largest volume possible (to maximize lauter efficiency), in which case you need to minimize the amount of strike water. Mashes get pretty difficult to stir when the water is less than about 1.25 qt/lb.

Brew on

 

[LittleRiver]

...put the bag in a colander over the kettle and let the wort drip down until it slows down, then I squeeze. In fact, I compress the bag. I put the colander in a big bowl, and squeeze from the top with another big bowl....then I dunk the grain bag in a different container with very hot water....stir the crap out of the grains.... I again lift out the bag, spin it a bit to "squeeze" that way, in the colander and the colander is placed over the wort again. Wait until it stops dripping and then I do the two-bowl squeeze again....This process gets me a pretty good efficiency....consistent 77% efficiency for the past 5 identical brews....

I raise my glass to you for having fun with your brewing. To do all that.......... you must be having fun........ either that or you like self inflicted pain.

Try a full volume mash with finely milled grains (~ .025 inch mill gap), using a bag made of Swiss voile. After the mash, let the bag hang over the kettle for the entire boil. Don't squeeze it. Don't re-circulate. Don't sparge.

With that simple and enjoyable process I consistently get brewhouse efficiency in the low 80's. The beer tastes great, and looks great too.

 

[Steven Barrett]

I raise my glass to you for having fun with your brewing. To do all that.......... you must be having fun........ either that or you like self inflicted pain.

Try a full volume mash with finely milled grains (~ .025 inch mill gap), using a bag made of Swiss voile. After the mash, let the bag hang over the kettle for the entire boil. Don't squeeze it. Don't re-circulate. Don't sparge.

With that simple and enjoyable process I consistently get brewhouse efficiency in the low 80's. The beer tastes great, and looks great too.

View attachment 683743

Vienna lager?

 

[LittleRiver]

Vienna lager?

Nope. Just a simple American ale. No lagering, no fining agents.

Recipe: 11lb 2 row, 1lb C60 for color, 1oz Amarillo 60min boil, hopstand 1oz Amarillo 10min at 165F, WY1450 yeast @64F for 10 days, cold crash for 3 days.

 

[balrog]

In reference to the "BrewInaBag" video, he mentions a what seems like a high water volume/grain ratio...around 3 qts/lb. Is this typical of the BIAB method? If not, what is your method of strike water volume calculation?

There are calculators around, I like the Priceless one. The only trick is determining over a few batches what your absorption rate is for the squeeze/drain/vacuum/hydraulicpress/centrifuge process you use. Over time, I have settled on 0.077875 qt/gal for my process of drain 5min, then start heat which takes about 12m to reach boil, adding whatever else dripped out by then.

 

[Cato1507]

You will always get a bit better efficiency with a sparge. The question is do you need that extra efficiency, and is it worth the effort?

You can completely eliminate squeezing and sparging, and still have great efficiency, if you crush very fine (~.025") and let the bag fully drain by gravity.

That's a very effective and efficient way to go if you're doing BIAB single vessel (using only a kettle), and you have an overhead hoist point for the bag. Mash with full water volume and insulate the kettle. When the mash is done, remove the insulation, hoist the bag, and immediately fire the heat for the boil. The bag drains into the kettle during the entire boil. That's what I do, and get BH efficiency in the low 80's. There's never a need to transfer hot liquid. It's so easy and effective it's almost like cheating.

If you're mashing in a cooler, and your grains are coarsely crushed, do a sparge.

+1 on @LittleRiver method! I used to squeeze but not sparge as that is way awkward using a hoist. I lift and drain for about 20 minutes before starting my boil. I usually get lunch and cup of coffee while draining since I'm retired and in no hurry.

I just do a single crush to credit card mill gap and using BS3 my volumes and numbers hit very close.

As for a cooler mash tun the situation could be different I suppose, but I'm not an efficiency chaser. I do check it occasionally when I enter my measured numbers post production, but don't have enough variation except when brewing small 2.5 gal batches for competition. Well, when there were competitions before the pandemic.

 

[InspectorJon]

There are calculators around, I like the Priceless one. The only trick is determining over a few batches what your absorption rate is for the squeeze/drain/vacuum/hydraulicpress/centrifuge process you use.

I also us Priceless and find it very helpful and accurate.

 

[SouthBounds]

In honor of this thread I actually squeezed the bag this time (I never do). No sparge. Picked up 1/2 gallon of wort, slightly cloudy but settled right out. I had silicone BBQ gloves so it was simple and safe.

I ended up liking the reduced strike water volume. Hit my numbers bang on, no adjusting. It also sped up my spent grain dog treats in the oven!

 

[ChiknNutz]

... spent grain dog treats in the oven!

Do tell

 

[Boilinginsc]

Do tell

Sounds like a great idea!

 

[mjc999]

I plan on mashing in a cooler, and wanted feedback on squeezing the bejesus out of the bag vs. draining the cooler and then sparging to get the pre-boil volume I'm looking for into the kettle.

https://brulosophy.com/2018/03/05/mash-methods-brew-in-a-bag-biab-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/

 

[SouthBounds]

Do tell

Sounds like a great idea!

4 cups wet spent grain (no hops. use same day or next day - they get funky quick)
2 cups flour
2 eggs
1 cup peanut butter

Roll out and cookie cut
Oven - 30 minutes at 350 degrees then 2 hours at 200 degrees

 

[Toxxyc]

There are a lot of side by side tests that have been done already if you care to read them. Brulosophy has quite a few.

Squeeze vs. No Squeeze
http://brulosophy.com/2017/05/22/br...ag-has-on-beer-character-exbeeriment-results/
Whirflock vs. No Whirflock
http://brulosophy.com/2017/03/27/the-whirlfloc-effect-exbeeriment-results/

Yeah I've read a bunch of these tests before, but I like testing it myself anyway.

Oh, and when I squeeze, I squeeze between two SS bowls, not with my bare hands.

 

[Toxxyc]

I raise my glass to you for having fun with your brewing. To do all that.......... you must be having fun........ either that or you like self inflicted pain.

Try a full volume mash with finely milled grains (~ .025 inch mill gap), using a bag made of Swiss voile. After the mash, let the bag hang over the kettle for the entire boil. Don't squeeze it. Don't re-circulate. Don't sparge.

With that simple and enjoyable process I consistently get brewhouse efficiency in the low 80's. The beer tastes great, and looks great too.

View attachment 683743

Really need to try this then. I have a fine mesh bag. Will work for smaller batches. Reason I do it my way as well is because my boiling kettle is just-just too small for full volume mashing and brewing, so I "cheat". I mash in one vessel, sparge in the other, then top up the better boiler to the top, boil with hops and top up the no-chill cube with the remaining wort, boiled in another vessel. It works just fine.