Mega stupid idea (potentially)

[Chemiker]

I have a crazy idea that I want you guys to shoot holes in. After touring the Gordon Biersch brewery and seeing how they carbonate old school by trapping the natural CO2 fermenation byproduct during fermentation, I had an idea.

Old method (for reference):
Ferment till done or almost done
Finish in carboys for 2 - 4 weeks depending on the recipe
Prime and keg, 3 weeks wait

New method:
Ferment till almost done (1-2 gravity point change in 24hr)
Rack into kegs and seal. Pressurize per carbonation chart and allow fermentation/carbonation for 2-4 weeks depending on recipe
Pressure transfer and filter into kegs. Let mature for several weeks.

This will
a) reduce oxygenation, as the transfer from bright tanks to kegs is airless (all kegs are backfilled with CO2).
b) make my job easier as transferring from bright tanks to kegs is done under pressure, no siphoning or lifting required.
c) gives clean carbonated beer at the end - no dumping the first several glasses from a keg because of sludge.

I'm not really looking to save time - beer shouldn't be rushed. I'm trying to reduce oxygenation and siphoning steps is all. What do you think? What's wrong with me???

 

[IrregularPulse]

Want to reduce siphoning steps? Primary for 4 weeks, siphon to keg. Put on co2. Do you currently have oxygen associated off flavors in your beers?

 

[KYB]

I was actually going to try this once, but then I realized it will take a lot of experimenting and nailing things down to perfection to get a consistent fermentation. If you don't make the same recipe many time, with all the variables exactly the same, how will you know when it's almost done fermenting? Good luck if you try it, but I'm with him - primary 4 weeks, siphon to keg, hook up to CO2.

 

[craigbrew]

I don't know how you would filter carbonated beer. All the filters I have seen says that it filters un-carbonated beer.

 

[Ace_Club]

+1 to getting rid of your secondary step (i.e., finishing in carboys) from your old method. It's really not needed for most beer styles.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

I don't know how you would filter carbonated beer. All the filters I have seen says that it filters un-carbonated beer.

It'd be a foamy mess. The co2 would leap out of solution as soon as it hit the filter pad, i'd think.

 

[Chemiker]

Thanks for the replies! The answer to the oxygenation question is that I'm not sure. I do know that I've never had an overpowering stale taste. I do what I can to minimize oxidation, but at the end of the day siphoning into a carboy filled with air isn't the best I can do. Kegs are so much easier to clean, handle, and store than carboys. Also, I can easily backfill them with CO2, just by filling and burping, like when force carbonating.

I guess one thing I hadn't though of that's motivation for me, is that I use my kegerator for fermentation, and don't need to or want to have it tied up for 4 weeks. This is more related to my personal setup and preference. I like to get my fermenter out of the kegerator quickly, and get it back into the business of dispensing beer.

Thanks for the tips on filtering too! Sounds like a lesson I'm glad I didn't have to learn the hard way. I'm wondering though, if the whole system was pressurized, if it would really foam. Kind of like the bottling from a keg setup. Because everything is pressurized, you're able to transfer carbonated beer without foaming. I've done this several times with no problem. Seems like crazy foamage would require nucleation points as well as low pressure for a driving force.

Any "absolutely do not try this method, you'll ruin your beer and your wife will leave you" type comments?

 

[BendBrewer]

It'd be a foamy mess. The co2 would leap out of solution as soon as it hit the filter pad, i'd think.

Almost all Micros filter carbonated beer. They ferment to almost completion and cap the fermenter to start the carbing process. Normal for it to get to 2 units before pumping out of the fermenter.

 

[str8wire]

This was posted last week somewhere
www.terifahrendorf.com/Closed-Pressurized-Fermenatation.pdf

 

[Chemiker]

This was posted last week somewhere
www.terifahrendorf.com/Closed-Pressurized-Fermenatation.pdf

Thank you so much for this - it's exactly what I was looking for. I'm going to take the extra step too and do it more like his method, so that my process is only two steps. My proposed method used my old non-pressurized fermenter, but by using a keg I avoid the secondaries altogether.

Thanks again! I'll post up the results (good or bad...)

 

[PVH]

I did this once with a hefe. You have a lot of leeway on the carb level, so I gave it a whirl. There was a truly staggering amount of yeast in the keg when it carbed up.

 

[Chemiker]

Finally got around to trying this (marathon training has seriously cut into my brewing/drinking time LOL). It worked beautifully! So, here's what I ended up doing:

Ferment like normal in my plastic fermenter
Siphon transfer into two kegs after complete fermentation (plus a couple extra days).
Carb up to 24psi
Let clear at room temp
Transfer and filter into serving kegs

The filter I used is a GE "Household sediment filtration unit", $17.99 at Home Depot. I put a 30 micron filter in it, $9.99 for a 2 pack at Home Depot. Then I plumbed it with regular 1/4" vinyl tubing and corny connectors at each end. The filter housing takes 3/4" connectors, so I bought 3/4" thread to 1/4" barb nylon connectors from US plastic.

When I filtered, I did "out" to "out" to fill from the bottom and minimize foaming. I filled two kegs, at about 20 minutes each, with no sign of foaming. The way I prevented foaming is to pressurize your serving keg before you start, and bleed the gas slowly to keep the flow going. Best thing to do is wedge a screwdriver in the ring of your pressure relief to bleed slowly, and RDWHAHB. I ended up doing the whole thing at 10psi. Don't know if that's ideal, but it worked well for me. Flow is regulated by the pressure differential between the two kegs, not by total pressure of the system.

 

[Chemiker]

So I guess the real payoff for me is to save a carbonation step, the beer is ready to go right now, with no priming or additional force carbonation. Next I'll buy some cornys and fit them for fermentation, so that I can do something more like str8wire posted, and save even more steps!

 

[Flomaster]

how many weeks from grain to keg does your process take?

I hear leaving on primary for 4 weeks then transferring to keg will get you very clear, very clean, beer. and you only go from primary to severing keg. less vessels to clean less time involved.

am I missing some thing?

EDIT: I guess the beer is already carbonated when transferring to serving keg

 

[Chemiker]

how many weeks from grain to keg does your process take?

I hear leaving on primary for 4 weeks then transferring to keg will get you very clear, very clean, beer. and you only go from primary to severing keg. less vessels to clean less time involved.

am I missing some thing?

EDIT: I guess the beer is already carbonated when transferring to serving keg

8 weeks for this batch. Doesn't have to be that long, I just got busy and couldn't get to it till last night.

I'm not trying to save time necessarily anyway, just a matter of convenience for me. Kegs are easier to move around than my 10gal fermenter and carboys, and I can backfill with CO2 to minimize oxygen exposure. And, like you pointed out, the beer is already carbonated.

I'm going to start fermenting in modified kegs too, to have the beer carbonate at the end of fermentation. At the end of the day, this is just another way to brew beer though, not superior to any other method that produces great beer. Just convenient for me

 

[ksbrain]

Probably out of turn here, but you should get a different fridge for fermenting in. I could not deal with not serving beer while fermenting. I always have some on tap and I always have some in fermenters. Get a cheap/free fridge on craigslist or something and set yourself up with a fermenting fridge separate from the serving fridge.

Just my two cents.

 

[Chemiker]

Probably out of turn here, but you should get a different fridge for fermenting in. I could not deal with not serving beer while fermenting. I always have some on tap and I always have some in fermenters. Get a cheap/free fridge on craigslist or something and set yourself up with a fermenting fridge separate from the serving fridge.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for the tip, that's totally in the plan! Just as soon as I can find space in the garage...