Melomel Tasting and Balance Question

[Todd Peterson]

Good afternoon group.

I now have 3 meads under my belt. All three are melomels. 1 batch of mixed berry and 2 batches of black currant and blueberry. All three have finished in the 1.015 to 1.020 gravity.

Here is my question. All three have a sharp, tart taste on the front end with the mead becoming very pleasant afterward with the distinct taste of the berry ingredients. The meads range between 13% and 13.5% Abv. I am reluctant to back sweeten these as I can already pick up residual sweetness in the finished product and would like to avoid diabetes.

Is it typical for berry melomels to be sharply tart on the front end of the tasting. I’m not really sure what it is suppose to taste like if executed well with the final product balanced.

Will the sharp taste fade with age?

I have toyed with the idea of purchasing a commercial melomel from a commercial meadery like Superstition to get an idea of a solid example (Marion Berry Mead). I’m reluctant as most seem to finish very sweet.

My meads range between 3 and 6 months in age. Other than the tart taste on the front end, I’m very pleased with the final product.

Looking forward to your input.

Thanks in advance!

Todd Peterson

 

[DBhomebrew]

Not an answer to your question, but with what tool are you reading gravity? Refractometer? If so, are you using a refractometer FG calculator to compute FG?

 

[MightyMosin]

I am reluctant to back sweeten these as I can already pick up residual sweetness in the finished product and would like to avoid diabetes.

I have toyed with the idea of purchasing a commercial melomel from a commercial meadery like Superstition to get an idea of a solid example (Marion Berry Mead). I’m reluctant as most seem to finish very sweet.

If you don't want sweet, then you probably do not want the Superstition Marion Berry... most of their Melomels are very sweet to my palette.

A variety of flavors can fade over time and aging can certainly help; At 13%, you may find it quite a bit better in another few months, but that will depend on what the exact issues are. If that tart taste up front is acidic you can balance it a bit with some small amount of back sweetening. I'd try a measured amount in a cup and just try a bit of table sugar or simple syrup mixed in to see what some added sweetness does for your flavor profile. If it seems promising, then you can try in smaller amounts with your preferred back sweetening agent to get what you want and then scale that up to the rest of your batch amount.

 

[DBhomebrew]

To your actual question, mead will typically get better with age. And often better than that with even more age.

 

[Todd Peterson]

Not an answer to your question, but with what tool are you reading gravity? Refractometer? If so, are you using a refractometer FG calculator to compute FG?

DB, I have been using a hydrometer to determine my starting and final gravity. Using online calculator to determine abv.

If you don't want sweet, then you probably do not want the Superstition Marion Berry... most of their Melomels are very sweet to my palette.

A variety of flavors can fade over time and aging can certainly help; At 13%, you may find it quite a bit better in another few months, but that will depend on what the exact issues are. If that tart taste up front is acidic you can balance it a bit with some small amount of back sweetening. I'd try a measured amount in a cup and just try a bit of table sugar or simple syrup mixed in to see what some added sweetness does for your flavor profile. If it seems promising, then you can try in smaller amounts with your preferred back sweetening agent to get what you want and then scale that up to the rest of your batch amount.

Thanks for the reply Mosin. I appreciate the feedback. I’m hoping it fades a bit with age as I would like to avoid back sweetening if possible.

I’m pleased with the mead once my palette becomes acclimated to the tartness. Didn’t know if this was a typical attribute of berry meads after stripping the sugar away from the fruit and honey. I’m sure additional sweetness would offset the tartness. I’ll do some experimenting with some samples to get an idea of what amount of honey would be required. I’m not picking up any fuesels or off flavors typically associated with fermentation problems.

Thank you both for the input. I may need to find another mead maker that could try a sample and give feedback.

Todd Peterson

 

[MightyMosin]

Thank you both for the input. I may need to find another mead maker that could try a sample and give feedback.

Todd Peterson

I'm lucky that my brother-in-law lives close by and has a very good wine palette and he's been a pretty good sounding board for trying things out. Maybe you will find someone at a local wines hop that wouldn't mind being a tester.

 

[bushpilot]

All three have finished in the 1.015 to 1.020 gravity.

I don't think you will want to back sweeten them, as they are already semi-sweet to sweet at that FG.

Age is the best tool you have. You can also try oaking, which might balance it a little.

Did you stabilize it? With that FG, and abv in the 13% range, I'd want to stabilize for sure before bottling.

 

[Todd Peterson]

I don't think you will want to back sweeten them, as they are already semi-sweet to sweet at that FG.

Age is the best tool you have. You can also try oaking, which might balance it a little.

Did you stabilize it? With that FG, and abv in the 13% range, I'd want to stabilize for sure before bottling.

I stabilized the first batch that I have since bottled. I plan on stabilizing the next 2 as well once they are ready to bottle.

When you stabilize, do you follow the instructions on the package for dosing? The dosing chart on the r/mead wiki seems to suggest way less than the manufacturer if your mead has a higher alcohol and is more acidic. I am still apprehensive about the kmeta and ksorbate so I followed the wiki with the lower dosing suggestion. Seems to have worked. At 6 months 1st batch shows no sign of carbonation.

I just put medium toast French oak cubes from Stavin in my 2nd batch last night. Was thinking the same thing you suggested as it may soften the sharp taste.

Thanks for the input. I am grateful.

Todd Peterson

 

[bushpilot]

I do gallon batches, and use 1 Camden tablet per gallon for the kmeta. For the sorbate, I start with 1/2 tsp per gallon and fudge that down for higher abv.

Not a recommendation, just answering your question about what I do. I am sure it can be dialed in better.

 

[bwible]

How did you get it to finish 1.015 to 1.020? Mine always go to 1.000

 

[Todd Peterson]

How did you get it to finish 1.015 to 1.020? Mine always go to 1.000

Starting gravity of 1.13 ish.

 

[bwible]

Starting gravity of 1.13 ish.

So you’re doing 3.5 lbs per gallon or even a little more than that. I typically use 2.5 to 3 lbs per gallon. Still plenty strong. That much gravity will stress your yeast. Use plenty of nutrient and staggered nutrient schedule if you are not already doing that.

 

[MightyMosin]

With that high of a gravity, you really also need to use pure 02 for about 60 seconds through .5 micron aeration stone prior to yeast pitch and then again 12-18 hours later. That will also help getting the best yeast colony for the mead.

 

[Todd Peterson]

So you’re doing 3.5 lbs per gallon or even a little more than that. I typically use 2.5 to 3 lbs per gallon. Still plenty strong. That much gravity will stress your yeast. Use plenty of nutrient and staggered nutrient schedule if you are not already doing that.

Not exactly. Using a lot of pure fruit juice in place of water. The sugar in the fruit juice pumps up the starting gravity. Following tosna, rehydration with goferm, and maintaining fermentation temp in low 60 s to give the yeast a fighting chance. No signs of stress in offgassing so far.

With that high of a gravity, you really also need to use pure 02 for about 60 seconds through .5 micron aeration stone prior to yeast pitch and then again 12-18 hours later. That will also help getting the best yeast colony for the mead.

Haven’t used our O2 yet. Just the drill attachment to put must together and then again to degass for the first couple of days.

Todd Peterson

 

[MightyMosin]

Not exactly. Using a lot of pure fruit juice in place of water. The sugar in the fruit juice pumps up the starting gravity. Following tosna, rehydration with goferm, and maintaining fermentation temp in low 60 s to give the yeast a fighting chance. No signs of stress in offgassing so far.

Haven’t used our O2 yet. Just the drill attachment to put must together and then again to degass for the first couple of days.

Todd Peterson

I've done that for a long time and then I used an air pump with filter through aeration stone. Those methods work decent enough but they don't reach the PPM that pure O2 does.

 

[Todd Peterson]

I've done that for a long time and then I used an air pump with filter through aeration stone. Those methods work decent enough but they don't reach the PPM that pure O2 does.

I have a stainless wand with a diffuser stone that attaches to an O2 tank. I’ll try to break it out for the next batch.

Do you use the O2 more than at the initial mixing of the must?

Todd Peterson

 

[MightyMosin]

I use the 02 right before yeast pitch. They will use all of that up in about 30 minutes.
After the lag phase (12-18 hours later), they are ready for another dosing while growing the colony.

 

[CKuhns]

As mentioned above. Set it aside. 12 to 24 months will do wonders. The suggestions discussed will help with future ferments, however even then with higher ABV mead it takes a while to age out the fusels and other off flavors.

 

[Todd Peterson]

As mentioned above. Set it aside. 12 to 24 months will do wonders. The suggestions discussed will help with future ferments, however even then with higher ABV mead it takes a while to age out the fusels and other off flavors.

Is 13% ABV generally considered a high ABV mead?

I’m trying to distinguish between unbalanced and off flavors. I do not detect rubber band or medicinal zing that are generally associated with stressed yeast.

I don’t have enough experience with it to distinguish. Not to mention My palette is not great.

I appreciate the input. It’s a fun hobby and I like the final product.

Would love to try some well done examples to get a baseline for future expectations.

Todd Peterson

 

[MightyMosin]

Is 13% ABV generally considered a high ABV mead?

I’m trying to distinguish between unbalanced and off flavors. I do not detect rubber band or medicinal zing that are generally associated with stressed yeast.

I don’t have enough experience with it to distinguish. Not to mention My palette is not great.

I appreciate the input. It’s a fun hobby and I like the final product.

Would love to try some well done examples to get a baseline for future expectations.

Todd Peterson

While I do Hydromel (session) and the occasional 16%+ versions, IMO 12% ABV is the standard for a mead. With proper practices and nutrients and yeast selection, this can be a nice drinkable mead in a 4-6 weeks. The lower you go, the faster they are done fermenting and being ready to drink. I normally will smell stressed yeast with that sulpher smell that seems to start in the first week of fermentation (for me, at least). If I smell that, I get the drill going with the stirrer and whip as much o2 into is as possible while also forcing out that odor; you have to get to it fast when you smell that going.

You palate will get better as you do more of this. I initially focused on traditional meads as you have nothing else in there to hide off flavors or anything else that fruit and spices might disguise. Once you start adding ingredients, you will start to recognize them in your meads. I can pick out even mild fusel alcohol from a stressed ferment thanks to my horrid first batch. A friend made a similar batch that he dubbed the Soul Stealer.

As far as examples go, look around in your area for meaderies. If you travel for business or recreation, try and see if there are any along your path or near your destination and give them a try. I have found that I make mead better than several places that I have tried. I also don't have the same time constraints and needing to keep cash flow going to stay afloat. I imagine that many meaderies have put out product that they weren't quite happy with, but they needed to get it sold.

My 2nd mead was something like 16.8% and was a 1 gallon batch. I didn't know much about proper mead making and nutrients were a guessing game. It was horrible out of the fermenter . For a few months off and on I would sample it or blend a bit of it with my 1st horrid batch. Eventually I stuffed it off to the side while I learned more and started up some more properly made meads. I was so glad I only made 1 gallon of it.

At one point I had something like 10 or 12 different batches sitting around in carboys; 1, 3, and 5 gallon sizes and I told myself that I wouldn't brew anymore until I bottled and dealt with what I had around... I hate bottling, which makes bulk aging so much easier. In going through these, I came on that 2nd batch and I took a taste of the horrid crap; it was wonderful, so honey forward with apparent residual sweetness (it was bone dry at 0.998) and a great wonderful smooth mouthfeel that coated the palate nicely. I was so sad I only made 1 gallon of it.

My long winded point is that the higher ABV can mean more time waiting for it to become something nice... but then again, sometimes crap is crap and no amount of waiting will help.

The opposite high gravity story I have is a Mesquite mead done with pineapple chunks in primary. The added sugars from the pineapple brought it to ~17% ABV. When it finished fermentation, it was so tasty with a subdued pineapple flavor and no alcohol heat. Good practice and nutrients made this high ABV mead drinkable right away, though I did wait about 3 months before bottling. These went into 375ml bottles and I have about 24 of them left.