Men: Getting snipped. Yay or nay?

[kombat]

I used to work with a guy not only dumb enough to go through with this

What's dumb about it?

 

[Gameface]

What's dumb about it?

That your coworkers will make fun of you like you only have one testicle.

 

[PADave]

That your coworkers will make fun of you like you only have one testicle.

I guess if I worked with people that had the maturity of little kids I'd gladly take that over making a baby. Then laugh at them when they knock some girl up and have to pay child support for the next 18 years.

 

[cannman]

I guess if I worked with people that had the maturity of little kids I'd gladly take that over making a baby. Then laugh at them when they knock some girl up and have to pay child support for the next 18 years.

Thanks for writing the post I contemplated for hours

 

[ajdelange]

Please be aware that he was only ridiculed behind his back, that he did only have one testicle after the doctor screwed up, and that what he did was done on demand of Mrs and irreversible (especially after he lost the marble). If you don't see what's dumb about that then God help you! He certainly came to lament his stupidity.

 

[ajdelange]

I guess if I worked with people that had the maturity of little kids I'd gladly take that over making a baby. Then laugh at them when they knock some girl up and have to pay child support for the next 18 years.

Thereby demonstrating your maturity.

There are, actually, ways of preventing Malthusian Catastrophe that do not involve the risk of irreversible emasculation.

And, BTW, a father's responsibilities, finanancial and otherwise, do not end 18 years after the birth of a child.

 

[hunter_le five]

Not following...

Millions of men successfully have a vasectomy free of complications of any sort, but this one guy is dumb because he chose to have one and the doctor fvcked up?

Does that sum it up? Or am I missing something here?

 

[ncsuwerewolf]

I had orders to produce a sample within the hour. Kinda tough when the doc is 25 minutes away and your watching the 2 toddlers that have to be ready to go prior to producing the sample. And for those who want to laugh. Let them know i aint bagging it ever again. Got 3 beautiful children and a wife who is happy. I will now continue to drink Homebrew.

 

[ajdelange]

I'd say so and he would agree. He accepted the risk, and I am sure that he was informed of it and signed off on it but later decided that he was pretty dumb to have accepted it. What did it buy him? And this was a guy who knew a lot about expectation. Hell, he didn't even get the transistor radio!

There are other reasons that I used to counsel the younger guys not to take this step but as I sense that even citing the very real risks here is politically incorrect I think I'd better slink back off to Brew Science.

I am basically for anything that stems population growth.

 

[hunter_le five]

I am basically for anything that stems population growth.

Except for vasectomies, apparently.

 

[Gameface]

I'd say so and he would agree. He accepted the risk, and I am sure that he was informed of it and signed off on it but later decided that he was pretty dumb to have accepted it. What did it buy him? And this was a guy who knew a lot about expectation. Hell, he didn't even get the transistor radio!

There are other reasons that I used to counsel the younger guys not to take this step but as I sense that even citing the very real risks here is politically incorrect I think I'd better slink back off to Brew Science.

I am basically for anything that stems population growth.

Vasectomies are more reliable and far safer than tubal ligation.

I've personally known about 6 guys who've had one and in that group recovery was pretty easy.

Vasectomy is a wonderful option. Not only for married men who can prevent their wife from having a far less reliable and far more invasive and risky surgery. But if you're a single guy who has sex with more than one woman and you don't want to be a daddy, ever, then this is easily the best possible option.

But here again we have the macho "ain't no one getting close to my manhood" attitude that serves no one.

 

[pandamonium]

AJ, exactly what risks are you talking about? The complication rate in "experiences" hands (i.e. Done by a doctor who does >50 per year) is like 1%. You keep referring to the stupidity of vasectomy in a very vague way but why don't you just come out and say what you have to say. With statistics. What do you mean when you say a man is emasculated by vasectomy? Do you think his testosterone level is being affected by vasectomy? Do you think his libido goes down? Do you really a mans "manliness" goes down when his semen doesn't have sperm in it? If so, just say it, so we know what you mean. It sounds like you have some very strong opinions about this, and I can respect that, but please think about providing some statistics before you come on here and try to discourage people from considering one of the most effective and safe forms of birth control that there is.

 

[jimmerz]

Listen, I had an Orchiectomy on my right testicle for testicular cancer, while I was under I asked the Dr to do a vasectomy. I'm pretty sure my testosterone and libido are as normal and healthy as they were prior to this procedure. My recovery was painless and quick. I'm 45 and could have as much sex as my wife would allow...

 

[ajdelange]

What do you mean when you say a man is emasculated by vasectomy?

As I didn't say that I can't answer the question.

Do you think his testosterone level is being affected by vasectomy?

I think Larry's was - by 50% (unless there is some feedback system which would cause the remaining gonad to try to take up the load of the missing one.

...providing some statistics...

When I first posted here I didn't realize that the title was misleading and that only acquiescense would be tolerated. I try to encourage people to think for themselves (with amazingly small success rate). In any medical procedure there is the risk of iatrogenic (and other) mishap. People making a decision as to whether to have a procedure of any kind done should be aware of what those risks are, what their costs are and what their probabilities are. If there is a 1% chance of risk (let's take your number) the expected cost of the procedure is 0.01 times the cost of the mishap. If the expected reward is greater than the expected cost you go ahead. What was the cost of the physical pain poor Larry went through (he walked with a list for a long time) plus the cost of his anxiety over the year and a half it took to resolve all this plus the cost of half his testosterone? I couldn't even put numbers on it.

If it happened to him it can happen to you. Persons contemplating doing this should estimate the cost to them of such an outcome and multiply by their estimates of the probability that this will happen to them. There are, of course, other unpleasant possible outcomes with their own costs and probabilities whose expected costs must be added in to obtain the total expected cost. Then that needs to be compared to the expected rewards. If the transistor radio is worth more than the expected costs then you go ahead.

The guys I worked with were engineers and knew how to compute and use expected values. I fully appreciate that of all the readers here there may be one who understands what I am talking about.

... before you come on here and try to discourage people from considering one of the most effective and safe forms of birth control that there is.

I may have made it clear that I think getting a vasectomy isn't very smart but I have not, intentionally, tried to discourage anyone from considering it. Considering it, up and down sides, is exactly what I want people to do. That satisfies my compulsion to try to make people think. In fact I hope that you will all go out and get one or more than one (in India it was soon discovered that you could get more than one transistor radio by showing up more than once and many did that thus balancing the expectational analysis to the benefit side). There are too many people in the world and I am for anything which ameliorates that. Malthusian Catastrophe is, despite my earlier comment upon us (if not perhaps in the way it was originally conceived).

 

[hunter_le five]

Anyone who chooses to get behind the wheel of a car is dumb. Don't they know the risks involved?

 

[ajdelange]

There's the first one willing to publicly announce that he doesn't understand expectation.

 

[hunter_le five]

There's the first one willing to publicly announce that he doesn't understand expectation.

I'm not entirely convinced you do, based on your absurd posts in this thread.

I've always appreciated and respected your posts in the brewing science section. But now you are truly baffling me.

 

[hunter_le five]

When I first posted here I didn't realize that the title was misleading and that only acquiescense would be tolerated.

And I suspect it's less to do with the lack of acquiescence and more with the fact that you've been nothing short of a condescending prick since you entered the discussion:

I used to work with a guy not only dumb enough to go through with this but to talk about it at the office.

he was only ridiculed behind his back

If you don't see what's dumb about that then God help you!

He certainly came to lament his stupidity.

Thereby demonstrating your maturity.

There's the first one willing to publicly announce that he doesn't understand expectation.

 

[ajdelange]

Try looking up Expected Value in Wikipedia. That will explain the math involved but you may have trouble applying it to situations where the costs are not solely in $. Yet psychologists tell us that we make life decisions based on the same principles.

 

[hunter_le five]

Try looking up Expected Value in Wikipedia. That will explain the math involved but you may have trouble applying it to situations where the costs are not solely in $. Yet psychologists tell us that we make life decisions based on the same principles.

And there it is again. Thank you for making my point.

 

[ajdelange]

If you walk around with a "kick me" sign on your back you have to expect that someone is going to take you up on it.

 

[hunter_le five]

More. More.

 

[ajdelange]

Enough!

 

[hunter_le five]

No. More. More.

I can only maintain this erection with a constant stream of abuse and humiliation. A side effect of my botched vasectomy, you understand.

 

[Helly]

Anyone who chooses to get behind the wheel of a car is dumb. Don't they know the risks involved?

My thoughts exactly. I read up on it. There are risks. I had higher than average pain levels and longer recovery time than most from the research I did. And I would 100% recommend it to someone in similar circumstances to me.

 

[ajdelange]

2

 

[hunter_le five]

Do you have anything to contribute besides anecdotal evidence and douchey remarks?

For all your blather you've presented very little evidence in support of the argument you are trying to make. We can discuss this topic like reasonable people, or you can continue being insulting and vague. But the latter sure doesn't sound very productive, and will probably just end with the thread getting locked.

 

[bob1852]

I'm so confused. Then again, it's probably a result of dimished brain power following my flawless vasectomy...

 

[ajdelange]

The problem here is that people don't read the posts through before they start typing. This is clear from the nature of the responses. In the one case where the poster sincerely tried to get information the question was posed as "what do you mean when you say...." and then inserted something I never said.

If you will ask a rational question that reflects something I wrote I will try to give you an answer/explanation (without being condescending) but I really suspect this is flame bait.

Assuming that you are sincere I will summarize the argument I am trying to make.
I hope everyone here, and a whole lot of other people too, get vasectomies (or tubal ligations or pessaries or whatever) but that is not part of the argument. The argument is:

Expectational analysis is a very powerful tool for making decisions widely used in industry, government, academia etc. A simple example of this is that the expected value of an insurance company's received premiums has to exceed the expected value of its paid benefits if it is to stay in business. If you are contemplating a vasectomy, or any other medical procedure, or making any other major decision you should do the analysis.


Now were you a young employee of mine asking whether you should get a vasectomy I would tell you to do the expectation analysis and give you some guidance as to what to put in the cost column and let you decide what to put in the benefits column. I would tell you about L. Marble. I would also tell you that IMO the equation is likely to come up on the don't do it side.

OK. There it is. One more whack at the tar baby.

 

[hunter_le five]

The problem here is that people don't read the posts through before they start typing. This is clear from the nature of the responses. In the one case where the poster sincerely tried to get information the question was posed as "what do you mean when you say...." and then inserted something I never said.

If you will ask a rational question that reflects something I wrote I will try to give you an answer/explanation (without being condescending) but I really suspect this is flame bait.

Assuming that you are sincere I will summarize the argument I am trying to make.
I hope everyone here, and a whole lot of other people too, get vasectomies (or tubal ligations or pessaries or whatever) but that is not part of the argument. The argument is:

Expectational analysis is a very powerful tool for making decisions widely used in industry, government, academia etc. A simple example of this is that the expected value of an insurance company's received premiums has to exceed the expected value of its paid benefits if it is to stay in business. If you are contemplating a vasectomy, or any other medical procedure, or making any other major decision you should do the analysis.


Now were you a young employee of mine asking whether you should get a vasectomy I would tell you to do the expectation analysis and give you some guidance as to what to put in the cost column and let you decide what to put in the benefits column. I would tell you about L. Marble. I would also tell you that IMO the equation is likely to come up on the don't do it side.

OK. There it is. One more whack at the tar baby.

Yeah, I think most of us got that part already. But thanks for explaining it again in plainer terms so us simpletons can understand. You're still not presenting much in the way of evidence for why you think the analysis results in A over B, you're just continuing to be condescending. I'm well aware of what expectation is.

Continuing to blather on about what expectation is not an argument for why getting a vasectomy is "dumb".
That would be like my boss asking me why I think parking all of our cash reserves in municipal bonds is a bad idea, and I just replied "numbers".