Men: Getting snipped. Yay or nay?

Yakima 728
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PADave said:
So in plain English, what was the point of you coming into this thread talking about some dude you knew who's snipping went bad a long time ago? Cause this was just all over the place. :confused:
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Well, believe it or not, I thought it would amuse people.

I also kind of thought that 'all over the place' was appropriate for this forum.

I also mentioned that I have steadfastly refused to get into a web discussion where emotion ruled over ratiocination because they are like those TV 'news' shows where the talking heads just shout at each other and thought I might give it a try.

Then I tried to turn it into a math/science discussion. Mistake, obviously but a couple of people apparently understand.

And I guess there must be a bit of the bully in me because I did beat up a couple of people who really couldn't defend themselves but, of course, that wasn't my original intention.
 
PADave said:
So in plain English, what was the point of you coming into this thread talking about some dude you knew who's snipping went bad a long time ago? Cause this was just all over the place. :confused:
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In performing analysis, his reward calculation was far greater than any risks and / or losses.
 
AZ_IPA said:
The study said that those 3 people got cancer because of the vasectomy????
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I didn't read the study. I read an article about the study that said

"However, further analysis found vasectomy was linked to a stronger increased risk of more aggressive forms of prostate cancer: a 19% higher risk for advanced cancer and a 20% higher risk of the lethal form."

When you said 16 men in 1000 who didn't have a vasectomy got the aggressive form I assumed you had looked it up, that that is the base rate and that, therefore, 0.2*16 = 3.2 is, therefore, the number whose aggressive cancer is correlated with vasectomy. The article said that the study looked for biases that might explain the correlation but did not find any and therefore concluded that there is indeed increased risk caused by vasectomy.

So yes, vasectomy does lead to prostate cancer (at least according to this study). And now that I think of it 1.6% does seem rather low for the base rate. Can't draw a conclusion from one study but if I were younger and contemplating this I would for sure be looking into this aspect of it.
 
ajdelange said:
I didn't read the study. I read an article about the study that said

"However, further analysis found vasectomy was linked to a stronger increased risk of more aggressive forms of prostate cancer: a 19% higher risk for advanced cancer and a 20% higher risk of the lethal form."

When you said 16 men in 1000 who didn't have a vasectomy got the aggressive form I assumed you had looked it up, that that is the base rate and that, therefore, 0.2*16 = 3.2 is, therefore, the number whose aggressive cancer is correlated with vasectomy. The article said that the study looked for biases that might explain the correlation but did not find any and therefore concluded that there is indeed increased risk caused by vasectomy.

So yes, vasectomy does lead to prostate cancer (at least according to this study). And now that I think of it 1.6% does seem rather low for the base rate. Can't draw a conclusion from one study but if I were younger and contemplating this I would for sure be looking into this aspect of it.
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I'll just keep eating my tomato sauce. ;)

http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/33/6/669.full.pdf+html

This is fairly interesting, as well...

Siddiqui et al. made a point that vasectomized men were at higher risk for lethal and advanced prostate cancer. In fact, unadjusted cumulative incidence of lethal and advanced cancers shows that the risk is not higher, but lower, in men who have undergone vasectomy (1.4% and 1.9% in vasectomized v 1.7% and 2.2% in nonvasectomized men, respectively).
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Now I've found another article in the same journal that says the Mucci study was flawed because the authors did not allow for the fact that many of the un-vasectomized men were Italian and therefore Catholic explaining why they didn't get snipped, but therefore big consumers of tomato sauce (isn't this stereotyping?) and that (lycopene) is why they had lower rates of lethal prostate cancer. Now if that doesn't inject a little humor into the discourse I don't know what it is going to take.
 
FWIW, AFAIK, a man's probability of developing prostate cancer approaches 1.0 as his age approaches 90. That is, any man who lives long enough will eventually develop prostate cancer, regardless of the contiguity of his vas deferens.
 
kombat said:
FWIW, AFAIK, a man's probability of developing prostate cancer approaches 1.0 as his age approaches 90. That is, any man who lives long enough will eventually develop prostate cancer, regardless of the contiguity of his vas deferens.
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And maybe men with vasectomies live longer, because they have no stress over getting a woman pregnant. And some of them (the ones who do so to remain childless, not merely to not father any new ones) probably live longer because they don't have the stress of parenthood...

Some days it feels like my kids are killing me, slowly, minute by minute...
 
bwarbiany said:
And maybe men with vasectomies live longer, because they have no stress over getting a woman pregnant. And some of them (the ones who do so to remain childless, not merely to not father any new ones) probably live longer because they don't have the stress of parenthood...

Some days it feels like my kids are killing me, slowly, minute by minute...
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Energy has to come from somewhere. I believe that children draw it from their parents. Notice how everyone seems to grow and mature until they have kids, then they seem to get older and have less energy.

Fact.
 
Homercidal said:
Energy has to come from somewhere. I believe that children draw it from their parents. Notice how everyone seems to grow and mature until they have kids, then they seem to get older and have less energy.

Fact.
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I can only speak for myself...and the mrs 'cause she's at the gym...but I would argue that kid energy keeps you fit both mentally and physically.

We raised four kids who did theater, sports, cheer leading, agriculture, student body, community volunteer. Their energy was contagious and we were right there with them for 24+ years coaching, fund raising, providing transportation, making background scenes & costumes, chaperone dances.

Ten years later we're both far more active and involved with life then the parents who couldn't find the time to play catch or hide and go seek with their kids.
 
What a waste of the last 25 or 30 pages of this topic. The original post was wondering about the yeas and nays of getting a vasectomy not a bunch of lectures about math and philosophy, ..... and a lot of good stories and experiences were posted. Then along comes a 70 year old elderly person with his egghead theories, probability studies and 'expectational analyses' (whatever that is), insulting everyone along the way because they didn't do a bunch of worthless mathematical computations to figure out whether it was the right decision or not.

If it's right for the person or not depends on their personal circumstances, NOT some equation that some other egghead figured out whilst attending some long-forgotten college class back in the 'old days.' I would guess that this 70 year old person was a college professor or some kind of educator (or at least he thought he should have been), in the past and now he thinks he has to inform the 'unwashed masses' of how much more superior his brain is and suffers the ignominy of having to teach the ignorant 'lessers' about the realities of life! Typical of those who have had too much education, rather than those who have had just the right amount.

Give it a rest AJ, no one's interested in doing the math, everyone can figure it out for themselves without textbooks, spreadsheets, and medical journals. For the record, I'm 72, going on 73 and had 3 boys, 2 of which have died in the past 10-15 years - - IF I had decided to get a vasectomy, I certainly wouldn't have any desire to change that back just because I hadn't done the 'proper analysis' way back when.

I'm told that the part they cut out is 2 or 3 centimeters , but it is 12 -15 inches long. If it were me, I'd tell the urologist to take all of it out, not just the 2 or 3 centimeters. Once I started having kids (actually the wife had them ;>)), I wasn't too thrilled with kids running around, bugging me, getting into my tools and losing them, etc., but I wouldn't trade the experience for a billion of your pounds/euros/dollars/whatever.

I'm through with this thread since you have hijacked it with your long-winded lectures and your inability to be able to convert more that 2 people to understanding all your 5 dollar words and philosophies.

I won't say it's been entertaining, becuz it hasn't ever since you started posting, but before that it was entertaining and informative, especially when pandemonium was posting with his knowledge and experience.
Bye ......
 
kombat said:
FWIW, AFAIK, a man's probability of developing prostate cancer approaches 1.0 as his age approaches 90. That is, any man who lives long enough will eventually develop prostate cancer, regardless of the contiguity of his vas deferens.
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I've heard it said (1) that if we live long enough, cancer is what we'll die from. Not because statistics or because everything else missed. Because cancer is what we die from. It's genetic. Eventually, we grow a cancer. Sure as ear hair.

(1) hearsay et al
 
This has been interesting. I really hope AJ has said what he has to say so we can get back to regaling eachother with tales of balls the size of watermellons and dudes riding dirt bikes the day after their snipping.
I did two more vasectomies today. One on a guy whose wife made him get it even though he is 55 years old because she thinks he's been sleeping around on her and and doesn't want to have to pay child support if he goes and knocks someone up. They were perfectly open about all of this. The dudes just sittin there nodding with a barely-suppressed smile. I thought he was about to wink at me.
On the other side of things, I also just had to take a guy to the OR to drain a "hematoma" (basically a big blood clot) that he developed after his local family doc vasectomized him. So bad things DO happen, like with any procedure. but stories of anything worse than a hematoma or lingering pain are apocryphal.
Anyhow, I'll be around, so feel free to ask me any questions related to the procedure or recovery.
 
I went in and she gave me a valium to calm me down. Didnt really work as meds really dont affect me. Sterilized the area and the doc walked in. Flung my meat to the left, then to the right, sutured me up and told me not to chop any wood for the next week. Most random thing Ive heard, but we both laughed. Nuts were black and blue for a few days, and I stayed home watching March Madness. Was in the gym the next week. Everyone I knew got a nice text of my bruised taint. I even saved it as a screen saver on a guys phone at work. My vasectomy was legit. Drove my local watering hole afterwards with the wife, smashed some great beer, and went on.
 
PADave said:
My only question is, how the hell do you shave your sack? :confused:
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Carefully! :)

I do mine twice a week now. Once you get into the habit, it's hard to go back. Do it in the shower, with a nice, sharp razor. Run the water as hot as you can stand for a while to relax the skin (just like shaving your face). TMI Alert. Pull the skin taut a little bit as you run the razor over it to get a closer shave.

Or get a friend to help. Preferably female. Or a guy, not that there's anything wrong with that.
 
PADave said:
My only question is, how the hell do you shave your sack? :confused:
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My doctor said I didn't need to shave for the procedure.

But I did anyway. :D

Felt really nice until the stubble started coming in. :eek:

Now I just use a trimmer set at about 4 or 5. Just long enough so teh sack doesn't stick to the side of my leg when it's warm out.
 
PADave said:
My only question is, how the hell do you shave your sack? :confused:
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Had mine done 17 years ago. Dr. told me not to shave and they would take care of it. Only shaved a quarter sized space for the procedure.

A friend of mine shaved everything because he thought he had to. Showed up for the procedure and was told he wouldn't have had to do that. Said it was itchy as hell as it was growing back. Moral of the story? Always ask first ;)!
 
AZ_IPA said:
I'm over at homescrotumshavingtalk.com right now giving advice to n00bs on how to brew beer....
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There's a guy over there throwing around risk analysis math about how if you drink one beer in your life, you have an increased chance to die of liver failure and various cancers, so it makes sense to not take the risk, isn't there?
 
Careful with the scrotum shaving guys. Buddy of mine got mrsa on his sack from shaving which led to a painful er visit.

Back on topic, had mine done in December after baby #3. It was less than pleasant but I survived. I would say go for it but do consider any scenario in which you might want to have more children. Life circumstances do change, often abruptly and unexpectedly...
 
kombat said:
Carefully! :)



I do mine twice a week now. Once you get into the habit, it's hard to go back. Do it in the shower, with a nice, sharp razor. Run the water as hot as you can stand for a while to relax the skin (just like shaving your face). TMI Alert. Pull the skin taut a little bit as you run the razor over it to get a closer shave.



Or get a friend to help. Preferably female. Or a guy, not that there's anything wrong with that.
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That paints a picture...


I'm too afraid to get that close with a razor. I go with clippers. Have a dedicated pair under the sink.
 
First post op sample was negative. Second post op sample had spermatozoa present. WTF! Calling doc tomorrow to get more info.
 
Hophunter said:
First post op sample was negative. Second post op sample had spermatozoa present. WTF! Calling doc tomorrow to get more info.
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Doh! That sucks. I've got a couple more weeks before I'm supposed to submit my sample. I've done a quick "self-check" with my own microscope and couldn't find anything, so I'm hopeful. How long ago was your op?
 
Had it done 12 years ago at age 23 and very happy with how it turned out and the benefits it has given me over the years.

7/7, would highly recommend for anyone not wanting to have children of their own, which more people should seriously consider.
 
kombat said:
Doh! That sucks. I've got a couple more weeks before I'm supposed to submit my sample. I've done a quick "self-check" with my own microscope and couldn't find anything, so I'm hopeful. How long ago was your op?
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March 4th. Def over the 20+ rounds that's supposed to clear it. Could be non-motile as all they report is presence, not liveliness. Did some reading and for some, it takes up to a year to clear.

As for self checking, it may be deceiving as they centrifuge the sample to concentrate the swimmers to make it easier to find.
 

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